RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (Full Version)

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SweetCheri -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 8:11:36 AM)

quote:

Woody Allen thought it was...
Who? The guy who is fucking his step-daughter?




tj444 -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 8:15:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
And "ps bro, brandeis is so not a school worth namedropping. "

Woody Allen thought it was...

Sam

omg,.. woody allen? really??? [:'(] [:'(] [:'(]


[image]local://upfiles/965197/98124AE8926C4027B54EFA4E0910E3D7.jpg[/image]




LaTigresse -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 8:15:56 AM)

I assume that was a fast reply gone astray?

Because seriously, I gave up trying to have this discussion with you. I ain't buying what you are selling. It's obvious you have a moral standard about this that I just simply cannot get behind.

Boys will be boys, just doesn't cut it. When my son, at the approximate age the frat guys are, stole a car, he went to jail. The car wasn't hurt, the owner wasn't tramatized.......but he paid the price, as he should have, for his actions. It doesn't matter that he was mentally or emotionally immature for his age. It doesn't matter that his impulse control was not exactly up to par. It doesn't matter that he was planning on taking it back. It doesn't matter that the car was just sitting there, with the keys in it, in an unlocked storage facility begging to be taken for a ride. The facts are, he fucked up, he was punished. He learned to not do it again. I didn't cut him any slack just because I knew he was immature for his age. He had to learn and apparently, my motherly lectures and various other methods, were not enough. He had to suffer more extreme consequences. He did, he learned, he doesn't steal expensive cars anymore. He creates them.




samboct -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 8:28:04 AM)

What- you people never saw Hannah and her Sisters?

Here's the quote..


Holly: Naturally I get taken home first. Well, obviously he prefers April. Of course I was so tongue-tied all night. I can't believe I said that about the Guggenheim,. My stupid rollerskating joke. I should never tell jokes. Mom can tell 'em and Hannah, but I kill 'em.
[Glaring at the offscreen April's back]
Holly: Where did April come up with that stuff about Adolph Loos and terms like "organic form"?
[Looking out to the side window, pausing for a moment]
Holly: Well, naturally. She went to Brandeis. But I don't think she knows what she's talking about. Could you believe the way she was calling him David? "Yes, David. I feel that way, too, David. What a marvelous space, David." I hate April. She's pushy.




FrostedFlake -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 8:39:34 AM)

Sorry this took me so long, Folks.

quote:


Using round numbers- 1,000 people get a letter asking them to take part in a study on rape. Roughly one quarter (I think I have that right) respond. What about the people who didn't respond?


In fact you misread. One half of the land lines called were written to first. The overall participation rate was over 80% meaning 4151 contactees of 22,200 declined for any number of reasons. reasons ranging from don't care thru busy to scared. That is the extent of self selection. 18.7%, not 75%. I suspect the likelihood is the majority of the self selectors are those who got no notice.

quote:

In terms of interviewers- a whopping 18 hours of training...wow...and in 25 minutes, you're going to get enough information to have a lot of faith in it?


I think that, given the task and reasonable personnel selection, 18 hours is sufficient training to enable a/ read and ask questions b/ probe repeatedly to gage the emotional state of the interviewee. And given that people value their time, a half hour is pushing it. Regarding the information sought in so small a window of time, perhaps you would Google "Linda E. Saltzman PhD". This is the person who developed the methodology, unfortunately deceased. She was the lead scientist involved in the early stages of the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. She pioneered improving the consistency of definitions and measurement of intimate partner violence, sexual violence and stalking. Dr. Saltzman spent twenty years on this project. It is not an amateur enterprise.

quote:


The other problem with such a survey is although it's statistically easy to quantify the data, the type of questionnaire approach often misses a lot compared to a less structured interview. Plus, there can be bias based on the survey questions, which I didn't see. Often the design of the question and the language used gives you an idea of the answer the interviewer is looking for- notorious in political polls. People responses vary on whether or not

I know in medicine, that clinical trials for psych meds are being designed in a very sophisticated fashion to be given over to people that are poorly trained (cheap) and that these trials are often deeply flawed- that the person conducting the trial doesn't have the experience to figure out whether the diagnosis was correct, whether the patient was compliant, and whether or not there are any side effects- that type of work used to be done by highly trained individuals, but it was too expensive.

