RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child

RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (Full Version)

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xssve -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 1:00:53 PM)
Anyway, the upshot is, I see it as an adaptation rather than a "disorder", in line with the more modern view of it, and would resist any implications that might be construed as saying it's "curable" - it might be, but I don't see that there's much reason to try other than scientific curiosity, within the bounds of scientific ethics. If you got the equipment, and you had to reproduce, I suspect you probably would, which is why evolutionary selection has not selected out sexual bimorphism, I don't see why I should second guess evolution, it's been going on a mite longer than I have.

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 1:01:14 PM)
This IS the girl scout thread.

xssve -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 1:07:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: if the curriculae are similar in both organizations (BSA and GSA) What makes you say that? http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110408114400.htm ScienceDaily (Apr. 8, 2011) — Nearly 5 million American children participate in the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, but until now no one has looked at the gender messages young people get when they start collecting those coveted badges. Kathleen Denny, a sociology graduate student at the University of Maryland, College Park, analyzed scouting manuals and found that -- despite positive aspects -- today's scouts are being fed stereotypical ideas about femininity and masculinity. Her findings were recently published in Gender & Society. Girl scouts, for example, are steered away from scientific pursuits while boys are discouraged from pursuing artistic interests. While gender has been analyzed in children's books and television, it has rarely been examined in scouting manuals. "The disproportionate and gendered distribution of art and science projects aligns with the large body of research that finds girls being systematically derailed from scientific and mathematical pursuits and professions due to cultural beliefs and stereotypes about their relative ineptitude in these areas," says Denny. Interesting, given that more women are graduating in science than boys at the moment - for the most part women are born scientists, IMO, they sure as hell remember everything. \|p

xssve -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 1:08:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl This IS the girl scout thread. I know

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 1:13:58 PM)
quote: If you got the equipment, and you had to reproduce, I suspect you probably would, which is why evolutionary selection has not selected out sexual bimorphism, I don't see why I should second guess evolution, it's been going on a mite longer than I have. So its your position that someone with GID will go ahead and "act" like a man because he has a penis?

xssve -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 1:28:17 PM)
If they had to, sure - what's gonna stop them? Happens all the time in fact, lot's of people don't come out with it till they already have families. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, just saying it happens.

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 1:56:04 PM)
Why should anyone "have" too? Onset can be as early as 2 and some want nothing more than to have their genitals changed.

tweakabelle -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 2:41:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why should anyone "have" too? Onset can be as early as 2 and some want nothing more than to have their genitals changed. xssve has a long record of controversial (some would say moronic) statements on issues like this, tazzy. One that sticks in my mind is his claim that "rape is a successful reproductive strategy". That statement tells me there's nothing worth listening to likely to come from that particular source.

xssve -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 3:34:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why should anyone "have" too? Onset can be as early as 2 and some want nothing more than to have their genitals changed. That's not what I said, although you seem to be implying that there are Two year olds that want a sex change - otherwise, whether they do or not is really none of my business other than strictly academic, it not me you have to convince, after they reach the age of majority, they're legally entitled to make their own decisions about surgical reassignment. The controversy seems to be about surgical reassignment before puberty, and agree that if it must be done, the earlier the better, but at the same time you can't really criticize non-consensual reassignment when the same arguments about coercion apply to voluntary reassignment, when you're talking about a minor - the whole reason for parental responsibility of minors is because it's usually easier to talk kids into doing dumb shit, and they have a reputations for making hasty and ill thought out decisions. I'm not going to equate the two, just note that it raises the same ethical issues, in many cases of involuntary reassignment, the parents or doctors may have been genuinely attempting to improve the child's quality of life, in others, maybe some surgeon just wanted a guinea pig, hard to say ex post facto - in a way, these surgeons actually laid the groundwork for consensual reassignment, to the point that the current issue is no longer whether it can be done, but whether it should be or when, i.e. a legal fiction of a consenting minor is called for, in order to define the precedent - there are certain things a minor can consent to, this isn't one of them at the moment. Even after they reach the age of consent, they have to undergo fairly rigorous psychological examination, no? So that process exists, but you're going to have to add pediatric psychology to the mix. I don't really know, I wouldn't want to make a rule on it, I don't have the information to make that call - I'm assuming for the sake of argument that such persons exist, although I'm doubtful about the Two year old, but it's a legal issue, it's going to have to be argued on a case by case basis in a court of law with all the attendant formalities, regardless of mine or anybody else's opinion.

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 3:43:00 PM)
For someone who comes across as having a bit of scientific knowledge, the term "onset" when dealing with a medical diagnosis should have been more than obvious to you. Which leads me to the conclusion that you have no interest in the actual psychological causes or ramifications of this disorder. quote: The controversy seems to be about surgical reassignment before puberty This confirms my conclusion. No gender reassignments are performed before the age of 18.. which has been stated more than once in this thread. quote: otherwise, whether they do or not is really none of my business other than strictly academic If this were true, you would have bothered to at least read on medical report or study on this disorder and discovered the errors in your "clinical" assumptions.

