RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising?

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Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:35:51 AM)
quote: the increase of 2000% with only 100% wage increase That's only because you're cherry picking your time period to serve your hard-on about the Fed. If you picked post WWII, inflation adjusted incomes steadily rise. If you pick 1877, the median income was $738, only $14,924.64 in 2010 dollars.

Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:39:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: 1 : 1 deflation is the only way you can correct for inflation. Deflation, however, comes at a cost. Sure, the relative value of the dollar rises. But the economy also slows, making earning those dollars more difficult, through work or investment. Yes, inflation comes at a cost too. That's why we have a federal agency charged with managing the money supply to ensure adequate liquidity with low inflation. Its not a cost when you have MO MONEY! its a gain! Deflation requires less hours of work for the same money! YOur benefit not the gubafia's!!! We now need 2 household income for most people to survive and you did an impasse on the whole inflation issue as always. Why not ask the unemployed and underemployed right now how a slower economy is working out for them? Those who have money, who don't need the work, benefit. Remember those businesses sitting on cash, waiting things out, not investing, slowly velocity? They can afford it. But that's the top of the economy.

MrRodgers -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:54:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail The chart is wrong period. It shows specie backed money abolished in like 1965 or 66....it was and is unchangeably 1971. I was there. Uh, it was backed by gold and then backed by nothing. Its value went from something in 1970, looking at your fucked up meaningless chart, lets call it in the range of 30 to 50 cents of specie, and then went to 0 cents in specie in 1971 because it was no longer backed by specie......uh, what the fuck do you call that word, isn't that sort of the fuckin definition of deflation? Well let's look at some practical results shall we ? As I have written and may not anymore: 1870 suburban Phil. a very typical 4 bedroom colonial with an outhouse $1,500. 1920 city of Detroit a very typical 4 bedroom colonial with 2 baths on city sewer and water $1,500. I call that 0, i.e., ZERO inflation in housing over 50, that's FIFTY fucking years kinkroids. Now fast forward..... 1960 suburban no. Va., 3 bedroom 1 bath rambler on sewer & water $9,000 2010 same community, same house $350,000. I rest my case. (for those mathematically challenged, that's almost 4000%)

mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 8:00:23 AM)
1920 city of Detroit a very typical 4 bedroom colonial with 2 baths on city sewer and water $1,500. 1960 suburban no. Va., 3 bedroom 1 bath rambler on sewer & water $9,000 Cost of apple in syria, 1216 one finger. Cost of orange on the moon 1841 priceless. There are all sorts of excluded middles and whatnot. Is there inflaction, sure. Does cumulative inflation from 1920 or even 1970 have some dire effect on us right now? Does localized inflation over a period of say 3 or 4 or 5 years have effect on us? Yes. Does the inflation that Europe suffered as a result of the Dutch Tulip Bulb layheavily on our beings today?

Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 8:03:33 AM)
What cost $9,000 in 1960 would cost $65,502.65 in 2010. You are giving an example not of inflation, but of rapidly rising demand in a single sector and a single neighborhood. The median income in 1960 was $5,600. In 2010 dollars, that's $40,757.20. The median income in 2010 was $46,326. If you just went inflation to income, the home would cost 160% of income in 1960, and 140% in 2010. So inflation isn't the issue in your example--it's the housing market.

mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 8:10:41 AM)
And we return to unfettered speculation and manipulation at all levels.

