Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 6:43:45 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Why would they name the pilot? They had the contract with the airline and not the pilot, and the pilot works for the airline anyway, so it's the airline's responsibility.

Personally I do hope they get compensated, if somebody would treat me like this, I would like them to feel it where it hurts them most, which is usually the check book, plus why should somebody be treated like that and not be compensated? With the media attention this case is getting, the airline will be very motivated to change their policies.


They would name the pilot because the pilot was pointedly discriminating against them (based on facts presented here).  The fact that he is employed by the airline doesn't mean only the airline is named. 

In the US, lawsuits name EVERYONE having direct involvement, even if those defendants are later dropped from the suit.  This is because if the court was to find the airline not culpable, the suit against the pilot would still stand.

NOT naming the pilot or specific people they believe discriminated against them tends to reek of simply seeking the deepest pockets.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 6:53:11 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Only that the airline hired the pilot, so why didnt they remove him if they didnt agree with his decision?


Maybe because they don't have pilots sitting in a lounge somewhere waiting to take over his flight for him?  Maybe because if they did that, then everyone on the plane would be suing over what they went through?

Yes, what happened to those men (again, based on what is currently known) was wrong.  But there were what?  At least another hundred people on that flight.  Why is it so easy to say they should be punished as well by having their flight cancelled?  Especially when to do so would potentially make this a very volitile issue and certainly wouldn't do the Muslim community any good.

Since we don't know all the FAA rules or the rules the airlines have governing flights, jumping to the conclusion that the airline could simply remove the pilot, cancel the entire flight, etc. is a conclusion based on assumption not fact and therefore completely without merit.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:04:34 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Maybe because they don't have pilots sitting in a lounge somewhere waiting to take over his flight for him? Maybe because if they did that, then everyone on the plane would be suing over what they went through?


Then what do they do when they have a pilot that shows up intoxicated/sick?

quote:

the airline could simply remove the pilot, cancel the entire flight, etc.


I didnt say cancel the flight.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:06:21 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		At those times everyone hasn't already boarded, have they? 

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:06:29 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Because he is more than likely a union employee, and it's not always cut and dry as to firing someone or removing them from duty especially if they have progressive discipline, does anyone yet know if the airline disciplined him in any way?  Welcome to the world of unions.

As far as i can tell, there is no public announcement from the pilot as to the ins and outs of the pilots decision.  There is a lot of speculation from the Plaintiffs and others.    The pilot may not have done anything wrong and when all of the information comes out --- it could very well end wherein while this really sucked for the two men, the behavior of the pilot was justified.  It could end wherein the policies of Delta need to be changed or tweaked to avoid this discrepancy of employee's determination as to what the best course of action is in such a situation, or it could end wherein the pilot had a really bad day and fucked up and needs to be held accountable.

These men were pulled aside in many different instances in the course of this issue.  They were initially allowed on the plane with no issue, until such time the plane was called back to the gate and they were removed -- people on the flight were required to be delayed -- and then the pilot made a decision, the COMPLAINT is indicating the reasoning the pilot maintained his reasoning, however, until Delta answers, and they may not answer any allegations that have to do with their speculating as to why the pilot did certain things because they can't speak for the pilot.  The whole complaint is a story, and in answering same the Defendants will have to be VERY careful and specific in their responses. 

As to why the pilot wasn't added, i could speculate he is a non-issue for the men in the general course of the suit.  Even if his employment contract requires Delta to indemnify him and hold him harmless, all that would mean is that the guy would tender his defense to them.  

At the very least, comparative fault may be something Delta and ASA can assert against the pilot.  There just isn't enough information. 



angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/21/2011 7:11:19 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:10:35 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		I'm kind of thinking that the airlines are likely to throw the pilot under the bus, but that might just be me being cynical.

I do believe there is a lot more to this than what has made it to the press.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:13:45 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Because he is more than likely a union employee, and it's not always cut and dry as to firing someone or removing them from duty, does anyone yet know if the airline disciplined him in any way?  Welcome to the world of unions.

As far as i can tell, there is no public announcement from the pilot as to the ins and outs of the pilots decision.  There is a lot of speculation from the Plaintiffs and others.    The pilot may not have done anything wrong and when all of the information comes out --- it could very well end wherein while this really sucked for the two men, the behavior of the pilot was justified.  It could end wherein the policies of Delta need to be changed or tweaked to avoid this discrepancy of employee's determination as to what the best course of action is in such a situation, or it could end wherein the pilot had a really bad day and fucked up and needs to be held accountable.


I was thinking that too, angel. Unionized, they may not have been allowed to pull the pilot for just any reason. I get that. But these men were searched twice before boarding.. and the pilot took off, then returned to the gate.... he would have had to have been called back... or he would have had to call... but someone made the decision to turn the plane around for the men to be returned.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:15:03 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Of course they will, especially if he isn't added to the lawsuit.  Major comparative fault allowance to a jury that can't take action against said party, so they have a integrity decision to make -- do they put all the fault on the pilot, do they put some on each party INCLUDING the Plaintiffs thereby mitigating the damages.  Do they split the fault or percent it out agianst the non-named fault and the two remaining defendants.  I think if this goes to trial, the defendants will have to work the jury to that end -- i.e., the pilot.  All in all, if their policies do not support his actions -- then that to me is the right thing to do.  If their policies support him, then i think they will probably go the percentage division of fault.

Ya gotta love law lol. 

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:16:23 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Tazzy, i don't get where you are going with that line of reasoning. 



_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:23:47 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The problem was already there before they boarded the plane. Twice searched before boarding the plane.

