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RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:27:01 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

I have two daughters… one took advantage of the opportunity I provided for her and is now a VP at a data processing company making a 100k plus…The other decided she did not want to take the education opportunity I offered and is now working two 22 hr a week minimum wage jobs and is making a living but struggling. Who’s fault is it that she is making 1/6th the income of her sibling?


Yes, the opportunity you provided. Who provided that opportunity for you? Do you think another child whose parents could not afford him/her that opportunity would have turned you down?

quote:

And tazzy she is making enough to live on minimum wage…just not enough to support a large family…she at least has enough sense not to have children she can’t support.


Minimum isnt enough to provide for a small family.

quote:

The point is anyone… from a rich or poor background, if they are motivated to earn a good living, can do it by taking advantage of the opportunities available to all. Now if they choose not to do this then they will have to live with the consequences.


And you can never envision a situation where those opportunities are just not available, can you.

quote:

You can make a living on minimum wage if you are careful with expenditures.


Thats an existence... and barely that.



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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:28:34 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

People need to regrasp personal responsibility.   Tony Robbins has a saying -- In life you either need inspiration or desperation.


The people who need inspiration are the people who don't wait for life to happen but make life happen. Those who need desperation won't do anything to change anything until the situation is desperate.


How much more desperate do they have to be with a 16% unemployment rate and an economy thats in the shitter through no fault of their own?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:35:11 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		all 8+ million that lost their jobs in 2007-8 and into 9 are all to blame themselves for not being at the top of the heap!!!!


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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:40:29 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		No, i don't think they are different all around the world. Personal responsibility is personal responsibility no matter what language or situation you live in.


MOST people who are butthurt and struggling in the US now are NOT people who have for years lived on welfare or don't know HOW to work, they are people who got into a bad situation because of a turn of a situation. Now, they can say well this that and the other, but i believe its a known fact a LOT if not MOST people in the US tend to live beyond their means and are in debt. This isn't some third world country where the opportunities escape the majority of people. MOSt people in the US don't know how to be POOR, that's the problem. Most don't know how to budget and survive on less than what they had.

Hell even those who are on unemployment don't want to give up the luxuries their beyond their means prior life afforded them.


That combined with not working to better themselves, their skills, and seeking out their opportunities BEFORE the crisis hit to me all contributes to that personal responsibility concept.
angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/29/2011 4:42:22 PM >

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:40:55 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Of course its their fault that their companies and their government found another way to fuck them over while it bailed out the companies who were doing the fucking.

Sorta sounds like an M/s relationship, heavy on the sadism.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:42:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

MOST people who are butthurt and struggling in the US now are NOT people who have for years lived on welfare or don't know HOW to work, they are people who got into a bad situation because of a turn of a situation.


A turn of a situation? Is that what you call this financial mess "a turn of a situation"? This mess was caused by others, not because of " a situation".

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:43:24 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		thats why its not worth it Taz, right there:)

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Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:45:02 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Yeah, that's exactly what i am saying Tazzy.

Good grief, you are so tunnelvisioned on this being all the wealthy's fault you can't even bring yourself to admit that at the very LEAST some of what i am saying is true. Instead you want to put words in my mouth to further your cause of blaming everyone else.

angel



_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:45:16 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		fast reply

How can we find it acceptable that someone who, perhaps is not intelligent enough to go to college, but, they have the personal motivation and integrity, to go to work every day, without fail, and empty trash cans, clean up puke or shit, scrub toilets, pick any menial job and insert here, how can we say to them, you provide a service that we, the more intelligent folks are way above doing, but, you will be damn glad we let you live at the poverty level for working harder than we ever will in any given day?

Gawd, if that run on sentence makes sense, I am going to have to go roll another one!


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Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:48:43 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Yes Tazzy this is a turn of a SITUATION, our economy has fluctuated all over the place since the beginning of our existance.  This mess was caused BY EVERYONE.  Fuck are you so desperate to blame everyone else but the individual?

