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RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 7:05:57 PM

MyBeckAndCallBoy

Posts: 4
Joined: 12/26/2011
Status: offline

I hear your pain. But your pain has nothing to do with the nature of the program.

Also, the F-word doesn't make your discussion any more true.

Another part of the degradation of our way of life has to do with moral hazards introduced by so-called insurance, where a 2nd party pays the premium, but the first party makes the claims, and the 2nd party is required by law to do this.

It distorts the incentives to file claims, et cetera.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 41

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 7:23:54 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyBeckAndCallBoy

I hear your pain. But your pain has nothing to do with the nature of the program.

Also, the F-word doesn't make your discussion any more true.

Another part of the degradation of our way of life has to do with moral hazards introduced by so-called insurance, where a 2nd party pays the premium, but the first party makes the claims, and the 2nd party is required by law to do this.

It distorts the incentives to file claims, et cetera.

Does the "f"word offend you ?
Well guess what sweetie this is an adult message board,and if you can't handle a little fucking word like "fuck" than maybe you have wandered into the wrong site ?
"moral hazards" ? Do you have the vaguest clue as to what you are talking about ? Let me break it down for you,I accepted a job that came with a certain level of risk as to personal injury.I did this knowing that were I to get hurt I would be covered by an insurance policy...this,unfortunately came to pass...I got hurt,they pay my bills...now where is the "degradation" you are referring to.
I know the only time I feel even a twinge of degradation is when I run into some uninformed twit who seems to think I am getting a free ride,it passes quickly and I say to myself FUCK them,laugh and merrily go about my fucking business.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to MyBeckAndCallBoy)

Post #: 42

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 7:51:36 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyBeckAndCallBoy

I hear your pain. But your pain has nothing to do with the nature of the program.

Also, the F-word doesn't make your discussion any more true.

Another part of the degradation of our way of life has to do with moral hazards introduced by so-called insurance, where a 2nd party pays the premium, but the first party makes the claims, and the 2nd party is required by law to do this.

It distorts the incentives to file claims, et cetera.

Does the "f"word offend you ?
Well guess what sweetie this is an adult message board,and if you can't handle a little fucking word like "fuck" than maybe you have wandered into the wrong site ?
"moral hazards" ? Do you have the vaguest clue as to what you are talking about ? Let me break it down for you,I accepted a job that came with a certain level of risk as to personal injury.I did this knowing that were I to get hurt I would be covered by an insurance policy...this,unfortunately came to pass...I got hurt,they pay my bills...now where is the "degradation" you are referring to.
I know the only time I feel even a twinge of degradation is when I run into some uninformed twit who seems to think I am getting a free ride,it passes quickly and I say to myself FUCK them,laugh and merrily go about my fucking business.

Oh come on now. You have some Jack as well.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 43

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 8:20:41 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Yeah,it tends to place the twits into a more amusing light....lol.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 44

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 9:20:13 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Mybeckandcallboy,I wish I knew where to begin.
As it is I don't,and seeing as you sound comfortable in your state of willful ignorance,who am I to disabuse you of your oh so many misconceptions.
Good luck with all of that

I have no idea which university this person attended mike, but on the basis of his post, I'd say he could have a very good case for demanding/suing for his tuition fees back. Anyone who graduates university with attitudes like these has either been dudded or they have failed to grasp what a university education is about.

FWIW universities are not degree factories - they are supposed to be about the free exchange of ideas and knowledge. In this context, to hear ideologues of the Right criticising course content and teachers for being 'ideological' is just plain sad. It suggests they are unaware of what an 'ideology' actually is, and/or how profoundly 'ideological' their own positions and criticisms are:

ideology noun
1 (plural ideologies) a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy:
the ideology of republicanism
the set of beliefs characteristic of a social group or individual:
a critique of bourgeois ideology
2 [mass noun] archaic the science of ideas; the study of their origin and nature.
archaic visionary speculation, especially of an unrealistic or idealistic nature.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/ideology?q=ideology

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/27/2012 9:26:19 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 45

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 9:22:47 PM

SilverBoat

Posts: 257
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline

From the towering perspective of 100+ posts to this site

the pronouncements of a 4-post sockpuppet-to-anonotroll-this-thread really carry just this huge plausibility about the education etc that it claims ... Not! ...