provfivetine -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 5:23:35 PM)
Interesting discussion. It has evolved into a conversation about trade cycles as well... For a more detailed version please read this. If you don't have enough juice to understand this, then watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFqtTj7TeO0 It's a bit long, but it's one of the best illustrations of the cycle. It's a great video to explode the "Austrian-Economics/Ron-Paul-is-not-scientific" mantra.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 7:07:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: 1 : 1 deflation is the only way you can correct for inflation. Deflation, however, comes at a cost. Sure, the relative value of the dollar rises. But the economy also slows, making earning those dollars more difficult, through work or investment. Yes, inflation comes at a cost too. That's why we have a federal agency charged with managing the money supply to ensure adequate liquidity with low inflation. Its not a cost when you have MO MONEY! its a gain! Deflation requires less hours of work for the same money! YOur benefit not the gubafia's!!! We now need 2 household income for most people to survive and you did an impasse on the whole inflation issue as always. Why not ask the unemployed and underemployed right now how a slower economy is working out for them? Those who have money, who don't need the work, benefit. Remember those businesses sitting on cash, waiting things out, not investing, slowly velocity? They can afford it. But that's the top of the economy. Interesting argument style. Agree with me with the implication you disagree. Yeh velocity has this effect on unemployment, however again you and your econ pals evade that nagging reality the mo-money in the system creates a vertical offset as a base line for prices on your sd et al chart. Do you know what I am talking about? [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/UEMPMED_Max.png[/image] however as I said above and others have told you as well that velocity is a symptom not the problem.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 7:15:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail The chart is wrong period. It shows specie backed money abolished in like 1965 or 66....it was and is unchangeably 1971. I was there. Uh, it was backed by gold and then backed by nothing. Its value went from something in 1970, looking at your fucked up meaningless chart, lets call it in the range of 30 to 50 cents of specie, and then went to 0 cents in specie in 1971 because it was no longer backed by specie......uh, what the fuck do you call that word, isn't that sort of the fuckin definition of deflation? Well let's look at some practical results shall we ? As I have written and may not anymore: 1870 suburban Phil. a very typical 4 bedroom colonial with an outhouse $1,500. 1920 city of Detroit a very typical 4 bedroom colonial with 2 baths on city sewer and water $1,500. I call that 0, i.e., ZERO inflation in housing over 50, that's FIFTY fucking years kinkroids. Now fast forward..... 1960 suburban no. Va., 3 bedroom 1 bath rambler on sewer & water $9,000 2010 same community, same house $350,000. I rest my case. (for those mathematically challenged, that's almost 4000%) As you can see in terms of 2010 you are correct and MM is wrong again as it is right back on its trend line. [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/united_states.png[/image] the bubble corrected, however it isi important to note that the bubble was created by the gubafia in collusion with the banking cartel. They are bringing the nominal price up to equal the inflation price that is on that vertical offset I talked about in the last post. So it is important to note that when they do the nominal price it is based on the previously inflated price in a floating monetary system. Inflation goes up after all delaeys prices go up to match and creates the nominal price giving the false impression of a real correction when none tool place. that of course means that the increased inflation is here to stay, and we are one more step closer to that banana republic. Unlike as I pointed out the deflation cycle always corrected the money supply and put the value back into your dollar, now its simply runaway theft that NEVER replaces the value of your labor.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 7:59:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: the increase of 2000% with only 100% wage increase That's only because you're cherry picking your time period to serve your hard-on about the Fed. If you picked post WWII, inflation adjusted incomes steadily rise. If you pick 1877, the median income was $738, only $14,924.64 in 2010 dollars. while the NOW steadily rises the yesterday is wiped out! They do not give you a tax write off so you can recoup the money you lost on money earned! The only people who get that luxury are the banks and the top rung wealthy doing OID's! That is the only place in the tax system that a write off for inflation exists! The rest of us get sandpaper fucked. What economists and wannabees alike NEVER admit is that the whole formula that you posted earlier floats on the total money supply! That cute 3% chart will show zero when it hits equilibrium completely ignoring the vertical axis produced by the floating effect. Very deceptive accounting! Oh and it is taught in schools but no emphasis is ever put on its importance exactly as is going on in this debate. However I am not that way, I put the emphasis in the correct place. [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/SDPM.png[/image] This would be how the chart would look for prices properly presented the green being a representation of the money supply et al. Now how do you intend to tell us that there is a milk bubble? Meat bubble? Literally everything across the board doubled in price since 2001, just because you and the econ crowd choose to ignore it does not mean it does not exist as everyone reading this who is older than 20 can tell you that the prices of everything doubled. That is 100% increase in inflation in 10 years. It is accelerating exactly as everyone has predicted it would. and there is NOTHING you can do about it because you have no legislature approved control over it! and you cannot escape it as they created a money monopoly! That means money earned and invested over the last 10 years lost 50% of its buying power as a result of gubafia manipulation and created a slave condition for our children born with into a debt they never created.

mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 8:13:57 AM)
federal outlay is not climbing in concert with the GDP, which means that government is spending less percentage wise as a chunk of gdp. So essentially it tells us nothing. what is S and D in there and if you index the inflation of gdp at one point (this is called the tangent for you innumerates) and then say what is z (the direction for you inummerates) wee look at the slope (angle for you innummerates) of the line S or D (not knowing what they are) at that point and say it is 0%. Therefore inflation is zero percent (for innumerates) then, we leave that point behind, it has passed into history as it were, and do the same thing for say 2006, at which point we get zero percent inflation. Do I got the methodology you are using and trying to pass off as other than some form of asswipe? What does GDP v the Gvt outlay component have to do with inflation? Is it a primary mover?

