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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 7:52:50 AM   
Lucylastic


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Read it again
try looking at the PDF put out by the NYC Government, which is the point of the piece you poo poo

http://www.nyc.gov/html/cjc/downloads/pdf/nyc_pointclickfire.pdf

you miss out an awful lot when you dismiss facts out of hand to prove you are a REAL neocon, let alone have questionable integrity, intelligence and maturity
its not looking good for your "truth"



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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 8:17:23 AM   
tazzygirl


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First, the "study" was about on line sales...

Dismiss that one all you want.

What cant be dismissed is the Ammo Land site.

Again, they know its happening, the states know its happening, the sellers know its happening and the gun shows know its happening.

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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 8:19:07 AM   
Lucylastic


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not dismissing it at all, just proving its not JUST a thinkprogress article to be laughed at...

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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 8:19:48 AM   
tazzygirl


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sorry, Darlin, I should have put FR on that.

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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 8:21:59 AM   
mnottertail


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See that there sanity?  an apology, a misunderstanding, so the arrogant circle jerk lies elswhere.....

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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 8:24:45 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

sorry, Darlin, I should have put FR on that.

winks, just wanted to make sure hon:)

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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 8:26:28 AM   
tazzygirl


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Im still waking up, got pushed out of bed by two cats and the man.

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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 8:28:19 AM   
Lucylastic


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Heh nice lay in huh?
good morning


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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 8:42:00 AM   
tazzygirl


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Featuring a clip from an al Qaeda propaganda video, in which American-born terrorist Azzam al-Amriki touts the ease with which "You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle without a background check," Mayors Against Illegal Guns urges Americans to call their representatives in Congress to support stronger regulations.


Can anyone spot the lie in the above?

"Criminals already know how to take advantage of gaps in our gun laws, and now Al Qaeda knows, too," said Bloomberg in a statement. "Americans, including NRA members, overwhelmingly support stronger laws to keep guns away from terrorists and other dangerous people. You are checked against the terror watch list to board an airplane, but you don't have to be checked when buying assault weapons. Weak gun laws aren't just a crime problem, they're a national security threat - and this ad should be a wake-up call to Congress."

The group cites 2011 data from the Government Accountability Office (GAO) showing more than 1,000 instances since 2004 in which terror suspects were able to purchase guns or explosives.

Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., earlier this year introduced to the Senate the "Fix Gun Checks Act," which would "ensure that all individuals who should be prohibited from buying a firearm are listed in the national instant criminal background check system and require a background check for every firearm sale." The bill was referred to Committee on the Judiciary but has yet to see further movement since March.

In May, however, House Republicans shot down a similar proposal, which would have prevented people on the FBI's terrorist watch list from purchasing firearms.

"It shows how extreme the National Rifle Association's control over Congress really is," said the measure's sponsor Rep. Mike Quigley, D-Ill., of the defeat.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20075133-503544.html

“Let’s take America as an example,” he says. “America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?”

Mr. Gadahn is wrong in one respect: Individuals cannot buy “fully automatic assault” rifles without government authorization. But his larger point is well taken: Purchasing deadly weapons in the United States is easy — especially at a gun show. Buyers can scoop up semiautomatic weapons and extended magazines from private dealers at these shows without undergoing a background check.

Moreover, individuals on the U.S. terrorism watch list are forbidden from air travel but may purchase a weapon. A recent report by the Government Accountability Office documented this “terror gap”: From February 2004 through February 2010, 1,228 individuals on the watch list underwent background checks to purchase firearms or explosives; 1,119, or 91 percent, of these transactions were approved. In an update published in April, the GAO reported that some 200 individuals on the watch list were approved for weapons purchases from March 2010 through December 2010.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/closing-the-terror-gap-and-the-gun-show-loophole/2011/06/06/AGTKubKH_story.html

The NRA's response to that video...

Gun Ban Groups Seize On Al-Qaeda Threat

Friday, June 10, 2011

Anti-gun groups have been quick to exploit last week's al-Qaeda video in which Adam Gadahn, an American-born militant on the FBI's "Most Wanted Terrorists" list, calls on followers in the United States to buy firearms and attack major institutions and public figures.

On June 7, the Brady Campaign, the Violence Policy Center, the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, the Legal Community Against Violence, and States United to Prevent Gun Violence wrote to President Obama, urging him "in the strongest terms to order an immediate and thorough review of steps the Administration can take in the short term to reduce the firepower available on the civilian gun market, to tighten existing laws regulating the gun industry, and to improve the background check system to make it harder for those with terrorist ties to obtain firearms."

Of course, it's never surprising that anything even remotely related to firearms inspires these anti-gun groups to promote whatever unrelated issues were already at the top of their agenda. And it's even less surprising that the groups' preferred initiatives would have no more effect on a committed terrorist than they've ever had on domestic criminals:

Terrorists around the world have never lacked for "firepower," no matter how harsh the laws in the countries they've attacked. India's strict laws, for example, failed to stop the deadly attack on Mumbai.