Whose to blame for most people living beyond their means Tazzy?  The banks becuase they loaned them money, their employer because they didn't pay them what they should to live the lifestyle they wanted too?

Christ with attitudes like this we will never get out of this SITUATION because no one is going to rescue the people of the U.S. they will NEED to step up to the plate and actively participate in bettering their situation.

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:50:40 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

MOST people who are butthurt and struggling in the US now are NOT people who have for years lived on welfare or don't know HOW to work, they are people who got into a bad situation because of a turn of a situation.


A turn of a situation? Is that what you call this financial mess "a turn of a situation"? This mess was caused by others, not because of " a situation".



I agree with you and prefer the term corporate theft Tazzy. There simply is no other way to describe derivitives that contained hidden toxic debt being knowingly sold to those looking for a safe investment.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:52:57 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub
fast reply

How can we find it acceptable that someone who, perhaps is not intelligent enough to go to college, but, they have the personal motivation and integrity, to go to work every day, without fail, and empty trash cans, clean up puke or shit, scrub toilets, pick any menial job and insert here, how can we say to them, you provide a service that we, the more intelligent folks are way above doing, but, you will be damn glad we let you live at the poverty level for working harder than we ever will in any given day?

Gawd, if that run on sentence makes sense, I am going to have to go roll another one!

I think that is what is said all the time to immigrants, especially illegal ones.. but not just said by the 1%.. I rented a room from a woman in OC, she had a gardener come by and do the gardening, it wasnt that much she paid.. and she was an unemployed nurse (she rented out all the rooms to make the mortgage payments/overhead).. Everyone there has gardeners.. go figure..

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Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:55:27 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		There is very rarely people who aren't intelligent enough for higher education.  There are issues with paying for it, or making it a priority, etc.    Perhaps our problem is we see them as as less intelligent. 

I know people who started cleaning toilets and worked their way through hard work, sacrifice and tears sometimes to careers that they were worthy of them.  However, they never gave up on their ambitions. 

Employers aren't responsible in my opinion to make sure the salary they are paid to do a job is what they need to survive, employers to me are responsible for paying the employee for the job they do.    There is a difference.  When does the survival or poverty level end -- with just paying the person enough for that one person to live beyond poverty, for two people too, for three people too?  What isthe gauge for living at poverty level?  I mean hell at my salary if i had 5 kids and just me, i would pretty much be living at poverty level.  Is my employer responsible for making sure we all would live above that?

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:56:45 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Yeah, that's exactly what i am saying Tazzy.

Good grief, you are so tunnelvisioned on this being all the wealthy's fault you can't even bring yourself to admit that at the very LEAST some of what i am saying is true. Instead you want to put words in my mouth to further your cause of blaming everyone else.

angel





Ahem... the wealthy... the government... bug business... yep... all three.

I asked you questions based upon what you said. If you feel Im putting words into your mouth, then explain where I am wrong.

How can you possbly blame a man who was making more than enough to suit his lifestyle with his family who goes to work and discovers his pink slip... not because of poor job performance on his part... but because of downsizing. Was that his fault? Or maybe it was Leahman Brothers whose bankruptcy rocked the investement world. Or the AIG fiasco which caused an earthquake. Did that businessman have a hand in those?

How about all the derivatives? Did the secretary have a hand in those? These people had jobs. They were paying their bills. Then through no fault of their own, their world got rocked upside down because of big business and wall street.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 4:59:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Yes Tazzy this is a turn of a SITUATION, our economy has fluctuated all over the place since the beginning of our existance.  This mess was caused BY EVERYONE.  Fuck are you so desperate to blame everyone else but the individual?

Whose to blame for most people living beyond their means Tazzy?  The banks becuase they loaned them money, their employer because they didn't pay them what they should to live the lifestyle they wanted too?

Christ with attitudes like this we will never get out of this SITUATION because no one is going to rescue the people of the U.S. they will NEED to step up to the plate and actively participate in bettering their situation.


You are assuming everyone is living beyond their means, angel. Is a mortgage and a car beyond their means? I mean honestly, you are so fucking busy making excuses that you cant see what anyone else is saying.

