RE: Does effort matter?

RE: Does effort matter? (Full Version)

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stellauk -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 1:43:13 PM)
Yes and no.. Personal hygiene especially.. it's reached the stage once or twice in London where I'm travelling in the morning around the time of the rush hour and I've almost taken out some deodorant and started spraying people with it. It's not just stale armpits, it's horsebreath, knob cheese, and that horrible skanky smell you get from dried in sweat in your clothes. I'm sorry, but when I was street homeless, i.e. sleeping in cardboard boxes behind pallets I still managed to see that I was always clean, showered or bathed every alternate day and had my clothes washed regularly. If there wasn't a day centre or somewhere I would go somewhere and ask if I could use their facilities. Now I'm living somewhere I have a washing machine and a bathroom and it's heaven. I usually bath or shower twice a day and my clothes are usually freshly laundered that day. If I'm going to a munch I will sometimes change into new clothing. But it's not just appearance where I feel effort could be made, but also in stuff like interpersonal communication, manners, and behaviour. Here is where I feel a lot of people just don't make that much effort at all. I won't say much about some of the clothes people wear, but having lived for some years in Europe both Americans and Brits over thirty have a tendency to stand out from everyone else from the way that they dress. I'm not sure whether it's cultural or the fact that some people in their early 40's seem to lose their dress sense or some of it, but say for example in the Old Town Square in Warsaw in among the other tourists you could always spot people from the UK and USA. But then I say no and I say this with regards to the impressions I form of people. I know that you cannot determine what someone is like from their appearance, social position, or material wealth but only from that what lies deep inside them, their character and soul.

Clickofheels -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 5:18:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BootyBoy Well, I think perhaps it is a bit naive to think that all BDSMers are going to fit into the same munches regardless of their backgrounds, just by virtue of their shared interest in BDSM. A farmer from Arkansas and a commodities broker from Chicago are not necessarily going to be comfortable in the same crowd of people. I'm not saying this is always the case, but sometimes people from different backgrounds have different expectations and worldviews. There are munches where everyone shows up in fetish gear, and ones where people just meet in casual attire. Their are dress-to-impress events that I have gone to, and their are people who don't have a suit and tie in their entire wardrobe. So I guess that one should just try and find the group of kinks terms that fit best within their own standards and interests, an remain non-judgmental about those who conform to different standards. Have I misunderstood the O.P.? I thought we were discussing our appearance in public in general...but did she mean how we would dress to attend a munch? (Going back to reread the opening post while muttering to herself about possibly getting mixed up!) MsClick

Clickofheels -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 5:30:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hausboy When someone comes to a munch, however, and makes NO effort--that to me says they aren't going to put much effort into whatever else they do. If you don't pay attention to your personal appearance, it shows that you don't care about the details. And to those Tops/Doms/Dommes looking for a serious service sub...the details matter. My dear hausboy...THIS SAYS IT ALL, in my opinion! Thank you! (smiles) MsClick

LaTigresse -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 5:30:59 PM)
Hell, I don't go to munches and the like.....maybe any effort I make is fruitless! God forbid I meet another hot young professor, when I am out walking during lunch, again! Then again, I don't know if I could handle two like her....[;)]

Winterapple -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 6:30:48 PM)
FR Coco Chanel said when you leave your house always dress like you are going to meet destiny and you want to be pretty for destiny. That said. Dressing very casually or being somewhat unkempt doesn't mean a person has poor hygiene or that their clothes are dirty. I have worn (cute) pajama pants and modified bedhead to the supermarket and if I saw guy doing the same I would wink at him in solidarity. I wouldn't go to a munch like that and would be put off by a guy who did. Most of the local munches are casual not fast food casual but not formal. Wearing nice jeans wouldn't look out of place and a lot of guys wear them. I wouldn't wear jeans but I tend to overdress a little for social occasions. If a guy met me for coffee on a weekend morning I wouldn't be bothered if he was dressed casually. There's a good chance he was or is on his way to the gym or just got out of bed. A little sleepy eyed bedhead just brushed his teeth cause you can smell the Crest full throttle can be sexy on the right guy. Please don't show up at night when we have reservations at a nice place please. I think a person who shows up stinky and slobby for something like a munch probably hasn't been socialized correctly or has other issues that might need to be taken into consideration. A generous person and tactful person might help them privately. Pigtails and a slogan tee at a job fair? Super classy! And as a arty backpacker I would like to say I'm very clean and not just for a arty backpacker.[&:]

Winterapple -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 6:35:17 PM)
And you always want to be pretty for destiny (Coco said) Please don't show up at night like that (meant to say) A generous and tactful person. (no need for two people)

OsideGirl -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 6:39:55 PM)
Yes, I believe effort matters..... in many things......