This report has all the hallmarks of a large, cheaply and quickly done, survey that will probably reflect the bias of the survey writer. How do you get someone to trust you with the intimate details of their sex life in less than half an hour?

With all that being said though, there are probably some areas of the report where if the conclusions cannot be fully trusted, due to the biases noted above, the report does provide some interesting looks at the nature of rape.


I think I have already completely refuted everything in that last box. At least, everything in that box which is not completely irrelevant on its' face. Having addressed every point you pointed at me, I am now going to say a few things on my own hook.

I find it interesting that you would use a CDC report to support your argument of bias when nothing you have said about it stands the light of day.You say the statistics are inflated and and the method flawd and that you know this because you are a chemist. It happens that my best friend just two days ago submitted an 800 page audit report to the Pennsylvania department of Ecology. She is the quality control director at a large chemistry lab (and a sub) and has a degree that looks just like yours. She sees nothing wrong with these statistics and methods. It follows that you are very likely not using your doctorate when you make this assertion. But my friend could be wrong, so I should look for more support before I continue, just to remove all doubt.

The first name on the CDC report is Thomas R. Frieden, MD, MPH, Director, Centers for Disease control and Prevention
The second name on the CDC report is Linda C. Degutis, DrPH,MSN, Director National Center for Injury Prevention and Control
The third name on the CDC report is Howard R. Spivak, MD, Director, Division of Violence Prevention
And there is also the names of Black, Basile, Breiding, Smith, Walters, Merrick, Chen, & Stevens

To summariz to this point, I have myself demolished you argument. My friend Dr.J has given me the nod, and I have just named the entire front office of the CDC and their staff. Names you would already know if you had read the document you called flimsy. Names of some of the most eminant Doctors and Sociologists in the country, against whom you must be aware your Chemistry degree avails you nothing.

To turn to what I would like to say, and not for the first time, but directly this time, on this thread several women have said several times to you directly that you frighten them. And they have told you why. And you have pointedly failed to listen. You have instead continued to act in a threatening manner.

I don't like that. I want you to stop it. I want that because a person is only as free as she acts and you are drawing lines in other peoples lives with you obtuse nonsense. Lines made of fear. You are beyond wrong, and I am not arguing. Because you do not have an argument.

This video is something you need to listen to, loud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wTJ3ZdZrBA




BoxwineForBrunch -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 8:47:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

What- you people never saw Hannah and her Sisters?

Here's the quote..


Holly: Naturally I get taken home first. Well, obviously he prefers April. Of course I was so tongue-tied all night. I can't believe I said that about the Guggenheim,. My stupid rollerskating joke. I should never tell jokes. Mom can tell 'em and Hannah, but I kill 'em.
[Glaring at the offscreen April's back]
Holly: Where did April come up with that stuff about Adolph Loos and terms like "organic form"?
[Looking out to the side window, pausing for a moment]
Holly: Well, naturally. She went to Brandeis. But I don't think she knows what she's talking about. Could you believe the way she was calling him David? "Yes, David. I feel that way, too, David. What a marvelous space, David." I hate April. She's pushy.


cool story, dumbass. way to shoehorn in a reference to a movie that was pretty good 100 years ago when people are calling out your facile bullshit in this thread. hey man, do you know when that new pearl jam album is coming out? eddie writes such intense lyrics.

look, frosted flake tore you to shreds. just slink away in shame and choke on your white dude entitlement.




kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 9:08:13 AM)

quote:

But the recent headlines of one in five women will be raped in her lifetime implies that one in five men are rapists. Would you go out on a date with a guy knowing that there's a one in five chance he's a rapist?