Even if private gun sales in the U.S. were banned, terrorists -- like common domestic criminals -- could simply use straw purchasers who can pass background checks, or could rely on stolen guns and other black market sources.

Legislation to arbitrarily deny sales to persons on the "terrorist watchlist" would be useless against Gadahn's target audience of "lone wolf" attackers with no previous ties to terrorist organizations.

Fully automatic "assault weapons" cannot be purchased over the counter.

Ironically, Gadahn's call for "lone wolf" attacks may itself be a sign of his group's decline. As the private intelligence firm Stratfor said in an analysis of the video, earlier al-Qaeda communications "suggested that militants who answered the call would be trained, equipped and put into the field of battle under competent commanders," while the more recent calls for would-be terrorists to go it alone "may be an admission of defeat and an indication that the jihadists might not be receiving the divine blessing they claim."


http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6906

Lets be quite clear, I fully support the second amendment. No where is anyone calling for a ban of guns. They are demanding the loophole allowing sales without background checks being performed to end.

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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 9:18:34 AM   
MasterAvallach


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Jesus fuck this is better than a soap opera.

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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 9:23:19 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAvallach

Jesus fuck this is better than a soap opera.


Judging from the number of ignored posts my guess is that it IS a soap opera. With all the intelligence they require.

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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 9:25:40 AM   
MasterAvallach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAvallach

Jesus fuck this is better than a soap opera.


Judging from the number of ignored posts my guess is that it IS a soap opera. With all the intelligence they require.



I may well be forced to agree. It's amazing how far it traveled from the OP topic. However it is damned near hysterical. I nearly spit out my coffee reading it.

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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 9:44:10 AM   
Lucylastic


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laughin at some of this is the best part of my day
welcome...

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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 9:53:03 AM   
tazzygirl


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~grins

So true Lucy... so true

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 12:26:02 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-bloomberg/gun-show-undercover_b_312339.html
http://washingtonindependent.com/79287/pentagon-shooter-exploited-gun-show-loophole
http://www.gunshowundercover.org/
http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-news/201010/get-your-guns/
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/06/more-georgia-guns-show-up-at-out-of-state-crime-scenes-than-any-other-state/1

I got tired, theres alot more, but as I said, pointless factless asswipe.

\

I will admit I haven't been to a gun show in over 10 years but as I used to go regularly, I would say in a 15 year period I had attended 100 times more or less to shows from about maybe 6 or 8 different circuits. All if not most of these guys with tables selling guns were dealers requiring the paperwork and whatever else. Things may have changed some and there may be a larger volume of private sales at gun shows than what there used to be but my point is, a private sale is the same type of transaction anywhere else it may take place including hooking up via the internet (see Tazzys link) as it is at gun shows. The so called loophole applies everywhere. Ya don't need to go to a gun show to get your hands on a gun.

You asked in one of your post above "How do you suggest we prevent or monitor those occurrances?"  I have another suggestion, why not arrest and charge these guys on the videos who went ahead and sold guns to guys who stated they probably couldn't pass a background check.  The evidence is on video and it's a violation of federal law. Hell, one guy with a table full of guns says he sold 200 and whatever number of Glocks or something.  I believe that is a violation of federal law too because those are not casual sales and should require a license. Like I said above, try using laws already on the books.  I know it's more fun for you libs to grandstand and whine while you try to legislate the second amendment away.

The thug mentality that the liberal media has glamorized over the past 2 decades putting "street cred" and criminals into the limelight as heroes, not to mention the ridiculously easy sentences for violent criminal behavior, and the protection of thugs by the communities they live in. Your ignorance lies in the fact that you ignore the basic right of law abiding citizens to protect themselves, the police are reactionary not proactive they generally respond after a crime is commited not before and with every nation that has enlisted gun control all that has happened is that the law abiding citizens become victims of the criminal class that continues to keep and use guns or even escalates that use.


I had a FF license once that I let go in about 2002 or 03. According to the ATF I wasn't selling enough guns and I was having to jump through too many hoops to keep it so I let it go. Ya think I'm going to get a license if I go to sell off a chunk of my collection ? I don't think I'll set up a table at a gun show either. You say you have an FFL too. OK.....if you say so.

  You cite the huffing and puffington post / Bloomburg.......I'm sure that was a nonbiased one.  One of your videos makes hay out of a gun show purchase of a 33 round Glock magazine. Big freakin deal, you can get one of those through the mail from a bunch of places.

