RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline

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mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 11:07:28 AM)
lets say that you stuck yourself in the tonsils with a fork while eating mashed potatoes and bled to death. now what does that or your hypothetical have to do with this pipeline (1)? and separately, its inclusion into a payroll tax cut extension (2).? No discussion has been undertaken about eliminating or reducing the oil sands we already get here from canada. Eliding the point is not the point.

tj444 -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 11:12:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail lets say that you stuck yourself in the tonsils with a fork while eating mashed potatoes and bled to death. now what does that or your hypothetical have to do with this pipeline (1)? and separately, its inclusion into a payroll tax cut extension (2).? No discussion has been undertaken about eliminating or reducing the oil sands we already get here from canada. Eliding the point is not the point. the point is.. the US needs the oil (all it can get) from a reliable friendly source and it needs the jobs and the tax revenue from the jobs and the spin-offs.. but hey, as i have said before.. those jobs can stay in Canada/Alberta and the oil sold to China instead..

mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 11:17:59 AM)
Well, no it doesn't ... there is no shortage of oil here, no lines, no OMFG we'll all be killed.... as I have stated many times, we got the Bakken find, and only about 1/4 of the land under oil lease here is or has been drilled, and when push comes to shove you will sell as much as you can to China when they pony up the bucks, something they have more of than we, so that dog ain't hunting. Show me credible citations on the jobs (number, length, stability and so on) this would bring against the offset of the environment, loading money into canada we should be loading here, and so on. No compelling arguments for that line here yet.

slvemike4u -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 11:30:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Obama care can be repealed, if it turns out not to be workable. This pipeline, once built, will be a security and environmental disaster forever. Zero cost? Are you out of your mind, Wilbur? Surely this is a rhetorical question,no?

tj444 -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 11:31:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well, no it doesn't ... there is no shortage of oil here, no lines, no OMFG we'll all be killed.... as I have stated many times, we got the Bakken find, and only about 1/4 of the land under oil lease here is or has been drilled, and when push comes to shove you will sell as much as you can to China when they pony up the bucks, something they have more of than we, so that dog ain't hunting. Show me credible citations on the jobs (number, length, stability and so on) this would bring against the offset of the environment, loading money into canada we should be loading here, and so on. No compelling arguments for that line here yet. I said before, there different opinions on how much oil there actually is in the Bakken field, it depends on who you listen to and their stats (& who is manipulating them). I guess it doesnt matter who you vote for, neither party seems to see it your way or they would have killed the pipeline long ago and there wouldnt be a severe US unemployment problem as everyone would be in ND..

mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 11:39:07 AM)
That isn't anywhere near what I said, nor is it anywhere near the reality, but there is oil in the Bakken find (I have royalty checks to prove it) and my understanding is that if say 30 years from now, we decide we want your oil, you will still have millions and millions of barrels for sale. So, no skin offa anyones ass yet. And there has been no credible numbers about jobs. You made me do my bit, now thats at least twice I have asked you for proof of this rather than some emotionally based feeling that it must be true....

tazzygirl -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 11:43:11 AM)
Good luck on that one.

mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 11:50:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail as I have stated many times, we got the Bakken find, and only about 1/4 of the land under oil lease here is or has been drilled, I said before, there different opinions on how much oil there actually is in the Bakken field, it depends on who you listen to and their stats (& who is manipulating them). This little bit here, upon reading it again, I think you misunderstood my point, because I didn't do a really good job saying what I said. Only one fourth of the land leased for oil exploration in the United States has ever been drilled. In other words, there is alot of Oil Land here laying fallow, I am a proponent of use it or lose it. It was not meant to say that only a quarter of the Bakken has been found. Seriously, I can see how you misunderstood, and if I followed the reasoning of your answer snip, you did.