Not at all. Like AngelikaJ, I assume rapists are repeat offenders, and studies bear this out. I'm surprised someone with your background would make such an error in logic.

http://www.innovations.harvard.edu/cache/documents/1348/134851.pdf

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124272157

Lisak, at the University of Massachusetts, Boston, set out to find and interview men he calls "undetected rapists." Those are men who've committed sexual assault, but have never been charged or convicted.

He found them by, over a 20-year period, asking some 2,000 men in college questions like this: "Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated [on alcohol or drugs] to resist your sexual advances?"

Or: "Have you ever had sexual intercourse with an adult when they didn't want to because you used physical force [twisting their arm, holding them down, etc.] if they didn't cooperate?"

About 1 in 16 men answered "yes" to these or similar questions.

Profile Of A Rapist

It might seem like it would be hard for a researcher to get these men to admit to something that fits the definition of rape. But Lisak says it's not. "They are very forthcoming," he says. "In fact, they are eager to talk about their experiences. They're quite narcissistic as a group — the offenders — and they view this as an opportunity, essentially, to brag."

What Lisak found was that students who commit rape on a college campus are pretty much like those rapists in prison. In both groups, many are serial rapists. On college campuses, repeat predators account for 9 out of every 10 rapes.




kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 9:10:21 AM)

http://news.change.org/stories/repeat-offenders-account-for-9-out-of-10-rapes-on-college-campuses

Stetson University law professor David Lake almost paints this picture that heavy drinking and a "hook up culture" allows women to become rape victims. I get incredibly irritated at this victim blaming attitude when clearly, what is really on display here is how rapists exploit alcohol to target vulnerable women. Alcohol does not cause women to get raped. The presence of a rapist causes rape.




kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 9:22:01 AM)

quote:

From my perspective- I seem to be debating both fear and a lot of past history from female posters. I have a strong suspicion that had I posted what I have written as a female, I would have a very different response. My perception is that there's a lot of female chauvinism going on here.


Well of course, the uterus predisposes us to hysteria [8|]

quote:

I have not trivialized rape, nor its consequences


Many of us feel that you trivialize date rape.




samboct -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 9:23:53 AM)

FF

In terms of the cooperation rate- well, I was having trouble sleeping when I read that report and I mixed something up- this statement here:

The overall weighted response rate for the 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey ranged from 27.5% to 33.6%. This range reflects differences in how the proportion of the unknowns that are eligible is estimated.

Mea culpa on that point.

In terms of the design of the survey- I just went and had a look at Appendix C. Given the design of the questions (I'm not going to reproduce them here but if anybody is interested- please go look for yourself) I suspect that it's very hard not to come up with some affirmative responses to the questions they ask. Nor does the survey ask the simple question- have you ever been raped? The survey is using unwanted sexual contact as a proxy for rape. Some of the questions would fall afoul in this community- have you ever been pushed or slapped during sex? Well, yeah- but that was part of the fun for us, now wasn't it? But that can't be separated out as consensual sex. Go take a look.

In terms of credentials- there's lots of bad science out there from impeccably credentialed scientists. See Pons and Fleischman, or the The Bell Curve (forget the authors) or Henrik Schon. This experimental design is so flawed, you don't need a Ph.D. to figure it out.

A well trained psychiatrist/psychologist has probably close to a decades worth of training- these are the people that I would trust to elicit a sexual history. 18 hours of training- you've got to be kidding me....and over the phone?

Boxwine- so I'm a fossil? OK, well, here's a song that certainly involves rape, and from my perspective- humor. I suspect you won't get it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRvR2oF3FQ




Sam





Lucylastic -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 9:30:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I only have a moment, not long enought o give Sam's post complete consideration. As to the part blushes pulled out,

quote:

"From my perspective- I seem to be debating both fear and a lot of past history from female posters. I have a strong suspicion that had I posted what I have written as a female, I would have a very different response


I have never been raped. I have taken care of many women who have. Date rape wasnt a term people used when i was in my teens and early 20s.

