RE: Mentoring for new sub

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sheisreeds -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 7:11:42 AM)
To play along: Us scary people on fetlife (I get that right now my avatar is a cup o blood) when we go to munches and the like happen to be wearing clothes, eating food, and being friendly like normal people. It kinda shows what we're like on a normal day, that we're functioning adults in loving relationships. The slaves are often seen laughing at this functions! You may disagree but OP and your wife appear to be making a lot of assumptions on how this works, base on the Internet which is a figment of reality, and at times outright fantasy. I'm not a slave, I'm not a master, never had much desire to be either but I've learned a lot from both. I in return have helped many a slave and master. This is not about creating a perfect set of circumstances. It's about an exposure tosubside variety of opinions and people. None of them will be exactly right, as what is right for you is only for you.

troppo65 -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 7:42:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx You've been together all these years, and yet you still can't trust your sub to have the intelligence to read the forums, take what she needs from it and leave the rest? It has nothing to do with trust or her intelligence. Unlike people on the forum, I do know how she reacts to what people say and I do know that reading judgemental waffle would and has upset her. Funnily enough, she doesn't have a problem with it, yet many here do. quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx You still feel the need to "monitor" her email conversations? Yes I do and had you bothered reading, you may have noticed she does as well. I also felt it important to be upfront about this, so if there did happen to be someone interested in actually helping they could decide not to offer help if they were uncomfortable with having me read their emails. quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx If that works for you, I wish you both the best. Personally, I would be chafing under such conditions. HM trusts me to be intelligent enough to find the good, and ignore the rest. He trusts me to have my own friends (both male and female) and knows I would never do or say anthing that would hurt what we have together. Certainly no issue with her having friends, she probably has 2 to 3 times as many as I do, half of which I have never even met. Neither of us have trust issues. quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Does your sub wish you to have so much control that she's treated as a child who must be held by the hand and led? Just because someone identifies as submissive, do not mistake that for unable to make decisions, or unable to think for him/herself. In some areas, yes she does. There were things she would stress and worry about, i have taken the responsibility for those things off of her and tell her what bits to do and when. She's happy with that as she doesn't have to worry about them anymore. In other areas, no she doesn't. She is more than capable of doing her job with her employer, running her part time business from home doesn't need any input from me, I have nothing i could possibly contribute about her amateur theatre committments. There are many aspects of her life where I am not needed. So yeah, I'm reasonably certain she can make decisions and think for herself. She does have time management issues though (with all that on her plate, who wouldn't?) so I have created a shared calendar she must use so I can see what she has planned when, I have instructed her to maintain and show me a task list daily. There are consequences for her forgetting to keep them up to date. Just another example of my over the top controlling behaviour I thought you should be aware of :) quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Perhaps you could try something such as this, give her an assignment to come to the forums and research something you're interested in. Have her write a paper on what she's found and what she believes to be true/untrue about her findings. She wouldn't need to even post if she didn't want to. We have a search function on the forums that (once you've played with it a bit) works fairly well. That is something I could do, if EITHER of us were anywhere near as concerned about the BDSM forum ban as you all seem to be. As it's not something she is worried about in the slightest we will probably concentrate our energies elsewhere.