tj444 -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 12:42:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail as I have stated many times, we got the Bakken find, and only about 1/4 of the land under oil lease here is or has been drilled, I said before, there different opinions on how much oil there actually is in the Bakken field, it depends on who you listen to and their stats (& who is manipulating them). This little bit here, upon reading it again, I think you misunderstood my point, because I didn't do a really good job saying what I said. Only one fourth of the land leased for oil exploration in the United States has ever been drilled. In other words, there is alot of Oil Land here laying fallow, I am a proponent of use it or lose it. It was not meant to say that only a quarter of the Bakken has been found. Seriously, I can see how you misunderstood, and if I followed the reasoning of your answer snip, you did. yes, I did take it that way. And yes, I am aware of your royalty checks (you posted a while back about your father buying shares or something, if i recall correctly). On the contrary, i am not emotional about it.. just there are miles of pipelines in the US already, there are disagreements about how various methods do damage, etc.. I just wanted to know what damage you were concerned about (most imo is done in Alberta itself).. Sure, 30 years from now, you could buy Alberta's oil,.. the question is, at what price? I tend to think a little differently.. imo, the US would be better off using the oil from the rest of the world and then when those sources are depleted (or perhaps when the price gets waaay too high), that imo would be the time to develop your own.. That would be my view if I were an (patriotic? [:D]) American and thinking solely of strategy.. But I dont have shares that give me royalties so no financial bias in that respect.. (I did not even get one of the payouts from Alberta's heritage fund [:(])

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 12:53:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail as I have stated many times, we got the Bakken find, and only about 1/4 of the land under oil lease here is or has been drilled, I said before, there different opinions on how much oil there actually is in the Bakken field, it depends on who you listen to and their stats (& who is manipulating them). This little bit here, upon reading it again, I think you misunderstood my point, because I didn't do a really good job saying what I said. Only one fourth of the land leased for oil exploration in the United States has ever been drilled. In other words, there is alot of Oil Land here laying fallow, I am a proponent of use it or lose it. It was not meant to say that only a quarter of the Bakken has been found. Seriously, I can see how you misunderstood, and if I followed the reasoning of your answer snip, you did. yes, I did take it that way. And yes, I am aware of your royalty checks (you posted a while back about your father buying shares or something, if i recall correctly). On the contrary, i am not emotional about it.. just there are miles of pipelines in the US already, there are disagreements about how various methods do damage, etc.. I just wanted to know what damage you were concerned about (most imo is done in Alberta itself).. Sure, 30 years from now, you could buy Alberta's oil,.. the question is, at what price? I tend to think a little differently.. imo, the US would be better off using the oil from the rest of the world and then when those sources are depleted (or perhaps when the price gets waaay too high), that imo would be the time to develop your own.. That would be my view if I were an (patriotic? [:D]) American and thinking solely of strategy.. But I dont have shares that give me royalties so no financial bias in that respect.. (I did not even get one of the payouts from Alberta's heritage fund [:(]) his 1/4 of leased land being drilled is bullshit also. It takes years of lead time to prepare a field to be developed and they get tied up even longer in environmental studies/lawsuits/restudies/new lawsuits. If new leases arent continually being secured it guarantees a gap when the reserves in producing fields are depleted.

mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 1:37:05 PM)
Yeah, don't bother with wilburs bullshit, hes clueless as well as uninformed, hes pretending he knows stuff all the time, but is easily proven wrong. The lead times havent got shit to do with anything. Hes heard of and ignores use it or lose it, not a new idea. Been brought up every congress since I have been a small child. You can fast track oil wells in this country. Out in the Bakken it takes about 1 year start of plot to finish, and they are doing it every day. Never ask an itinerant insurance peddler about actual how stuff is, they only know whats in the life insurance sales blurbs from the home office that they euphemistically moniker retirement plans. here is how easy the lies are to refute, this is a quickie, you can find out for yourselves that this is not anecdotal: http://www.mineralweb.com/2011/07/news/marcellus-shale-well-permits-take-how-long/