The plane was closed, the pilots in seats, they were pulling into the taxi lane, and they turned around to go back to the gate.

Why? Thats the part that is missing.
These men obviously were not a problem to the pilot before the plane pulled off. Why after leaving the gate?
Did the pilot request to turn around or was he told too?
Was what he told enough to spook him into not wanting them to get back on to the plane?

I dont think the major problem these men are having is with the pilot at all, but the Airline itself. They were not ejected from the plane for causing a disturbance, otherwise that would have come out.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:29:39 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		lol the WHY is what gets flushed out in the lawsuit.

The pilot is the one who refused to let them back on the plane and did not back down.  The employees of Delta tried to convince the pilot to let them on.   The fact he initially let them on is part of the issue they are having.

From a legal standpoint, the main issue here was the actions of the pilot in refusing to allow them to utilize the contract their ticket purchased allowed.   There are all fun legalees and such, but that is the gist and will remain the gist until it gets flushed out, in my opinion.  You start with what is known and then start adding bits and pieces until you have a line of defense that you can substantiate to a jury who techincally are the peers of the Plaintiffs, NOT the corporations.   Then they will narrow it down to policies, the actions of all the employees and defining discrimination as well as all those fun little disclaimers that the tickets have etc. 

However, the pilot should be named, and i will be curious to see why he wasn't named.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/21/2011 7:31:54 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:34:00 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Wasnt it the Delta rep who told the men what the pilot said? Lots of he said she said there.

Will be one to watch.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:35:43 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		All i am going on at this moment is the Complaint.  That is the case from the perspective of the Plaintiffs.  As far as i know the Defendants haven't yet answered and there will probably be a lot they deny or are unable to answer.

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 7:42:49 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Im just speculating... lol

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 9:26:19 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The problem was already there before they boarded the plane. Twice searched before boarding the plane.

The plane was closed, the pilots in seats, they were pulling into the taxi lane, and they turned around to go back to the gate.

Why? Thats the part that is missing.
These men obviously were not a problem to the pilot before the plane pulled off. Why after leaving the gate?
Did the pilot request to turn around or was he told too?
Was what he told enough to spook him into not wanting them to get back on to the plane?

I dont think the major problem these men are having is with the pilot at all, but the Airline itself. They were not ejected from the plane for causing a disturbance, otherwise that would have come out.


The thing here though, is you are automatically assuming the men did nothing to cause this to happen.  Maybe they didn't, but maybe they did.

I'm not going to say they weren't discriminated against by the pilot, but I'm not going to say the pilot was wrong, or the airline is instantly at fault.

The plane hadn't "taken off," it had taxied away from the gate.  The airline has not issued a comment yet, and I will be interested to know what they say.  What I do know is this, flying a plane isn't the same as driving a car.  I want to know what it is that made the pilot feel the way he did, but at the same time, the last thing any plane passenger wants is a pilot who is too nervous to fly.

Perhaps the pilot has some history that caused his discomfort, I really don't know.  The point is that neither do you or any of the other people instantly jumping to the conclusion these poor men suffered discrimination.  Until both sides have answered, no one really knows what happened, and even then, unless we have transcripts on testimony, depositions and such, we know nothing beyond what the complaint and answer say, neither of which may actually be the truth, but rather the "spin" put on by the attorneys for each party.

While discrimination happens, and this, right now, looks like it could be a case for discrimination, it doesn't mean it is.  I see a real problem with society when a person plays the "race" card or cries discrimination and everyone immediately assumes that the person making the allegation is correct.  Remember Tawana Brawley?  Lots of screaming about discrimination there, tons of publicity, and when the truth came out, it was all a fabrication.  I do see their destination being an "Islamaphobia" conference just a little too coincidental to the whole event.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 9:28:58 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Perhaps the pilot has some history that caused his discomfort, I really don't know.


Then why would he wait till he is pulling away before saying something?

This all isnt making sense... something is missing.

The first security check is normal... why the second one... then the third?

Until those are answered, nothing will make sense.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 9:33:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The point is that neither do you or any of the other people instantly jumping to the conclusion these poor men suffered discrimination.


Now wait a minute. I dont recall calling anyone a racist.. and I went back and I know I didnt.

Nor did I accuse anyone of discrimination. In fact, I gave a plausible excuse for the pilot for not wanting to have them on the plane.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 12/21/2011 9:34:40 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 9:50:12 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FFR

What if they reeked of booze and stale cigarettes ?

T^T

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 9:53:00 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		who? the pilots?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines - 12/21/2011 10:01:04 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

The point is that neither do you or any of the other people instantly jumping to the conclusion these poor men suffered discrimination.


Now wait a minute. I dont recall calling anyone a racist.. and I went back and I know I didnt.

Nor did I accuse anyone of discrimination. In fact, I gave a plausible excuse for the pilot for not wanting to have them on the plane.


Maybe it wasn't you who said it.  If not I apologize, but you get my point.

As you said in the previous post:

quote:

Then why would he wait till he is pulling away before saying something?

This all isnt making sense... something is missing.

The first security check is normal... why the second one... then the third?

Until those are answered, nothing will make sense.


To the best of my recollection, a pilots board the plane and is locked in the cockpit before anyone else boards.  They do not see who boards the plane.  So yes, this begs the question of "how did the pilot know who was on board?"  I don't know.

Perhaps the security checks were re-reviewed and a different set of eyes saw something different.  I don't know.

A lot of this doesn't make sense.  And the confusion is a lack of facts coming from BOTH sides.  So now the question becomes will we ever get those answers?  And I guess that depends on what angel can look at from her job since she has access to the papers filed.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094