THis
And I have.
I adore Sam, but on this issue ..We cant agreee which is why I havent commented




SweetCheri -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 9:36:00 AM)

Maudit tete quaree.




samboct -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 9:38:58 AM)

Kalikshama

The statistics you're posting about serial rapists on campus- that's what makes sense to me- rape is a crime perpetrated by criminals who enjoy the behavior. I'm still having a lot of trouble reconciling that statistic with what the CDC study posited which comes up with a very different conclusion about who rapists are.

From my perspective- rape, like any crime, requires planning. Even impulse crimes such as shoplifting involve planning, just not necessarily at the conscious level. The type of serial rapist that attacks women on college campuses may be using dates as a cover for the crime, but he's nonetheless a criminal. I just have problems that some aspects of human sexuality seem to be getting criminalized- there's a certain misinformation about rape going on here that's very reminiscent of the war on drugs.


Sam




SweetCheri -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 9:53:30 AM)

I have nothing further to say to you samboct, you sicken me, you clearly demonstrate to me just how fortunate I was to be born homosexual.

Since you obviously feel that rape is an acceptable thing under certain circumstances, I sincerely hope the next woman whose change of mind you ignore because you are in a "passionate moment" presses charges and that you pay the full penalty provided for by the law.

And trust me, that would be getting off easy compared to your fate should some people I know get their hands on you.





LadyHibiscus -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 9:56:31 AM)

See, y'all wondered when I said he was a douche on the boards? THIS IS WHY. I don't care if he was nice to Steven.




tj444 -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 10:10:18 AM)

yes, his posts on the slut walk thread was the same shit as in this thread,..

He doesnt get that the friend (in the incident he has trotted out on several occasions) never wanted anything more than friendship contrary to him thinking of her as a "potential lover" and trying to push his agenda..(which is why he didnt get it until she was crying)..




xxblushesxx -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 10:11:19 AM)

The slut walk thread? Where, pray tell, would one find such a thing?




LafayetteLady -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 10:18:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Of course men can get raped as well. But it's almost exclusively done by...other men.
I also don't really get what you mean about taking "date rape" out of the rape category. A woman can most definitely go out with someone she thinks is a decent man and be raped...on the first or the fifteenth date. It doesn't matter if he took her to McDonalds or to Four Seasons, if a man forces himself sexually on an unwilling person, it is rape.



You are most definately correct.  I think what is aggravating Sam and should aggravate every woman is the concept that a woman gets drunk and says yes, but it is still rape.  It may be something she wouldn't have agreed to when sober, but with the amount of binge drinking that tends to go on with college students, allowing "morning after" regret to be called rape is not simply unfair to the guy, but also grossly unfair to every woman who was legitimately raped; the women who said "NO" and the man continued anyway.

Unless a woman is passed out during the sexual act, or in some other way, unrelated to being drunk off her ass of her own volition, unable to tell the man she is with, "NO," applying rape often will not fit.  That is what skews those statistics on date rape in college age women.  They are being encouraged to cry rape when they wake up the next day regretting their behavior.

ETA:

All which is unrelated to the OP.  What those frat boys did should make them lose their charter, close down the frat house if it was residential causing the boys to find dorm or alternate housing, the boys should be put under academic probation as well as requiring them to go to classes to learn why what they did was inappropriate.

As someone else had said, if the wording were simply, "girls we would like to fuck," none of this would be an issue.  It is the element of violence and their lack of understanding that about rape that causes the problem.




tj444 -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 10:39:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx
The slut walk thread? Where, pray tell, would one find such a thing?

I tried searching for it but couldnt find it,.. back during the last slut walk.. he wasnt the only one with that viewpoint on the thread..




FrostedFlake -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 10:42:52 AM)

I am sorry I wasn't able to do a better job for you ladies.




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