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RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 3:40:58 PM

ashjor911

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quote:

Unfortunately, this is about money, not about the principle.

well, when you miss your plane, convention or meeting or even a meeting with someone.
then tell me its not about principle, & the airlines will not do that once more because they have been paid their price.

bottom line is damn its about principle, money is just a Compensation only.

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Post #: 21

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 3:57:49 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AleyaShifert
I, as a Muslim woman, condemn the act of terrorism and the slaughter of innocent peoples.

I condemn circumcision. Per my definition all populations that circumcize their male offspring are Jews.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AleyaShifert
Islam is a religion of peace and respect

That is both unfortunate and a lie - and it is also what Jews say about their religion. As long as you Jews mutilate the penises of your male offspring, you shed blood - nor do you by assaulting the integrity of their body show them any respect.

People who insist on peace are the most aggressive and violent people of all.

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Post #: 22

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 4:14:24 PM

TheBanshee

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Somehow I think all the facts aren't in that story. There are many Muslims that travel, and all of 'em aren't thrown off flights, no matter who gets a little jittery. This isn't the whole story.

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Post #: 23

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 4:29:38 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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Is it just me? or does Rule seem to have a hard-on for circumcision?

On topic: At one point in my life, I worked typing up accident reports for a major oil refinery. Whatever was reported in the news, was NEVER actually what had happened. There was enough truth reported to the public to not be an actual lie, but the lie was in the omission. Most companies are very skilled at dissembling. All that to say, I never listen to the news without keeping in mind that what is reported is probably not the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

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Post #: 24

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 5:51:38 PM

stellauk

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I'd say that this is more about the principle, otherwise it wouldn't have been reported on.

It doesn't matter who tried to help the men onto the plane, all that matters is one person refused them.

And the principle here is very clear. Either the law and the Constitution applies equally to everybody or it doesn't.

How anyone can claim this is about something else is beyond my comprehension.

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RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 6:04:39 PM

TheBanshee

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If you read other versions of the report from other sources, the plane had actually left the gate, then returned to remove the passengers in question. They didn't outright refuse them - which means something else went down while the plane was about to take off.

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Post #: 26

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 6:04:57 PM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Is it just me? or does Rule seem to have a hard-on for circumcision?

He has always been pre-occupied with the state of other men's foreskins. He's a few flapjacks short of a short stack.

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Post #: 27

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 6:29:52 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

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i think that sucked they were profiled like that, but wonder if maybe there was more to the story?

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Post #: 28

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 6:41:23 PM

barelynangel

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IF this is about the principle, which the Complaint does seem to insinuate, but then again, most do, then it will come out as this case moves along. As i said, if they settle and there is a confidentiality clause, then to me, it will be about the money only and not worrying about the principle. Another mitigating circumstance is how many other muslims may or may not have been on that flight, that would also show a concept of discrimination towards Muslims.

Yes, fome a legal standpoint it does matter that Delta employees attempted to try and get the men on the plane, that does have a impact. The fact the Plaintiffs are admitting that Delta employees were working hard to get the men on the plane, is going to be part of the defense in this matter. The fact that the Delta employees were frustrated with the pilot, again, will help the defense because it could very well show that the pilot was acting on his own and only time will tell if he in fact violated policy. Also, what will matter is the disciplinary record of the pilot, the discipline Delta took towards the employee etc. Until they have his deposition and know what his reasoning was in detail, it's hard to tell.

This case is not as simple as they got kicked of the plane and so Delta has to pay.

I will be interested to see if they do in fact add the pilot, and what their reasoning for not adding him is.

angel

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Post #: 29

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 9:19:58 PM

GreedyTop

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From: Savannah, GA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

well,
the thing is, they got offended, & they are Suing the airline...they are going to be paid.....

you dont want me to defend Islam , you want to know how people which are not Muslims defend Islam in the us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWx3o6DbtHY
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_ihf_oPvlg

people fear what they do not understand, & maybe they just dont want to understand,
its their right to have fear, but its not someone right to tell me that i can not ride that plane, just because i am a Muslim.
when you Imagine that happening to you, you can not react on the matter, when your whole life have no freedom..

honestly, if i was in that Position, i really dont know what to do at that time.

Thanks, Ash. *hug*

Great videos.

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Post #: 30

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 9:47:06 PM

tazzygirl

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A few more details...

Rahman, who is an adjunct instructor of Arabic at the University of Memphis, has said he was dressed in traditional Indian clothing. Zaghloul, who is a religious leader with the Islamic Association of Greater Memphis, was dressed in Arab garb that included traditional headgear.

The two passed through regular security screening and were waiting at the gate to board when they were pulled out of line and subjected to a second security check, according to the suit. They were questioned about their trip and their luggage and belongings were searched before the men were cleared and allowed to board.

Shortly after the plane pulled away from the gate, the pilot announced the aircraft was returning to the terminal. Once there, according to the suit, the men were pulled off the plane, asked more questions and searched again, this time with a "comprehensive body pat down."

Although they were again cleared to board, the pilot refused to allow them back on the plane, the suit claimed. The plane began to depart without the men when an unnamed airline official called it back and it returned to the gate for a second time.

