RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (Full Version)

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tj444 -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 9:18:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Sure, folks want jobs, good jobs, and they would be good jobs, but at what cost to the US?   We don't need that dirty fuckin shit here, adding more poisons to our environment, and it isn't going to drop oil prices.

I never thought the exercise was about dropping oil prices.. from a govt perspective, I thought it was about jobs and the tax revenue those jobs and spin-offs create..

Poison-wise, how is this oil any different from US produced oil?




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 9:22:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Sure, folks want jobs, good jobs, and they would be good jobs, but at what cost to the US?   We don't need that dirty fuckin shit here, adding more poisons to our environment, and it isn't going to drop oil prices.

I never thought the exercise was about dropping oil prices.. from a govt perspective, I thought it was about jobs and the tax revenue those jobs and spin-offs create..

Poison-wise, how is this oil any different from US produced oil?


It doesnt matter. If its not sold to us it will be sold and burned somewhere else. It wont do a fucking thing to the environment. And the suggestion that it wont impact oil prices is the kind of stupidity he's on ignore for.




cuckoldmepls -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 9:23:55 AM)

Democrats didn't just do that with Obamacare, they've done it with every defense spending bill that has ever come up since they've been in charge.

So don't give us this crap that republicans should not resort to the same tactics.

By the way, Oil is the lifeblood of this country, and trying to choke it off is exactly the same as causing a slow death to this nation. Until they start building some nuclear power plants, we realy have no alternative. The wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine, so this idea that we can use 100% green energy is ridiculous




Lucylastic -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 9:24:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/dec/08/murray-urges-gop-to-extend-tax-break-senate-reject/

Not sure how repubs can sleep at night, over this. If nothing else, this shows who they truly work for. The tax cut extension should be decided on it's own merits, and the pipeline issue should be decided on it's own merits ( or lack thereof).


When the moron in the Whitehouse is more worried about his reelection than creating 20,000 jobs at zero cost thats what happens. And its not a tax cut. Its a tax deferral. Social Security is undefunded, remember?


Well, as a rat-poison republican, you are not telling the whole story, but that is obvious from the get go. 

And, as a kool-aid dependent Obama minion, you can't handle the facts/truth so you attack the charactor of the messenger(s) thereof.



so attacking the messenger is against the rules until you do it?

ok I get that[8|]




mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 9:26:07 AM)

Well, it will cause them to increase, there mr laffer curve, I didn't say it wouldn't affect prices, I said it wouldn't DROP them.

Learn to fucking read.




cuckoldmepls -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 9:28:25 AM)

I will say this though. Technically every issue in Congress should be voted on separately. A lot of bad stuff gets through because it's included with something important like paying the troops.




tj444 -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 9:31:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
It doesnt matter. If its not sold to us it will be sold and burned somewhere else. It wont do a fucking thing to the environment. And the suggestion that it wont impact oil prices is the kind of stupidity he's on ignore for.

Yes indeed...
I read not long ago that about 25% of the pollution that hangs over Los Angeles is from China.. (cough, cough)
here it is..
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/weekinreview/30yardley.html?ex=1139029200&en=dd7facd8a60b696c&ei=5070




mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 9:34:53 AM)

Well I suppose that holds true for Afghani heroin, right?

Any bills on that running thru the congress?




tj444 -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 9:40:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Well I suppose that holds true for Afghani heroin, right?

Any bills on that running thru the congress?

Now you are just being obtuse.. [:D]

You have not explained how US oil pumped thru pipelines or by tanker truck is any different from this oil, poison-wise.. I would think the same risks exist with all oil..




mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 9:45:21 AM)

Why don't you hunt up what is different?  Nothing at all obtuse about it.  

You want to put people to work there is a severe housing shortage out in the Bakken fields, that is causing us to not be able to get out our own production as fast as we want.

Lotsa stuff to do there.  




tj444 -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 9:57:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Why don't you hunt up what is different?  Nothing at all obtuse about it.  

You want to put people to work there is a severe housing shortage out in the Bakken fields, that is causing us to not be able to get out our own production as fast as we want.

Lotsa stuff to do there.  

sure there are jobs there, but still not jobs for every unemployed person in the US... and its debatable exactly how much it will produce.. time will tell on that..

you are still skirting around the poison thing tho..




mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 10:00:06 AM)

No, I am not.  I told you look it up. There ain't jobs for every unemployed in the US on this pipeline either, or the ratpoison bills.  So let's not run around conflating that.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 10:01:16 AM)

When I was growing up, there was a similar issue; it was referred to as "The Alaskan Pipeline". I don't know what the cost would be in today's numbers but I am confident in guessing that it could be referred to as a "multi-Billion dollar boondoggle".

It seemed okay to the casual observer. It was going to create jobs. It was going to end or greatly reduce our dependence on OPEC. In fact, we were going to be able to export product from Alaska and make ourselves a few sheckles.

Well, to be fair; it did create quite a few temporary jobs. Once the construction was finished, more than 2/3 of the male workers left to do other construction products. I specified "male" because all the prostitutes that had been brought in to "service" the large influx of "new jobs" stayed there to settle down into some form of domesticity with the oil riggers, etc. who did stay.

All of that's fine. The biggest issue is that after all that money spent and all of that wilderness destroyed, it turns out that the crude oil we're getting is not a high enough grade to be refined into anything other than Grade 2 Deisel fuel (Home heating oil for those of you in Poughkeepsie).

