Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 1:12:06 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
I would like to declare that from now on, because outofhabit feels that words were not properly defined in the english language, I will be writing my own dictionary as well.  Many words will simply mean something else, because I feel like it.  Starting.....  Now.

Banana John for paper mullet, Tuesday?

Fishbone,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to outofhabit)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 1:31:38 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

The OP clearly knows what Trans means. Really what difference does it make how or where they make the identity option available. It fits just fine in the gender slot as far as I am concerned. In fact it seems the most logical place to make the distinction available.

In Leather

Archer


I agree. I have no issue with Trans being used as a gender.

As for the OP, welcome to the forums. I hope you find some other FTMs here, I'd be shocked if you didn't...but whether they visit these forums or not, that might be another question. Sadly, I know many might question how welcome they would be.

Maybe, sometime in the near future, sites like Collarme will consider having MTF and FTM as a gender choice, as well as male, female, female couple, male couple, trans...

Hmmm. Imagine, we used to think there were only two genders! ::giggles:: Bless Diversity!! Keeps the world an interesting place.

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 1:48:27 PM   
outofhabit


Posts: 22
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

I would like to declare that from now on, because outofhabit feels that words were not properly defined in the english language, I will be writing my own dictionary as well.  Many words will simply mean something else, because I feel like it.  Starting.....  Now.



Completely disregarding that 1) I agreed with one of the definitions and 2) that such distinctions are made by many communities already; that I didn't simply make up these definitions, but that I've seen them used in liberal/progressive/radical activist circles, some religious circles, the GLBTQIA communities, some leather/BDSM communities, etc, etc...

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 1:51:07 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: outofhabit

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

That's because sex is a shorter word and fits on the form better.


I doubt that. Increasingly I've seen large groups that ask for sex use "gender" instead of sex (almost exclusively inaccurately).


I've been designing forms for a very long time.  It really depends on how much space is allowed, what is aesthetically pleasing to the eye and the standpoint from which the form is being designed.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with the specific words.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to outofhabit)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 1:56:04 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: outofhabit

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

2 a : SEX <the feminine gender> b : the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

How you personally identify your gender is up to you, but gender is sex.



The second definition I would agree is a definition of gender, but while it is related to sex it is still not sex.




quote:

ORIGINAL: outofhabit

Completely disregarding that 1) I agreed with one of the definitions and 2) that such distinctions are made by many communities already; that I didn't simply make up these definitions, but that I've seen them used in liberal/progressive/radical activist circles, some religious circles, the GLBTQIA communities, some leather/BDSM communities, etc, etc...



So you agreed that the definition of sex, as per dictionary (I would assume) is that of gender, as per you, but claim that they are not the same.  You may call that logic, I call it Blerbyspanking.  I'm not a big fan of semantics, but feastie has a point.

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to outofhabit)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 2:10:11 PM   
outofhabit


Posts: 22
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

quote:

ORIGINAL: outofhabit

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

2 a : SEX <the feminine gender> b : the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

How you personally identify your gender is up to you, but gender is sex.



The second definition I would agree is a definition of gender, but while it is related to sex it is still not sex.




quote:

ORIGINAL: outofhabit

Completely disregarding that 1) I agreed with one of the definitions and 2) that such distinctions are made by many communities already; that I didn't simply make up these definitions, but that I've seen them used in liberal/progressive/radical activist circles, some religious circles, the GLBTQIA communities, some leather/BDSM communities, etc, etc...



So you agreed that the definition of sex, as per dictionary (I would assume) is that of gender, as per you, but claim that they are not the same.  You may call that logic, I call it Blerbyspanking.  I'm not a big fan of semantics, but feastie has a point.

Yours,


benji

No, I agree with a definition that defines gender as the behavioral, social, or psychological characteristics typically *associated* with a sex...Santa is associated with Christmas but Santa isn't Christmas.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 2:27:51 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: outofhabit

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

2 a : SEX <the feminine gender> b : the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex



No, I agree with a definition that defines gender as the behavioral, social, or psychological characteristics typically *associated* with a sex...Santa is associated with Christmas but Santa isn't Christmas.