troppo65 -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 8:04:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sheisreeds To play along: Us scary people on fetlife (I get that right now my avatar is a cup o blood) when we go to munches and the like happen to be wearing clothes, eating food, and being friendly like normal people. It kinda shows what we're like on a normal day, that we're functioning adults in loving relationships. The slaves are often seen laughing at this functions! You may disagree but OP and your wife appear to be making a lot of assumptions on how this works, base on the Internet which is a figment of reality, and at times outright fantasy. I'm not sure what assumptions you think I'm making. Not sure i have commented on anything other internet forums. So what would my assumptions be? That many folk on the internet aren't entirely honest? That there are a large number of people on the internet who would take advantage of someone (particularly a female) for their own purposes? That forums arent full of people more interested in waving there e-peens around than giving honest, helpful advice? That as a female posting on a forum, she is not going to get pathetic, desperate males messaging her with tons of crap? Or the fact that she doesn't like any of that? As for fetlife, I agree that there probably are many people just like us there. Our experience was a little different. We looked for local munches, events etc. Looked at the people who said they were attending and checked out their profiles. One person who was attending had photos of a session in which he was putting what appeared to be a tek screw through someone's breast wit a power drill. During and after shots, my wife was horrified at this. In the overwhelmingly positive comments accompanying this photo set were quite a number of the more active locals. My wife stated that there was no way she could sit in the same room as someone who could do that. She doesn't have a problem with all SM activities, but that crossed a hard limit for her in a big way.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 8:06:31 AM)
He doth protest too much...

troppo65 -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 8:18:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx He doth protest too much... Would you care to let me know how much I should protest? :)

littlewonder -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 8:20:52 AM)
I'm still not understanding what her confusion is. You seem to be telling her what to do and she's doing it. What's her confusion? Can you give us some kind of hint at least? Or is it that she thinks she has to be like all the other slaves and subs? If this is where her confusion lies then simply tell her that every relationship is different and that's not your relationship and you two just make it up as you go along. Do what you both enjoy and scrap the rest. That's not hard at all. If one of you ISN'T enjoying it then you got problems.

troppo65 -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 8:38:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder I'm still not understanding what her confusion is. You seem to be telling her what to do and she's doing it. What's her confusion? Can you give us some kind of hint at least? Or is it that she thinks she has to be like all the other slaves and subs? If this is where her confusion lies then simply tell her that every relationship is different and that's not your relationship and you two just make it up as you go along. Do what you both enjoy and scrap the rest. That's not hard at all. If one of you ISN'T enjoying it then you got problems. Pretty much that's it. She's a checklist kinda girl, give her a list of do's and don'ts and she's happy. She also wants to know if she's doing it "right". Even though she knows there is no "right", she still wants to know she is doing right, Catch 22, tailspin territory I know.. That's something we will be able to work through though. I still think she needs someone she can talk to, one on one, who has been through what she is and will be going through. Whilst we can communicate all we like, there will be some things i just will not be abe to understand, being male and not having a submissive personality.

littlewonder -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 8:40:51 AM)
I don't see how a mentor is going to help her through that though. She has a personality that says "I'm not doing it right"...she's insecure and obviously doesn't trust you to lead her but probably doesn't trust anyone else either. A mentor won't change that.

searching4mysir -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 8:49:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: troppo65 quote: ORIGINAL: sheisreeds To play along: Us scary people on fetlife (I get that right now my avatar is a cup o blood) when we go to munches and the like happen to be wearing clothes, eating food, and being friendly like normal people. It kinda shows what we're like on a normal day, that we're functioning adults in loving relationships. The slaves are often seen laughing at this functions! You may disagree but OP and your wife appear to be making a lot of assumptions on how this works, base on the Internet which is a figment of reality, and at times outright fantasy. I'm not sure what assumptions you think I'm making. Not sure i have commented on anything other internet forums. So what would my assumptions be? That many folk on the internet aren't entirely honest? That there are a large number of people on the internet who would take advantage of someone (particularly a female) for their own purposes? That forums arent full of people more interested in waving there e-peens around than giving honest, helpful advice? That as a female posting on a forum, she is not going to get pathetic, desperate males messaging her with tons of crap? Or the fact that she doesn't like any of that? As for fetlife, I agree that there probably are many people just like us there. Our experience was a little different. We looked for local munches, events etc. Looked at the people who said they were attending and checked out their profiles. One person who was attending had photos of a session in which he was putting what appeared to be a tek screw through someone's breast wit a power drill. During and after shots, my wife was horrified at this. In the overwhelmingly positive comments accompanying this photo set were quite a number of the more active locals. My wife stated that there was no way she could sit in the same room as someone who could do that. She doesn't have a problem with all SM activities, but that crossed a hard limit for her in a big way. It seems a big portion of her fear comes from the idea that she might be required to be involved in extreme pain play. Is that a fair assumption? That she doesn't understand masochism and is afraid of that aspect of BDSM?