Seriously, if I started plugging some phrases of what a certain supposedly 'new' poster pasted as comments to the OP etc into some blog-search engines, I wonder how much of it might turn up as plagiarized from rightwing sources? Having been around the web since before the dialup days (bonus points for PDP "talk" use?), there really ain't much new about cowardly manipulative people ginning up new 'identities' to say and do things that they expect to produce negative consequences on themselves.

{insert the emoticon for a massive shrug here} ... People whose world-views and life-choices involve use of deception, threats and force against others naturally gravitate towards heirarchies of that in their sociopolitical preferences. Efforts to keep others ignorant of that, by hiding information, limiting education, falsifying appearances, etc are as old as lizards puffing their cheeks at each other and as recent as keyboard-blowhards praising neocon politicians.

YMMV, of course, but ya know that's basically true.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 46

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 9:24:40 PM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

~FR~

I am still waiting for either of the those clamoring that we have a Marxist university system, where, according to them, Marxism is taught in virtually every class, would provide actual evidence of such. You know, textbooks of all sorts are readily available from Abebooks, Amazon, and several other sites, almost any book in question also having an abundance of reviews, so given that it should be quite a simple matter to refer the audience here to such books, that these claimants of uni Marxism themselves have actually been exposed to, that so vehemently propound the Marxism that they claim as standard in today's university, so that we can see just what the heck they are talking about.

I must have lucked out on (or bad lucked into, depending) the wrong school, myself, being as that I haven't come across a single one of such books in any courses taken thus far. What I have in fact come across is the textbooks written by Fred Mishkin and others that invariably introduce the subject of inflation by claiming that inflation is due to giving workers raises. Everything else in the standard chart models of inflation vs. interest rates or the money supply, etc, invokes nothing of wages in the process, even in their own books. Even Friedman doesn't say that. But, in Freddy Mish's own words, and I quote: "it's like with a child or a dog; they will cry, but if you give into them they will only ask for more." I am NOT kidding. The raising of prices by producers, no comensuration with increase in product quality or increase of cost of inputs, of course, never has anything to do with inflation.

Nobody claiming "Keynesian" influence here has the least idea of what Keynes or Friedman or A. Smith or Hayeck or Samualson or anyone else said, not to mention any capacity to understand any of it.

This is the uni's "Marxist propaganda," then? You expect us to believe this, even as you run across the floor in ideological training pants?

As to the professors; I admire their restraint, for the most part, but there was one who kept saying (in an upper level macroeconomics class) that Reagan just had to let Volker go, because the inflation was so bad, so he had to bring Greenspan in to fix it.

I am not kidding. She actually said this at least 3-4 times during the semester. What a freakin' Marxist! Right.

The fact of the matter is that Volker, via highly unpopular interest rate increases, got inflation back to normal and after he cleaned up the mess, Reagan said "see ya!" and brought in his hero deregulator, Alan Greenspan.

Obviously, that professor was a Marxist.

Has anyone else here noticed that the the two propounders of "uni Marxism" claim to be going to "hard to get into" schools?

I go to a lesser school, and I have to scratch my face out to get an A in the few classes that occurs, but it takes me all of 3 seconds to shoot down anything they have to say (cognitively speaking, that is; the slow typing here being another matter).

Any regards, have fun guys. You got a whale of a fantasy going on there.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 1/27/2012 10:22:22 PM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 47

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 9:25:50 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Well, it's safe to say that all those college professors that teach Marxism, which lead to supporting all manner of welfare programs (welfare, food stamps, unemployment "insurance", workers' compensation, etc.), which ultimately inculcates in young Americans the attitude labor is beneath them and all good things are OWED to them.... and means employers prefer to hire foreigners who still have a work ethic.

Until this, I'd have shrugged and said, "Who knows."

Now I know where to file your claims of superior intelligence.

(in reply to MyBeckAndCallBoy)

Post #: 48

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 9:34:29 PM

SilverBoat

Posts: 257
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
Many conservatives have a sense of entitlement that would make Ghandi look like a selfish bastard.

And there was this ^^ earlier ...

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 49

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 11:11:44 PM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline

Beck, I thought you seemed like a pretty bright person, but you are just wrong about the worker's comp thing. Not only is it insurance for the worker, it also protects the employer from employee injury claims. The employer and employee pay for it, just like insurance. If they have a claim, it is paid from the insurance pool, just like insurance. The employee is precluded from filing an injury tort claim against their employer, and is limited to a worker's comp claim. The employer then doesn't have to spend time and money defending against lawsuits. The courts are largely freed up from hearing such lawsuits, since workers comp has it's own dispute resolution. Now, how the fuck is this an entitlement? Oh, and excuse my French.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyBeckAndCallBoy

I hear your pain. But your pain has nothing to do with the nature of the program.