xssve -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 3:45:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why should anyone "have" too? Onset can be as early as 2 and some want nothing more than to have their genitals changed. xssve has a long record of controversial (some would say moronic) statements on issues like this, tazzy. One that sticks in my mind is his claim that "rape is a successful reproductive strategy". That statement tells me there's nothing worth listening to likely to come from that particular source. Which I proved with the example of Ghengis Khan, so it's not "controversial", just disturbing. quote: Zerjal et al. [2003][7] identified a Y-chromosomal lineage present in about 8% of the men in a large region of Asia (about 0.5% of the men in the world). The paper suggests that the pattern of variation within the lineage is consistent with a hypothesis that it originated in Mongolia about 1,000 years ago (thus several generations prior to the birth of Genghis). Such a spread would be too rapid to have occurred by genetic drift, and must therefore be the result of selection. The authors propose that the lineage is carried by likely male-line descendants of Genghis Khan and his close male relatives, and that it has spread through social selection. Both due to the power that Khan and his direct descendants held and a society which allowed one man to have many children through having multiple wives and widespread rape in conquered cities.[8] Wikipedia: Descent from Gengis Khan You think every half white child in Vietnam or Japan or probably Iraq, was the result of consensual sex? It's a fact of war, and life, armies traditionally rape and pillage, dozens of accounts in the Bible alone, it doesn't have to be pleasant to be true. You have a history of saying things that are matters of opinion, your's, like they are facts, I think I just established that. /threadjack.

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 3:55:00 PM)
quote: You have a history of saying things that are matters of opinion, your's, like they are facts, I think I just established that. What you just established is that you are accusing tweak of something you are very obviously guilty of as evidenced by the posts above.

Musicmystery -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 4:04:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im just trying to figure out how this 7 year old is a danger. But what if her head starts spinning? What then?

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 4:10:33 PM)
No danger absent the split pea soup, Master Tim [8D]

xssve -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 4:18:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl For someone who comes across as having a bit of scientific knowledge, the term "onset" when dealing with a medical diagnosis should have been more than obvious to you. Which leads me to the conclusion that you have no interest in the actual psychological causes or ramifications of this disorder. quote: The controversy seems to be about surgical reassignment before puberty This confirms my conclusion. No gender reassignments are performed before the age of 18.. which has been stated more than once in this thread. quote: otherwise, whether they do or not is really none of my business other than strictly academic If this were true, you would have bothered to at least read on medical report or study on this disorder and discovered the errors in your "clinical" assumptions. Nah, when I was Eight or Nine I did the pantyhose and tuck thing one sunny afternoon, then forgot all about it, and never at any point do I recall ever wishing to have my genitals removed or become a woman, though I occasionally wonder what it would be like, it's called empathy. You'd probably call that GID, and start trying to tell me who I am - I call it curiosity, you got GID if you use a strap on? Other words, diagnosing a Two year old with GID sounds sketchy to me, I can't even hardly tell what actual physical gender they are at Two. And the part about surgery, I was talking about hormone therapy before the age of consent, which is the preamble to surgery, and while not irrevocable, still raises ethical issues, but if it's between reassignment and suicide, if I were the parent I'd probably have to go with it.

xssve -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 4:19:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: You have a history of saying things that are matters of opinion, your's, like they are facts, I think I just established that. What you just established is that you are accusing tweak of something you are very obviously guilty of as evidenced by the posts above. Like what? Hormone therapy is not part of gender reassignment?

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 4:24:24 PM)
Again, your lack of knowledge is showing. quote: surgical reassignment before puberty Hormone therapy is not surgical, and usually prescribed after at least 2 years of therapy and observation, and then about the age of 13, the onset of puberty. Care to try again? I really advise against it.

xssve -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 4:32:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Again, your lack of knowledge is showing. quote: surgical reassignment before puberty Hormone therapy is not surgical, and usually prescribed after at least 2 years of therapy and observation, and then about the age of 13, the onset of puberty. Care to try again? I really advise against it. Yeah, and that is below the age of consent, I'll retract the surgery part since you were referring to hormone therapy, although that is clearly the next phase, no? And, if they're happy about that, then more power to 'em, I've known tranny or Two, though not in the biblical sense, probably nothing harder than getting stuck halfway between fish and fowl though some people seem to make a go of it. But then there is, as noted, a large distinction between GID and liking to dress and act like a girl.

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 4:45:01 PM)
quote: Yeah, and that is below the age of consent, I'll retract the surgery part since you were referring to hormone therapy, although that is clearly the next phase, no? In that case, we cannot give Type 1 Diabetics insulin because the patient is below the age of consent. quote: But then there is, as noted, a large distinction between GID and liking to dress and act like a girl. There is a huge difference... dressing like a girl doesnt mean someone has GID. But, men who have GID will desire to dress like a girl.

xssve -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/27/2011 4:53:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Yeah, and that is below the age of consent, I'll retract the surgery part since you were referring to hormone therapy, although that is clearly the next phase, no? In that case, we cannot give Type 1 Diabetics insulin because the patient is below the age of consent. If you are equating treatment of asthma, croup, or Diabetes with gender reassignment, then this statement would make sense. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: But then there is, as noted, a large distinction between GID and liking to dress and act like a girl. There is a huge difference... dressing like a girl doesnt mean someone has GID. But, men who have GID will desire to dress like a girl. So what about lesbians that like to dress like men? I know for a fact many of them have no desire for a penis in any way shape or form.

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