   And from another one of your links citing the Brady Bunch, a nonbiased source I'm sure, complaining GA guns showing up at crime scenes around the country.  "
Gun right advocates, however, say the information from ATF is misleading and is used only to support criticism of Georgia's relatively liberal gun laws, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports. "If you have a state like Georgia, which is fairly gun-friendly in terms of the hurdles it takes to buy one, there are going to be a lot of transactions," John Monroe of GeorgiaCarry.org tells the newspaper "It's not possible to take that trace information and correlate it with guns recovered at crime scenes. They're (The Brady Center) trying to show Georgia is a bad place, and that's not true. It would be more meaningful to look at gun crimes per capita if they are trying to show something about Georgia in general."
I'm sorry you got tired. I'm tired of looking at your pointless asswipe links.
You say: "Then to stop killing our citizens you advocate regulation of private sales, or as a non-veteran and rightist extremist you are for doing whatever it takes to kill american citizenry?"   What a load of crap......and American is spelled with a capital A.  Sounds like big brother needs to help Georgia and the other certain other states clean up their act in order to help the neighbors stay alive. LMAO
 
The only gun control we need is to enforce the existing laws against criminals. All this "Loophole" hysteria is just designed to further the cause of gun registration.  Here in Florida we have this thing called "Ten, Twenty, Life".  If you commit a felony while just possessing a gun ya get an automatic 10 years for the possession plus whatever for the crime. If you use the gun while committing the crime it's 20 additional years and if you shoot or kill someone it's life. Chuck Norris used to advertise the law on TV wearing that big ole Texas Ranger hat. He said in a serious tone of voice, "Use a gun and you're done".
  



 

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 12/21/2011 12:28:08 PM >


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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 12:39:27 PM   
mnottertail


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Your point is taken, but again volume is the key here.  It is not a liberal talking point, it is real and nobady gives a fuck about the person to person onezies and twozies here.

It is the bulk buys by strawmen, by criminals, and so on.

Hey, it doesnt encompass everybody agreed but it is a good segment of trouble.

So, even if it doesnt get every one, just like the cop handing out speeding tickets, it reduces the overall numbers, and no one would say, fuck that, its not going to be 100% effective, and besides, most people drive under the speed limit.

And that's my point, I don't have a huge hard-on for this.  I am a current FFL holder and deal with guns in and out currently and go to gunshows and have many many colleagues without FFLs that trade and buy and sell guns off book, and I go to a great many gunshows and whatnot currently.

That was the link to my bona fides.   I am all for cutting off avenues where criminals can get guns in any way shape or form so I dont have more government regulation in trying to stop it other ways, on my back,  that is the sum and total of this for me.

BTW, my ATF agent who watches my book is a direct relation of Hermann Goering, cool hah?

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/21/2011 12:40:29 PM >


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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 12:53:23 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The New York City report showed that 62 percent of private gun sellers agreed to sell a gun to a person who said he probably couldn’t pass a background check even though private sellers are prohibited from selling to prohibited purchasers, including those who indicate that they probably couldn’t pass a background check. Here are the failure rates of websites included in the New York investigation:




http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/12/14/389577/new-york-investigation-illegal-gun-sales/

And this ...


Manassas, VA, - -(AmmoLand.com)- Anyone who does not hold an FFL and sells a firearm to someone he doesn’t know well is incurring a certain amount of liability. And, a bit of bad judgment could cause trouble not just for the seller, but for the rest of the gun owning community as well. There is no question that individuals have the right to buy, sell, and trade firearms between themselves without government infringement. But there are laws on the books and failing to know and follow them is just asking for trouble. A prudent trader will take into account not only the legal technicalities, but the political environment also.

Any sale in violation of the 1968 Gun Control Act and its subsequent amendments exposes traders to serious criminal liability.............................. efforts to mitigate the issue, the gun shows – and all private transfers – could be just a fond memory in the not too distant future.


http://www.ammoland.com/2009/12/18/private-gun-sales-no-questions-asked-no-sale/

The states know its happening.... the gun shows know it is happening... those defending the second amendement know its happening. Thats good enough for me to want the practice to stop.

Edited to include link


  An intelligent post on the subject for once, way to go. Just a couple of things though, the investigation percentages above are a result of only the sales being investigated by the investigators. It doesn't show or deal with how many actual persons with firearms disabilities are purchasing guns from these guys. One of the links in the PDF or maybe it was in the PDF cited a guy who advertised an unregistered full auto weapon for sale on the net. This would fall into the dumb criminal category and the guy should be put away for public safety.

   A good read though as I didn't have a clue about gun sales via the internet. I went to an auction site once to get an idea of the relative value a something I had. It was quite some time ago.

I have to say though I don't trust Thinkproggress or Thinkliberal or any other group of lefties with anti gun agendas including the author  Amanda Peterson Beadle.


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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 12:58:17 PM   
Lucylastic


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what about the report is anti gun?...it was performed by NYC Gov, not thinkprogress or amanda.
What in the original "article" is wrong?


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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 1:04:06 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I am all for cutting off avenues where criminals can get guns in any way shape or form so I dont have more government regulation in trying to stop it other ways, on my back,  that is the sum and total of this for me. Cutting off these so called avenues WILL require more government regulation.

BTW, my ATF agent who watches my book is a direct relation of Hermann Goering, cool hah?  Go figure........though not at all cool........


  Apologies for implying you lie about having an FFL but I've just never heard of a liberal with a FFL.


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RE: Desperate Holder plays the race card... - 12/21/2011 1:05:48 PM   
mnottertail


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I am not very liberal, but you lead a very sheltered life then.  Theres a fuckload of em. 

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