Right, which is the definition of sex, according to the above.  I agree with the definition of monkey that defines it as a small, round fruit similar to an apple, that doesn't make it the right definition.

But at the end of the day, you can have whatever classes you want under whatever title.  If someone wants to classify themselves differently, that is their choice.  However, that does not mean that the rest of the world must change their views to match yours.

Tolerance and acceptance is great, having an assortment of little used options does not necessarily benefit the whole.  You will always have advocates of adding more, and some groups will always feel left out.  You can write in the text portion of your profile how exactly you define yourself.

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to outofhabit)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 2:35:09 PM   
MsMacComb


Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

I am open for suggestion if you have a better word.
 

I have one. How about proclivity.

NOUN:
pl. pro·cliv·i·ties

A natural propensity or inclination; predisposition.

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to Wulfchyld)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 4:27:40 PM   
mellian


Posts: 211
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful]

I agree. I have no issue with Trans being used as a gender.


Of course the cisgendered will not have issues with it as after all, they are not trans and not something they have to deal with. :rolleyes:

-mellian

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 4:34:06 PM   
mellian


Posts: 211
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

So you agreed that the definition of sex, as per dictionary (I would assume) is that of gender, as per you, but claim that they are not the same.  You may call that logic, I call it Blerbyspanking.  I'm not a big fan of semantics, but feastie has a point.


Sex = Biology
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sex  

Gender = Social, Cultural, and Psychological
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gender

Read the overall definations and not just single parts. You not agreeing goes against reality and the world.

-mellian

< Message edited by mellian -- 5/29/2006 4:36:15 PM >

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 4:37:36 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mellian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful]

I agree. I have no issue with Trans being used as a gender.


Of course the cisgendered will not have issues with it as after all, they are not trans and not something they have to deal with. :rolleyes:

-mellian



Cisgendered? Sorry, I'm unfamilar with that term.

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to mellian)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 4:42:32 PM   
mellian


Posts: 211
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful
Cisgendered? Sorry, I'm unfamilar with that term.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

-mellian

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 4:45:19 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
Okay, had a moment to look up the term...

Personally, if the sites wish to add cisgendered to the list, I'd have no issue with it at all. I don't take labels that seriously. If I'm interested in a person I'd rather just get to know them, and I'll base my judgement on that, not on a label.

As long as there is freedom to leave a box unchecked, or to add some text, people aren't really being forced to accept a label.

May I ask why you feel a transgendered person would have an issue with a checkbox for trans as one of many options?

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 4:48:43 PM   
mellian


Posts: 211
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinfu

May I ask why you feel a transgendered person would have an issue with a checkbox for trans as one of many options?



I have no issue having a checkbox or trans, despite personally prefering to select it, it is the problem of adding "trans" as option for gender which is inaccurate.

-mellian

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 4:55:34 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
By saying a cisgendered person would have no issue with it, that implied to me that you were saying a transgendered person might have issues with it. (And it's highly likely some will, humans being what we are.) I still support it as an option for those who would like to check it.

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to mellian)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 5:08:42 PM   
BrazenBitch


Posts: 17
Joined: 9/11/2004
Status: offline
Gender vs Sex - an interesting and very old discussion. If someone feels that they are female, despite being born with male genitalia or that they are male, despite being born with female genitalia - ok, can't argue with that. Everyone decides for themselves who they are or want to be. It gets a bit trickier when others come into the mix. Then it is not so simple.

What should be the reaction of a man who was born with male genitalia and believes he is a man and who prefers women for romantic partners but finds out the woman he is dating has male genitalia? Should he feel deceived or should he try to be 'big' about it and not think he has been lied to? And what about the woman who was born with female genitalia and believes she is a woman and identifies as a lesbian? Should she feel lied to and deceived when she discovers the woman she has been seeing has male genitalia or should she just overlook that and try to be 'open-minded'?

And it's not just the genitalia, you know, that makes you who you are. How you were raised makes a difference too. What happens to you from birth to about age 7 still has an impact. I'm talking about socialization. Were you raised male but identify as female? Were you raised female but identify as male? And what if you were treated as the gender you appeared to be, but don't feel that you are for 20 or 30 years? If you think it does not make a difference, I'd say that in fact it does.