DesFIP -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 6:46:14 PM)
Washed and teeth brushed obviously should be a given. However I thought the op was talking more about make up, styled hair, dressing to impress. And I think if you are trying desperately to impress people, they will notice and take points off. I'd rather someone wore clothing they felt comfortable in then clothes that don't reflect them. Don't dress like a banker if you're actually a carpenter. Be who you are and comfortable in your own skin.

gungadin09 -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 7:01:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherscorp1 Is this simply shallow, or is it a matter of showing you care enough about yourself and respect the venue enough to at least try? I don't know why you wouldn't be entitled to feel that way. I often think people that are dressed to the nines are vain, but that's just me. pam

hausboy -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 7:18:21 PM)
-fast reply- well, you'd THINK that good hygiene was a given, but after meeting a few new folks at a munch...apparently...it isn't. I'm also not suggesting that folks dress in a manner that is artificial to them--for the record, I'm a total jeans & tee shirt kinda guy. I hate suits and ties--wear them when I have to--but I also wouldn't show up to a munch in a paint-splattered tee shirt....mainly because we dine out a local restaurant. But again, the question posed was not "what should someone wear to a munch?"--it was does it matter to people if someone does...or doesn't...make an effort to clean themselves up and/or dress nicely. And as usual, the answer here is: it matters a lot to some people, a little to others, and not at all to a few more. The bigger question is the effort one makes to be social. I try to engage in polite conversation (no politics, religion or anything overtly sexual), not hog the dialogue, and not draw attention to our table. Unfortunately....not all new folks "get the memo" about that, and it can make for a very uncomfortable munch at times. Apparently...the "effort" does matter. Those of us who make a good impression get invited to the invite-only play parties. The others....are doomed to monthly Mondays at a mediocre Mexican restaurant, and not much else.

RaspberryLemon -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 8:04:49 PM)
Fast reply, didn't read the whole thread. My opinion: I care that people are clean and well-groomed, because that shows they respect themselves and take care of themselves--they have good personal hygiene and they put effort into themselves. So yes, effort does matter. As far as what clothes they are wearing, I tend not to care what they are wearing unless it is inappropriate (this could mean inappropriate as offensive, sexually explicit, or just incorrect for whatever event they are attending--if it's something real fancy, PJs are not ok.) I care much more about practicality and comfort than I do appearance and "presentability" because I feel that is the most important aspect about clothing (in most cases.) That's how I choose what I wear (as long as it is something my Master approves of) and so I don't condemn others for wearing what they feel is comfortable or practical. Unless, as stated above, it is a situation in which it's inappropriate. I don't think it's shallow to expect a certain level of cleanliness or "presentability" out of someone--it's just your personal opinion--but it's very context sensitive.

SailingBum -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 9:16:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I attend a lot of artsy events. Gallery shows and openings. Some of the wealthiest people in attendance will be some of the most shabbily dressed. Maybe that is the style where you live but here in Michigan that is not the case. Quite a few of the places round here have dress codes. So if your not dressed appropriately your not getting in. The housing prices can run upwards of 2 million. So I guess it's a matter of geography. And let's face it ppl judge you on how you dress and speak so if you toss around ain't and that ilk your social circle will be considerable smaller. Not only that if you don't teach your kids to speak and act in a proper manner <like they do on the national news> your hurting their chances later in life to get into top notch schools and promotions at work. So in a word YES it does matter. So dress like a bum don't be surprised if you get treated like one. Toss on a sport coat and tie you will see the difference in how you are treated. BadOne

slaverachel2Him -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 9:36:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherscorp1 Inspired by another recent thread dedicated to "appearance" I would like to ask something that has been on my mind a lot lately. When you go to a munch/party (or just out in the vanilla world for that matter) does the effort you put into your appearance matter? For myself, if I walk into a party and the people are ratty, dirty, unkempt it is immediately off-putting. They don't have to be pretty, thin, or have the "style" I do but pajamas and torn jeans comes across to me as disrespectful to everyone else. As though it wasn't worth it for them to even attempt presentability for the event. Is this simply shallow, or is it a matter of showing you care enough about yourself and respect the venue enough to at least try? i try to be presentable wherever i go. If i go to a party i at least throw a little sexuality into it for certain.

littlewonder -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/15/2012 9:49:21 PM)
A big giant nod to SailingBum. Dress how you wish to be treated because people do indeed treat you differently on how you present yourself in dress no matter where you may be. I've had many a lesson on this from growing up poor and only had whatever the churches gave us or handmedowns. When I was poor I was treated like dirt because my clothes were basically ragtag and you knew I was poor. As I got older though and was old enough to work and buy my own things, that dramatically changed and basically after that my life went completely uphill. The nicer I dressed and fixed myself up the better people treated me, the better jobs I got, the more seriously I was taken, the better homes realtors were willing to show me, etc....

LaTigresse -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/16/2012 3:22:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I attend a lot of artsy events. Gallery shows and openings. Some of the wealthiest people in attendance will be some of the most shabbily dressed. Maybe that is the style where you live but here in Michigan that is not the case. Quite a few of the places round here have dress codes. So if your not dressed appropriately your not getting in. The housing prices can run upwards of 2 million. So I guess it's a matter of geography. And let's face it ppl judge you on how you dress and speak so if you toss around ain't and that ilk your social circle will be considerable smaller. Not only that if you don't teach your kids to speak and act in a proper manner <like they do on the national news> your hurting their chances later in life to get into top notch schools and promotions at work. So in a word YES it does matter. So dress like a bum don't be surprised if you get treated like one. Toss on a sport coat and tie you will see the difference in how you are treated. BadOne Oh I agree with you. I just find it interesting that some of the very wealthy will get away with a different standard. One older gentleman I see frequently in Levi's, an old windbreaker, an old hat, and velcro sneakers. He stands out because of his dress. Certainly it is all very neat and clean, but not black tie or suit. Yet he is never denied entree' because he has mad cash and spends it. And that is the key, they know he will buy. No one is going to turn away a person that has the potential to make the biggest buy of the night.