troppo65 -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 8:59:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder I don't see how a mentor is going to help her through that though. She has a personality that says "I'm not doing it right"...she's insecure and obviously doesn't trust you to lead her but probably doesn't trust anyone else either. A mentor won't change that. I disagree on the trust thing, that was a long discussion over several days. I was playing devil's advocate and running scenarios to try and dissuade her to make sure she did have total trust before agreeing to move ahead in the first place. I agree that a mentor won't solve the confusion issue, that is something we will work through together over time. But having someone sensible to talk to could help.

troppo65 -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 9:11:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir It seems a big portion of her fear comes from the idea that she might be required to be involved in extreme pain play. Is that a fair assumption? That she doesn't understand masochism and is afraid of that aspect of BDSM? Not really, limits are well in hand there. I am not a sadist and the pain play we have done so far has been very light. She has always been a bit of a drama queen when comes to pain in general, to the point where our 5 yo daughter comments that if mummy had done that she would be crying more than I am! It does open up a thought though, we have both been very surprised at her physical reactions to spanking and the light flogger. She has really enjoyed what we have done so far and has expressed a desire to be pushed. She finished making her cane tonight. Maybe she fears where she may end up? Will have to talk that one over with her.

kalikshama -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 9:15:54 AM)
If my SO was monitoring my convos, I would censor myself, which is not conducive to the open exchange of information.

troppo65 -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 9:22:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama If my SO was monitoring my convos, I would censor myself, which is not conducive to the open exchange of information. Do we need to keep going over this same thing? Please re-read my previous posts as I have said about as much as I can trying to clarify this. If I haven't made myself clear by now I never will. If it is more of a philosophical difference of opinion then we are never going to agree anyway, so further discussion of the point will be a complete waste of our time.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 10:13:40 AM)
You came to the forums as a newbie dom and you asked for advice. You have pooh poohed everything everyone has said to you (except for those who agreed with everything you said.) You have just discounted some invaluable advice given to you by a sub who has told you the truth. If you want your wife/sub to have open and honest communication with someone other than you, you're going to have to give the leash a bit of slack. Now you mentioned you tried this before but it didn't work for the two of you. Have you considered the reasons why you feel it didn't work out at that time?