Does it help? Surely, with the rise in fuel costs, the last 8 years we heard stories of people not being able to heat their homes. Of course it helps; the oil companies who control the oil fields and rigs and who sell that oil to other nations because they can make a higher profit by doing so than by selling it here, in the states.

Am I against the Canadian pipeline? I don't know. I haven't done enough research on it but my guess is that we'll find the same quality of crude oil in Canadia as we did in Alaska and to be brutally honest: it is sounding like I heard these same arguments, forty years ago.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

Edited because I swear to the Great Creator that I know how to spell "oil"




tj444 -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 10:15:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Am I against the Canadian pipeline? I don't know. I haven't done enough research on it but my guess is that we'll find the same quality of crude oil in Canadia as we did in Alaska and to be brutally honest: it is sounding like I heard these same arguments, forty years ago.
Peace and comfort,
Michael
Edited because I swear to the Great Creator that I know how to spell "oil"[/color]

well,.. the US has been getting oil from those oil sands for several decades now.. if it was shit you wouldnt be buying it and Alberta wouldnt be one of if not the best place in north america for jobs and one of the lowest taxed in Canada..




tj444 -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 10:20:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, I am not.  I told you look it up. There ain't jobs for every unemployed in the US on this pipeline either, or the ratpoison bills.  So let's not run around conflating that.

I never said there would be 100% employment from the pipeline either,..

its not that issue i have been asking for an answer to.. I want to know why you feel this oil is any worse, poison-wise, than compared to oil produced in your US.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 10:20:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

When I was growing up, there was a similar issue; it was referred to as "The Alaskan Pipeline". I don't know what the cost would be in today's numbers but I am confident in guessing that it could be referred to as a "multi-Billion dollar boondoggle".

It seemed okay to the casual observer. It was going to create jobs. It was going to end or greatly reduce our dependence on OPEC. In fact, we were going to be able to export product from Alaska and make ourselves a few sheckles.

Well, to be fair; it did create quite a few temporary jobs. Once the construction was finished, more than 2/3 of the male workers left to do other construction products. I specified "male" because all the prostitutes that had been brought in to "service" the large influx of "new jobs" stayed there to settle down into some form of domesticity with the oil riggers, etc. who did stay.

All of that's fine. The biggest issue is that after all that money spent and all of that wilderness destroyed, it turns out that the crude oil we're getting is not a high enough grade to be refined into anything other than Grade 2 Deisel fuel (Home heating oil for those of you in Poughkeepsie).

Does it help? Surely, with the rise in fuel costs, the last 8 years we heard stories of people not being able to heat their homes. Of course it helps; the oil companies who control the oil fields and rigs and who sell that oil to other nations because they can make a higher profit by doing so than by selling it here, in the states.

Am I against the Canadian pipeline? I don't know. I haven't done enough research on it but my guess is that we'll find the same quality of crude oil in Canadia as we did in Alaska and to be brutally honest: it is sounding like I heard these same arguments, forty years ago.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

Edited because I swear to the Great Creator that I know how to spell "oil"



16 billion barrels of oil made accessible is hardly a boondoggle.
11% of the oil produced in the US is hardly a boondoggle. (Closer to 17% during the suspension of Gulf production)
2000 well paying jobs (not to mention the spinoff jobs) is hardly a boondoggle.

It is a myth that the crude is of a quality that can only produce diesel fuel. Alaskan oil covers the same range of quality as any other field and produces diesel, gasoline and light petroleum products. The average specific gravity of oil through the pipeline is nearly 30, the upper end of intermediate. Its a bit more sour than West Texas and Brent oil but lower than many oil fields.

Other than that you nailed it.




mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 10:22:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, I am not.  I told you look it up. There ain't jobs for every unemployed in the US on this pipeline either, or the ratpoison bills.  So let's not run around conflating that.

I never said there would be 100% employment from the pipeline either,..

its not that issue i have been asking for an answer to.. I want to know why you feel this oil is any worse, poison-wise, than compared to oil produced in your US.


https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Oil_sands

Thats a big reason there.




popeye1250 -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 10:26:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/dec/08/murray-urges-gop-to-extend-tax-break-senate-reject/

Not sure how repubs can sleep at night, over this. If nothing else, this shows who they truly work for. The tax cut extension should be decided on it's own merits, and the pipeline issue should be decided on it's own merits ( or lack thereof).


When the moron in the Whitehouse is more worried about his reelection than creating 20,000 jobs at zero cost thats what happens. And its not a tax cut. Its a tax deferral. Social Security is undefunded, remember?


I don't know where they get that "162 i.q." stuff (his supporters) as though people are supposed to look past all his faults, inadequacies, etc because he's,......."smart."
Maybe from all his college friends? Oh wait..... he didn't have any.
Why do they feel the need to have to "tell" us how "smart" he is?
When someone "tells" you that they're "cool" they aren't.
And now they try to tell us that "un-employment" is down to 8.5% when the "U-6" tells us that the "real" rate of un-employment is 18%.




mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 10:30:58 AM)

Murray is a woman.   Sobering thoughts.




tj444 -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 10:54:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Oil_sands

Thats a big reason there.

all oil production causes damage, there is debate in the US on fraking and various other ways of extracting fossil fuels.. but ignoring that.. lets say the oil sands shut down entirely tomorrow.. what would you replace 2,324,000 barrels/day with?

Oil imports to the US




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