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/16/2012 3:42:53 AM)
Well, of course cleanliness and dressing appropriately for the occasion are important, but I want to follow up on what someone above said. I work in a place where those with the highest degrees work and then all level of others. Invariably the worse dressed are the most important people. Those who the others are working to keep happy. The level of dress is not mandatory for anyone, but when I get on the elevator with someone really dressed up I know he is a midlevel type of some kind. The really important people wear jeans to work. Some ride bikes. To take it even further I’ve noticed some of the male housekeepers will change into fancy clothes before leaving work. That’s not faulting them for dressing up, but simply my observation.

Fetters4U -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/16/2012 5:05:53 AM)
Good personal hygiene and clean clothes are essential for me. I always dress nicely in public, even for the supermarket -- you never know who you are going to meet there. If I know that I look good then I feel good. It helps me feel positive and confident. Fashion... well. fashion is in the eye of the beholder. It is, however, important to dress appropriately for the occasion. For the most part, I do not care much about how others dress. If they were obviously filthy or smelled bad, that would be a total turn off. If their garb was wildly inappropriate for the occasion, I would notice, but not necessarily disapprove. Sometimes it's just a personal statement. Lets face it, some people can wear anything and look fabulous. Where you live makes a big difference to how you dress. When I lived in LA, the richest people wore the shabbiest clothes. If you wore canvas shoes, and an old faded pair of cotton pants and a t-shirt, you were either a millionaire or a bum. I was a bum, but most of the guys I hung with drove Porsches. Now, I spend a lot of time in NYC. New Yorkers have a certain way of dressing. It is not exactly fashion, though they do tend to be well dressed. It is more that there are things that New Yorkers wear or don't wear. Once you get an eye for it, you can easily pick out someone from out-of-state in a crowd. I definitely have to dress differently for the City than I would for a night out here in NJ. Ed

LaTigresse -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/16/2012 7:23:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain Well, of course cleanliness and dressing appropriately for the occasion are important, but I want to follow up on what someone above said. I work in a place where those with the highest degrees work and then all level of others. Invariably the worse dressed are the most important people. Those who the others are working to keep happy. The level of dress is not mandatory for anyone, but when I get on the elevator with someone really dressed up I know he is a midlevel type of some kind. The really important people wear jeans to work. Some ride bikes. To take it even further I’ve noticed some of the male housekeepers will change into fancy clothes before leaving work. That’s not faulting them for dressing up, but simply my observation. It's funny when you brought this up it reminded me of my son. For the last few years his work has taken him to Lima Peru for long periods of time. Several of the shops they have down there are in nasty parts of the city. Usually he is driven around by an armed body guard but on rare occasion he finds himself on his own. One thing he noticed immediately is that, the locals that work in the shops, come to work in their nicest clothes. They then change into work clothes to get all greasy dirty. When the work day is finished, they clean up, change back into their finery, and go home. Only the very poorest, the homeless, the mentally ill, do present themselves in nice clothing in public. That gave him the idea for the times when he needed to move around the city without his body guard, to wear his grubby work clothes. It would be assumed he was not worth robbing or kidnapping, so they left him alone. Even walk circles around him on the sidewalk.

xssve -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/16/2012 7:29:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherscorp1 Inspired by another recent thread dedicated to "appearance" I would like to ask something that has been on my mind a lot lately. When you go to a munch/party (or just out in the vanilla world for that matter) does the effort you put into your appearance matter? For myself, if I walk into a party and the people are ratty, dirty, unkempt it is immediately off-putting. They don't have to be pretty, thin, or have the "style" I do but pajamas and torn jeans comes across to me as disrespectful to everyone else. As though it wasn't worth it for them to even attempt presentability for the event. Is this simply shallow, or is it a matter of showing you care enough about yourself and respect the venue enough to at least try? How easy are the clothes to take off is all I want to know. I tend to dress up but I can't say as I've ever worried about what anybody else did, people come straight from work, etc. to our munches which are held at a Starbucks. It seems to me that if you have no basis of commonality other than what you're wearing, it's gonna be a tough ho to row anyway, but I suppose you're entitled to an opinion.

OsideGirl -> RE: Does effort matter? (1/16/2012 7:31:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hausboy But again, the question posed was not "what should someone wear to a munch?"--it was does it matter to people if someone does...or doesn't...make an effort to clean themselves up and/or dress nicely. And as usual, the answer here is: it matters a lot to some people, a little to others, and not at all to a few more. I agree. It's not so much the "what", but the "how". Jeans and a T shirt can be torn, dirty, ill fitting or they can be clean, neat and fit like they actually belong to you.

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