I am acquainted with a number of people who identify as M2F and F2M - some have had surgery, and some don't ever plan to do so, although they live as the gender they believe they are, and how they refer to themselves varies from person to person as does how and when - and even if - they let potential romantic partners know their 'situation'.

I know one person who has breasts and a penis, and has no plans to make further changes. She says she is female and she looks like a beauty queen. You'd never know what is below the waist unless you looked or touched. Her long-term boyfriend is bisexual and it works out just great for them, probably especially for him since he was always worried about people knowing he had a bit of a thing for boys, once of those super macho types who has a bit of denial going on, but he treats her very well, and they are both very happy with their relationship.

I even know one person who was born male, has had all the surgery and lives as female and never tells anyone about her past. Now, as it happens, she's slim and not that tall for a woman, and she paid for some most exellent assets. Between that, and having small hands and feet (although kind of wide) and the gym and the beauty parlour, plus her now all-done feminization lessons, there's no way to know that she was born physically a boy. She doesn't tell people, and no one can tell, not even with her clothes off.

Now, on a very personal level, I strongly prefer my partners to be born female and to identify as female. I've tried being more open and flexible - I've dated both M2F and F2M people - but it just doesn't work for me on an emotional level, no more than it works for me with 'standard' men. And I really liked the girl who ended up deciding she was a male. I do try to be respectful of people's differences, but I do know what works for me on a romantic/sexual level, and it is just not a woman who was once physically a boy, or still is.

I think that people who are not the gender they seemed to be at birth should be respected, and I also think that they should be respectful of others. Tell the truth if you care about someone. Hoping they will get to like you first, and that it won't make a difference is just not how people are, for the most part. Not all surprises are good ones. Eventually, you'll meet someone who is right for you, and a relationship that starts with honesty has a better chance of being successful than one that does not.

< Message edited by BrazenBitch -- 5/29/2006 5:17:31 PM >

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 5:55:07 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
 
Hello A/all,

This thread puzzles me for some reason.

I have talked about my tendency to wear green name tags at munches because if somebody wants to know how I identify, I imagine they can simply ask.

In a perfect world, a person born as gender X with the wrong plumbing installed, could simply share this with other people and be accepted and loved and respected for who they are.

But then we get in to elements of homophobia and discrimination on the basis of a person's sexuality / self identity.  Person Y logs in, chats with person X who honestly claims on their profile to be female.  Person Y and person X meet up, Person Y discovers the plumbing incompatibility, and immediately gets outraged by person X lying to them about their gender.

Person X was not lying.  They live their lives as a gender that their chromosomal makeup did not give them.

Sure, modify the profiles to allow people to put trans, cd, etc., on it.  I dont think it will make the murky waters of human sexuality and/or bdsm any clearer.  I dont think it will prevent mistakes and sexual bigotry.

My own personal approach, since I only want my own Mr. Tiny in the room when Im having sex, is to ask.  Being untruthful (somebody lying and saying they dont have an XY chromosomal makeup and their own Mr. Tiny) with a potential partner is it's own set of issues that have nothing to do with gender configuration.

Just me, yadda yadda yadda

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 8:43:01 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

I am open for suggestion if you have a better word.
 

I have one. How about proclivity.

NOUN:
pl. pro·cliv·i·ties

A natural propensity or inclination; predisposition.


That was actually in my first post on this thread, apparently it did not sit well.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


(in reply to MsMacComb)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 9:52:35 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
I'm sure she knew that already.  She's just being her usual charming self.  Perhaps if you see a more complete definition of the word, you'll see why it didn't sit well:

an inclination or predisposition toward something; especially : a strong inherent inclination toward something objectionable

If you truly think it's objectionable, it's not really something you can claim to welcome, can you?

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Wulfchyld)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles - 5/29/2006 10:21:27 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline
Stef, often you are a wealth of information. However your truculent nature belies your credibility. As your many posts stand as testament. Now before you switch hats and tear up this post, consider a new profile and tip the scales in favor of ruminatively helpful as opposed to rashly belligerent.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Trans as a Gender on Profiles Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078