MrRodgers -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 2:09:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail as I have stated many times, we got the Bakken find, and only about 1/4 of the land under oil lease here is or has been drilled, I said before, there different opinions on how much oil there actually is in the Bakken field, it depends on who you listen to and their stats (& who is manipulating them). This little bit here, upon reading it again, I think you misunderstood my point, because I didn't do a really good job saying what I said. Only one fourth of the land leased for oil exploration in the United States has ever been drilled. In other words, there is alot of Oil Land here laying fallow, I am a proponent of use it or lose it. It was not meant to say that only a quarter of the Bakken has been found. Seriously, I can see how you misunderstood, and if I followed the reasoning of your answer snip, you did. yes, I did take it that way. And yes, I am aware of your royalty checks (you posted a while back about your father buying shares or something, if i recall correctly). On the contrary, i am not emotional about it.. just there are miles of pipelines in the US already, there are disagreements about how various methods do damage, etc.. I just wanted to know what damage you were concerned about (most imo is done in Alberta itself).. Sure, 30 years from now, you could buy Alberta's oil,.. the question is, at what price? I tend to think a little differently.. imo, the US would be better off using the oil from the rest of the world and then when those sources are depleted (or perhaps when the price gets waaay too high), that imo would be the time to develop your own.. That would be my view if I were an (patriotic? [:D]) American and thinking solely of strategy.. But I dont have shares that give me royalties so no financial bias in that respect.. (I did not even get one of the payouts from Alberta's heritage fund [:(]) his 1/4 of leased land being drilled is bullshit also. It takes years of lead time to prepare a field to be developed and they get tied up even longer in environmental studies/lawsuits/restudies/new lawsuits. If new leases arent continually being secured it guarantees a gap when the reserves in producing fields are depleted. As usual buying the API line ? The oil industry has over 40 million acres under lease protection and they are not developing 10's of million acres...just on the gulf coast now. Not counting the millions of other ares undeveloped or underdeveloped. All the oil cos. want is to add those leases to the books and have no intention of developing them until they must and who knows when that will be when they make billions as brokers & refiners.. The pipeline is a few hundred temporary jobs and at what costs.

thompsonx -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 2:13:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy When the moron in the Whitehouse is more worried about his reelection than creating 20,000 jobs at zero cost thats what happens. When the recent unemployment figgures came out you said that 80,000 new jobs was not worth noting now it seems that 20,000 jobs is some sort of big deal. Do you ever read he things you posts??? or do you just post what ever drains out of your ass at any given time?

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 2:17:46 PM)
While I think the pipeline is a huge fucking mistake, the point of my post was to express amazement the repubs would be willing to sacrifice a tax extension that the middle class of this country desperately needs, just to have their way on the pipeline. I find that kind of thinking absolutely sickening.

thompsonx -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 2:19:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls By the way, Oil is the lifeblood of this country, and trying to choke it off is exactly the same as causing a slow death to this nation. Is there anything you would not do for oil? Until they start building some nuclear power plants, we realy have no alternative. Have you developed a way to deal with the toxic waste from those plants? The wind doesn't always blow Where the wind blows it blows consistantly. and the sun doesn't always shine, Not sure where you live but on the planet we live on it does. so this idea that we can use 100% green energy is ridiculous Perhaps if you were to disabuse yourself of your ignorance that wind and solar are the only green sources of energy your post would not be so rediculous.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 2:20:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet While I think the pipeline is a huge fucking mistake, the point of my post was to express amazement the repubs would be willing to sacrifice a tax extension that the middle class of this country desperately needs, just to have their way on the pipeline. I find that kind of thinking absolutely sickening. Once again, it isnt a tax cut.

mnottertail -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 2:23:45 PM)
And its rather unextraordinary that she didn't say it was one, so in that regard you agree.

thompsonx -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 2:24:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet While I think the pipeline is a huge fucking mistake, the point of my post was to express amazement the repubs would be willing to sacrifice a tax extension that the middle class of this country desperately needs, just to have their way on the pipeline. I find that kind of thinking absolutely sickening. This sort of politicking is business as usual for those in washington. There are no good guys...they all shit in the same bucket.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 4:55:49 PM)
Your point? Besides that you didn't actually read my post, I mean. quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet While I think the pipeline is a huge fucking mistake, the point of my post was to express amazement the repubs would be willing to sacrifice a tax extension that the middle class of this country desperately needs, just to have their way on the pipeline. I find that kind of thinking absolutely sickening. Once again, it isnt a tax cut.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Repubs hold the middle class hostage over a fucking pipeline (12/12/2011 5:01:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Your point? Besides that you didn't actually read my post, I mean. quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet While I think the pipeline is a huge fucking mistake, the point of my post was to express amazement the repubs would be willing to sacrifice a tax extension that the middle class of this country desperately needs, just to have their way on the pipeline. I find that kind of thinking absolutely sickening. Once again, it isnt a tax cut. I read it. It didnt say anything new and youve never acknowledged that it isnt a tax cut.

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