Also, the F-word doesn't make your discussion any more true.

Another part of the degradation of our way of life has to do with moral hazards introduced by so-called insurance, where a 2nd party pays the premium, but the first party makes the claims, and the 2nd party is required by law to do this.

It distorts the incentives to file claims, et cetera.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to MyBeckAndCallBoy)

Post #: 50

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 11:39:22 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

The problem is, we don't have bullshit to shovel in this country anymore. Manufacturing jobs, which used to provide family wage jobs for blue collar people are gone. Construction - in the toilet. Agriculture - too much hard work for real Americans. And on and on. There are very few jobs left for your typical high school grad that provide any kind of a decent wage. So I guess they work at Walmart for the rest of their lives, right? That seems like kind of a sad fate to wish upon your children.

I certainly don't disagree that a university education isn't want it used to be. My son recently graduated and is still looking for a job. I think kids that graduate from undergrad 100K in debt are out of their ever loving minds. None of that, of course, was Santorum's point. The point he was obviously making was that sending your kids to university will open them up to new and differing ideas and ways of thinking, and we wouldn't want that. Maybe there is a reason that 62% of children who enter college with a faith conviction graduate without it. Like, for example, that they learned to think critically.

Sweet, and having your kids join the Navy or Marines will open them up to new and differing ideas and ways of thinking also.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 51

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/27/2012 11:43:43 PM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline

There are only so many opportunities in the armed forces, unless you consider being cannon fodder a job skill. There just aren't that many opportunities for a career in the military, either. We only need so many soldiers. In addition, some people aren't qualified for the military.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 52

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/28/2012 12:18:05 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

There are only so many opportunities in the armed forces, unless you consider being cannon fodder a job skill. There just aren't that many opportunities for a career in the military, either. We only need so many soldiers. In addition, some people aren't qualified for the military.

Sweet, a LOT of people aren't qualified for the military.
And we'd need a LOT less military if the hired help in Washington would stop sending Troops all over the world.
I really don't need to be hearing about "Iran's nuclear program" on the news! That's a job for Europe and Israel,...or not.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 1/28/2012 12:22:42 AM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 53

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/28/2012 12:26:48 AM

hlen5

Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

There are only so many opportunities in the armed forces, unless you consider being cannon fodder a job skill. There just aren't that many opportunities for a career in the military, either. We only need so many soldiers. In addition, some people aren't qualified for the military.

And we're going to need many fewer troops with the new goals expressed for paring down the Armed Services.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 54

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/28/2012 6:29:49 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Ignorance is bliss, if you are a republican

What a lovely sentiment. And it explains why so many on the left are so bitter.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 55

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/28/2012 6:53:50 AM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

they will just whine that they are being discriminated against because of their religious faith and are victims of a secularist, liberal atheist conspiracy.

You might ask Jennifer Keaton about that.

http://chronicle.com/article/Augusta-State-U-Is-Accused-of/123650/

quote:

A graduate student in school counseling is accusing Augusta State University in federal court of violating her constitutional rights by demanding that she work to change her views opposing homosexuality.

In a lawsuit filed on Wednesday in the U.S. District Court in Augusta, Ga., the student, Jennifer Keeton, argues that faculty members and administrators at the university have violated her First Amendment rights to free speech and the free exercise of religion by threatening her with expulsion if she does not fufill requirements contained in a remediation plan intended to get her to change her beliefs.

quote:

Many conservatives have a sense of entitlement that would make Ghandi look like a selfish bastard.

Ghandi was creepy.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Fightdirecto)

Post #: 56

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/28/2012 7:22:52 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

“We’ve lost, unfortunately, our entertainment industry,” the candidate explained. “We’ve lost our higher education. That was the first to go a long time ago. It’s no wonder President Obama wants every kid to go to college. The indoctrination that occurs at American universities is one of the keys to the left holding and maintaining power in America — and it is indoctrination.”

This is right out of The Family's 1950 playbook, and it's tired. One might expect college undergraduates to bitch about school; generally we grow out of it later.

Everytime I hear "the media controls our thinking," I ask students what the headline was this morning. Or yesterday. Or anytime this week. They don't know--because they don't read or watch news media. They haven't even seen a lot of movies. They do text a lot, and they do listen mainly to their friends.