The suit claims the official then boarded the plane and spoke with the pilot, who said he would not allow Rahman and Zaghloul on the plane because their presence could make other passengers uncomfortable.

According to the suit, the official told passengers that anyone who was apprehensive about the presence of the two men could take a different plane and would be given a generous voucher. There were no takers. The pilot still refused to allow the men to board and they were booked on a later flight, the suit said.

Delta and Atlantic Southeast Airlines Inc., which is owned by SkyWest Inc., issued a statement Monday that read: "Atlantic Southeast and Delta oppose discrimination in any form from any source, and our employees act at all times in the best interest of passenger safety and security. We cannot comment further on pending litigation."

Both airlines are based in Atlanta.

Federal regulation allows an airline to refuse to transport an individual who it decides is unsafe. The plane's captain has ultimate authority. But the decision cannot be made solely on the basis of person's race, color, national origin, religion, ethnicity, or sex.

The suit said the two were traveling to a conference on "`Islamophobia,' and how Muslims religious leaders could help address this issue."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/19/muslim-men-to-sue-airlines-after-allegedly-being-kicked-off-flight/#ixzz1h93u6ku0

The plot definitely thickens. Yes, there was more to this story.

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Post #: 31

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 9:53:21 PM

BKSir

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Well, this is going to be a raging shitstorm...

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Post #: 32

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 9:54:38 PM

tazzygirl

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IF that report is true, BK. I tend to take such reports with a grain of salt, not because I dont believe the people are affected, but because I dont trust journalists to get the story straight.

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Post #: 33

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 10:00:23 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: AleyaShifert

Some people don't realize that Muslims comes in all size, race, color, personality, etc, etc.. They just assume all Muslim are single minded people who works as a whole to take over the world.

Which from your post appears to be the same way you view Americans.

Right? Although honestly, not surprising. After all, we Americans are the root of all evil and believe that we are the center of the universe.

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Post #: 34

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 10:08:47 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I am curious even though the pilot was an employee of Delta, he wasn't added individually to the Complaint as it appears he was the one who solely and completely refused to allow them on the plane. On principle they could have added him. He may have gotten dismissed but again, if its the principle they are after, and their whole complaint outlines how Delta supervisors and such were attempting to have the pilot change his mind and the fact they gave the passengers an out who would have been uncomfortable to take a later flight and get a generous voucher as the pilot was indicating people would be uncomfortable -- it makes no sense they didn't include the pilot on principle as a defendant.

Their request for Relief doesn't have a monetary demand but requests some good principle relief, i.e., injunction etc as well as compensatory against both Delta and ASA as well as punitive to be determined by a jury

angel

Very interesting and so cool you were able to get a glance at the complaint.

Seems to me their little trip for an "Islamaphobia" conference stood to get quite a bit more press and "prestige" by bringing public attention to such "discrimination" happening.

Based on the information you provided, their lack of filing against the pilot, while all the time showing that the airline did everything in their power NOT to discriminate, their case is lost before they even finish the filing. Regardless of whether or not the pilot has previous disciplinary action, unless it is specifically about discrimination, the airline is not likely to be found at fault. It seems it was the pilot, not the airline who was making a decision based on religion.

So far it seems that if the men do not amend the complaint to include the pilot, the men are destined to lose. Based on the information you have provided, the airline could pretty easily get summary judgement to dismiss the complaint, and the men would need to refile including the pilot.

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Post #: 35

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 10:11:53 PM

tazzygirl

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LL, you may want to check the story I posted.

And here is the suit itself... I just found it so I dont know what it says...

http://cbscharlotte.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/filed-complaint-rahman-zaghloul.pdf

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 12/20/2011 10:15:12 PM >

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Post #: 36

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 10:23:37 PM

BKSir

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This kind of profiling just befuddles me though. I mean, I'm no expert on Islam or its people, but, I can say that the ones I've had the pleasure of meeting and knowing have been some of the most welcoming, accepting, warm, caring, kind, gentle, pacifistic, wonderful, genuine people that one could ever hope to know. And without fail, are quick to say of the actions 10 years ago "They were not Muslims. They were evil people who know nothing of what it is to be Muslim.". Every single one of them.

It is people like this pilot who make me feel shame to be from the same country as them, just as it is people like the terrorists that make Muslims feel shame at being of the same religion.

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Post #: 37

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 10:29:33 PM

tazzygirl

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Its just like Germans.. not every German was involved with, or condoned, the actions of the Holocaust. But for many years, a german accent was heard and that was immediately thought. Or the Japanese internment camps. In the US, if you arent white, you will be vilified until proven innocent.

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Post #: 38

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 10:36:34 PM

BKSir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its just like Germans.. not every German was involved with, or condoned, the actions of the Holocaust. But for many years, a german accent was heard and that was immediately thought. Or the Japanese internment camps. In the US, if you arent white, you will be vilified until proven innocent.

I know... I guess I just don't understand, deep down. You know? Just not something I really get. I guess I have my mom, aunt, uncle and grandma to thank for that.

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Post #: 39

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/20/2011 10:53:06 PM

tazzygirl

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I dont get it either. I understand that it happens, I just dont get it.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 40

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