People did not cause this mess.

quote:

because no one is going to rescue the people of the U.S


No one WANTS to be rescued. They are simply tired of being fucked over.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 5:00:02 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Christ with attitudes like this we will never get out of this SITUATION because no one is going to rescue the people of the U.S. they will NEED to step up to the plate and actively participate in bettering their situation.



Quite simply, how do they do this ?

Where do you suggest people go and get jobs that have been lost to overseas countries with plentiful cheap labour ?

How do you suggest people get back any savings lost be being missold mortgages they couldnt afford ?

How do you suggest people with very little income pay for training schemes, many of which dont guarantee a job and are next to useless ?

It is all very nice making glib platitudes blaming people for their own circumstances, more so as it has been shown the cause of the current downturn is due to the toxic loans caused by the banks.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 5:01:14 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		There are many many people who are not intelligent enough to even graduate high school, but they can work like a damn mule all day.

There are people who can not read or write, but they can rebuild an engine.

All I am saying is, if we, collective we, do not want to do the grunt work that we expect the "lessers" to do, the "we" should find a way to make sure that they can live in a decent place and not have to rely on public assistance.

I gotta say,
quote:

There is very rarely people who aren't intelligent enough for higher education.  There are issues with paying for it, or making it a priority, etc.    Perhaps our problem is we see them as as less intelligent. 
is, perhaps, the most facepalm thing I have ever read on CM.

It really made me cock my head to one side and wonder if you are serious.


_____________________________

yep

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 5:01:43 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I agree with you and prefer the term corporate theft Tazzy. There simply is no other way to describe derivitives that contained hidden toxic debt being knowingly sold to those looking for a safe investment.


Thats the best description for it. They screwed the public, they screwed their stockholders, they paid off congress, then begged for money while riding in a private jet to beg.

But, its John Q Publics fault.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 5:03:13 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub
fast reply

How can we find it acceptable that someone who, perhaps is not intelligent enough to go to college, but, they have the personal motivation and integrity, to go to work every day, without fail, and empty trash cans, clean up puke or shit, scrub toilets, pick any menial job and insert here, how can we say to them, you provide a service that we, the more intelligent folks are way above doing, but, you will be damn glad we let you live at the poverty level for working harder than we ever will in any given day?

Gawd, if that run on sentence makes sense, I am going to have to go roll another one!

I think that is what is said all the time to immigrants, especially illegal ones.. but not just said by the 1%.. I rented a room from a woman in OC, she had a gardener come by and do the gardening, it wasnt that much she paid.. and she was an unemployed nurse (she rented out all the rooms to make the mortgage payments/overhead).. Everyone there has gardeners.. go figure..

when I was nursing, we were only paid minimum wage
working 12 hour shifts, omost of my buddies wanted to immigrate to the US to get better money JUST FOR the money
The best ones stayed to actually do a job that mattered.
Thats where I come from doing it because Im was making a REAL difference to the people paying for my education
some might call me dumb.... i could give a rats ass, Id rather be poor than hooked up to doing something for the money.
Ive been doing sex toys lingerie, gear for twenty years on and off, why??
Because I REALLY enjoy it, not for the financial rewards.
My expectations of people dont relate to their education and earning potential, I find it shallow

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Income inequality - 12/29/2011 5:04:24 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

There are many many people who are not intelligent enough to even graduate high school, but they can work like a damn mule all day.

There are people who can not read or write, but they can rebuild an engine.

All I am saying is, if we, collective we, do not want to do the grunt work that we expect the "lessers" to do, the "we" should find a way to make sure that they can live in a decent place and not have to rely on public assistance.

I gotta say,
quote:

There is very rarely people who aren't intelligent enough for higher education.  There are issues with paying for it, or making it a priority, etc.    Perhaps our problem is we see them as as less intelligent. 
is, perhaps, the most facepalm thing I have ever read on CM.

It really made me cock my head to one side and wonder if you are serious.


need something stronger hon?


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 200
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