This "Marxist" ideology machine is and always was ridiculous--frankly, if it were true, we might expect professors to do a much better job. I had one student, once talk to me, his fur up, about what he could and couldn't write about for his papers. I looked at him and asked, "Where'd you get THAT idea? Certainly not from class. Write about anything you want--just support it. Whether I agree is irrelevant--and you have not the slightest ideas what my views are." I had another student see me because I had commented on his opening "throughout time, people have...." as too sweeping, as there haven't been people throughout time. His case was "Well, I'm a Creationist!" I told him that even in Genesis, there hadn't been people throughout time. Geez.

Professors don't say odd things here and there because they have a Marxist agenda. Maybe an individual once in a while, but hardly as a group. Professors say odd things here and there because many of them are idiots. And many of them are absolutely brilliant. And most of them are competent and mediocre. Just like any other field. Just like your field. If you need a fault, it's that they aren't as smart as they think they are. Just like in any other field. Just like in your field. Basic human nature, basic human ego. And in the large, private institutions that seem to draw the most fire, professors' main responsibility isn't even teaching--it's research and publishing.

This myth is populist, no childish, bullshit. Look at the figures--previously, 5% of high school graduates attended college. Now over 50% of high school graduates attend college. If there were a liberal indoctrination program, the last 40 years should have seen a balloon in the number of liberal voters. Instead, there's a groundswell of conservative reactionary thinking. Why? Because the 60 year old indoctrination program of The Family is working. If you need a conspiracy--and I know many of you love a good conspiracy--take a look there.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 57

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/28/2012 8:23:49 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Beck, I thought you seemed like a pretty bright person, but you are just wrong about the worker's comp thing. Not only is it insurance for the worker, it also protects the employer from employee injury claims. The employer and employee pay for it, just like insurance. If they have a claim, it is paid from the insurance pool, just like insurance. The employee is precluded from filing an injury tort claim against their employer, and is limited to a worker's comp claim. The employer then doesn't have to spend time and money defending against lawsuits. The courts are largely freed up from hearing such lawsuits, since workers comp has it's own dispute resolution. Now, how the fuck is this an entitlement? Oh, and excuse my French.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyBeckAndCallBoy

I hear your pain. But your pain has nothing to do with the nature of the program.

Also, the F-word doesn't make your discussion any more true.

Another part of the degradation of our way of life has to do with moral hazards introduced by so-called insurance, where a 2nd party pays the premium, but the first party makes the claims, and the 2nd party is required by law to do this.

It distorts the incentives to file claims, et cetera.

Thank you semisweet...as someone who collects on this particular insurance policy I always get rankled when some ignorant twit labels it an "entitlement program".
There is/was nothing free about it and most of us who actually receive it would rather not have gone thru the injury nor the process .There are easier and far less painful ways to collect a paycheck

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 58

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/28/2012 8:38:34 AM

Fightdirecto

Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

Many conservatives have a sense of entitlement that would make Ghandi look like a selfish bastard.

Ghandi was creepy.

When I was working for a homeless shelter in the 1980's, I would frequently meet Caucasian homeless people who identified themselves as politically conservative and who considered themselves "entitled" to public assistance (welfare, food stamps, etc.), while at the same time complaining about "undeserving" Hispanics and Blacks getting welfare and/or food stamps.

The key, I believe, is the commonly held belief among conservatives that all of life is a zero-sum game. For anyone to get anything (a job, an education, the right to vote, etc.), conservatives believe someone else (usually themselves) has to lose something.

< Message edited by Fightdirecto -- 1/28/2012 8:43:55 AM >

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 59

RE: Rick Santorum says don't send your kids to college - 1/28/2012 8:52:32 AM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

Many conservatives have a sense of entitlement that would make Ghandi look like a selfish bastard.

Ghandi was creepy.

When I was working for a homeless shelter in the 1980's, I would frequently meet Caucasian homeless people who identified themselves as politically conservative and who considered themselves "entitled" to public assistance (welfare, food stamps, etc.), while at the same time complaining about "undeserving" Hispanics and Blacks getting welfare and/or food stamps.

The deserving poor versus the undeserving poor has been a feature of charity/social welfare for as long as it has been around.

quote:

The key, I believe, is the commonly held belief among conservatives that all of life is a zero-sum game. For anyone to get anything (a job, an education, the right to vote, etc.), conservatives believe someone else (usually themselves) has to lose something.

I would not agree with that, but okay.

Gandhi was still creepy.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Fightdirecto)

Post #: 60

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