LafayetteLady -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 10:23:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: troppo65 quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: If I do find someone i think will be suitable, I will be monitoring the correspondence. The above does equate to choosing a "mentor" for her. It implies that YOU decided who is suitable to talk to her. quote: I am obviously not getting what I am trying to say across clearly, as this reply and several others, demonstrates. The reason for not letting her read forums is exactly this, the conclusions drawn thus far by the forum are waaaaay off the mark. I get that you say your wife goes on a tangent, but at the same time, SHE needs to learn how to cull the information that is helpful and discard the information that isn't. If you are going to do that for her, then she will be losing her identity, because you will be choosing someone whose views YOU consider to be relevant, as opposed to someone who views SHE wants to hear. quote: In my previous reply I also clarified why I would monitor communications with any prospective mentors, not everyone is who they appear to be on the internet. If I were your wife, I would be seriously insulted by this comment. It indicates that she can't judge people's character for herself. There is always going to be some jack ass who posts the "true" way of doing things, or someone who thinks you are "forcing" things. If she knows you aren't, she should be able to figure that out. quote: It was also HER idea for me to monitor communication with any prospective mentor we might find, hence the couples account. Part of HER reasoning, she felt she might communicate some things to a mentor that I should be aware of and may forget to tell me. "Forget" to tell you? In any relationship, you should be her choice for someone to communicate with and she should be yours. Do you monitor what she talks about with ALL her friends? I doubt it. And I don't doubt she has had some conversations with them she might not have shared with you in the exact same way. quote: We do have an account on fetlife and are looking at getting to a munch, trying to find time is the difficulty. Unlike a lot of folks here, I don't do the whole, "go to a munch" mantra. For some people, this is a private part of their relationship (I am one) and I don't see a need to share those types of intimate details with people. If the two of you decide you want to do that, great. Go for it. But don't feel it is the only way you can find your way. quote: Could I please ask that if you are interested in discussing our situation and something needs clarification in your minds, that you ask me to clarify, rather than coming to conclusions and judging us? Thanks. It is impossible not to draw conclusions, and you have done so yourself. The thing is that while for many people here, the dominant "monitors" or has access to their submissives email, there are just as many that don't. On the forums, people post a question and get a multitude of responses. The benefit of the forums? You get lots of different viewpoints, not just one. You talk as though your wife doesn't have the intelligence or fortitude to decide for herself what resonates with her and what doesn't. Yes, it can be confusing, but then so are a lot of things in life when you ask people for advice. If you "deny" her reading the forums, she is only going to get one viewpoint on things. If you "monitor" her communications with a mentor/friend, the communication is not going to be open and honest with her asking whatever questions she has on her mind, but rather with her gearing the conversations towards only that which YOU find appropriate. Is it really that difficult to see how that would lead to her losing her identity more than anything she reads on the internet?

OsideGirl -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/28/2011 3:53:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady If you "deny" her reading the forums, she is only going to get one viewpoint on things. If you "monitor" her communications with a mentor/friend, the communication is not going to be open and honest with her asking whatever questions she has on her mind, but rather with her gearing the conversations towards only that which YOU find appropriate. I agree with this. Eventually she's going to get to something that gives her doubt....and knowing that you're eavesdropping is going to prevent her from asking that question.

Fetters4U -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/29/2011 6:12:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: troppo65 Would you care to let me know how much I should protest? :) Not at all. You came to us asking for advice. The only words out of your mouth should be thank you.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/29/2011 8:11:14 AM)
Hmm, shame that she can't get involved in this conversation as I am pretty sure that would be the best way to help. The advice you have given is the right advice. Do not live your relationship the way that other people tell you to, having a mentor is little use, someone that you can talk to openly (and someone ELSE that she can talk to openly) would be good for both of you, monitering each others emails is all well and good but privacy is brilliant, sometimes all you need is to vent without regret, to talk about fears without moderation. I found keeping a blog helped me to organise my thoughts. I found using loads of websites helped me form my own ideas and desires. I found reading books helped solidify my own ideas. I find arguments help when I am having a crap day but also help me understand where I am coming from. I am sure that I was led from time to time, I am sure that I got lost along the way, but I am also sure that is part of being human. Another piece of advice is go to munchs and events because that is where you realise that everyone is human, very few people like to let on to that fact online.

tazzygirl -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/29/2011 8:57:47 AM)
quote: I still think she needs someone she can talk to, one on one, who has been through what she is and will be going through. Whilst we can communicate all we like, there will be some things i just will not be abe to understand, being male and not having a submissive personality. I disagree, and I will explain why. Giving someone only one point of view can be detrimental. No two women, or two relationships, will ever be the same. If she is only getting feed back from one person, she will be in essence mimicking that person. You have to allow her to explore, to question, to discover... to become her own person as a submissive.

DesFIP -> RE: Mentoring for new sub (12/29/2011 10:39:29 AM)
Obviously she's never going to be allowed to talk to anyone or hear anything he disapproves of or is frightened of her learning about. Equally obvious, she isn't ever going to stop pulling back and refusing to do this. They've tried it multiple times, she's pulled the plug on having a d/s relationship as many times as he's pushed for it. OP you might consider thinking over Einstein's definition of insanity as it definitely can be used to describe your situation.

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