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 8:18:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail federal outlay is not climbing in concert with the GDP, which means that government is spending less percentage wise as a chunk of gdp. So essentially it tells us nothing. what is S and D in there and if you index the inflation of gdp at one point (this is called the tangent for you innumerates) and then say what is z (the direction for you inummerates) wee look at the slope (angle for you innummerates) of the line S or D (not knowing what they are) at that point and say it is 0%. Therefore inflation is zero percent (for innumerates) then, we leave that point behind, it has passed into history as it were, and do the same thing for say 2006, at which point we get zero percent inflation. Do I got the methodology you are using and trying to pass off as other than some form of asswipe? What does GDP v the Gvt outlay component have to do with inflation? Is it a primary mover? right along with your money. hey I just grabbed a chart that resembled the money supply, you need to understand the accounting (and lack thereof) to understand what I said. It sounds like we agree, though you apparently do not see the importance.

mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 8:23:54 AM)
Well, some of us understand accounting far better than you do, and for those who dont, random charts of wholesale inaccuracies and charts labled with other than the apples and oranges you are talking about, and then used as the centerpiece of your premesis, is rather like taking the name Richard Nixon Jr, so that you wouldn't be confused as being Richard Nixons offspring. IN other WORDS....how are you adding to some understanding, it rather looks as though it is a presentation of exactly what it is, smoke and mirrors, with no actual basis in fact.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 8:49:42 AM)
you really do look silly you know when everyone knows the price of literally everything has in some case more than doubled and nearly every case doubled. food, gas, you name it. How do you plan on telling people I am wrong when their wallets are being emptied at an alarming rate because in fact I am absolutely correct? How do you plan to pull this off without totally insulting even the most economically ignorant persons intelligence beyond their pain tolerance? and I am not going to draw out a special chart because you cannot correctly assimilate this one as I spelled out exactly how to interpret it.

mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 8:58:45 AM)
Uh, foodstuffs are going up two reasons: One---speculation, since housing and other business adventures are laying in the doldrums these days...and money makes money. Two...cost to market because of inputs are going up, fertilizer, POL (petroleum, oil, lubricants) are going up. Gas is going up because of speculation. You cannot point to lighter than air aircraft and cement and say they are equivalent. No theoretical vertical shift or understanding of the history of minting is necessary. Because you said correctly that food is going up, and gas; it does not make any of your other numerous plurinum interrogationums valid or even sensible.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 9:17:04 AM)
who are you trying to kid? we can blame it on to the moon for that matter! Like MM you are parroting symptoms not the greatest cause. Further more it costs less to manufacture products but the prices are going up. Its way cheaper to milk a damn cow today than it was 75 years ago. Even without speculation the prices of milk for instance have multiplied! You cannot explain that in YOUR econ model designed to bullshit the public into parting with all their wealth! it simply is not rocket science and all you econ people do is try to blur the ultimate destruction of this country with bullshit by side stepping the PAINFULLY obvious. you can take speculation completely out of the picture and the charts still wind up the same because it is how much money that is in the system compared to the exchange needs not how you fuck with it AFTER its in the system! exceeding that creates inflation. Continual exceeding that creates runaway inflation as we have now! simple stuff

mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 9:25:24 AM)
Its way cheaper to milk a damn cow today than it was 75 years ago. seventy five years ago stainless steel bulktanks and hermetically sealed piping systems were not required, vacuum milkers and the equipment to run them cost less, the inspections and testing was minimal to non extant those days. Corn cost less, hay cost less, land cost less, barns cost less (you could get them out of a Monkey Wards or Sears Catalogue)...... REA was heavily subsidized. If you cant even count tits on a cow or milk it, how are you going to be believable in speaking about rather nebulously constructed and factlessly advanced theories of money supply and inflation?

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 9:31:01 AM)
Thats bullshit! they cost less by todays INFLATED MONEY when compared to money from yesterday. When you completely remove all inflationary effects the price is the same! Inspections not with standing. More econ voodoo any port in the storm if you cannot dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with bullshit! ANYONE who has ever run the numbers knows that what I am saying is correct. Oh and as far as subsidies are concerned, yeh they have the power and inflict it on people and as a result people get sucked into this monetary abortion at gun point and as wealth evaporates have no choice but to be subsidized and eventually taken over by the gubafia and banking cartel. ~GM

mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 9:38:44 AM)
that sacks it up. tinfoil and only tinfoil. I knew it.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/4/2012 9:53:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail that sacks it up. tinfoil and only tinfoil. I knew it. I am glad that I proved that to you. So how does it feel to be a sucker to a tin foil system?

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