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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 1:21:39 PM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

What about paint like Jasper Johns?

Nope, not even Crumb I'm afraid, just me.

The only remaining relevance here is, the thought has crossed my mind that a prodomme or a dancer would make the ideal collaborator, she could tell me stories, maybe even pose a bit, and she could use the stories for branding marketing purposes.

It's been tried, Vivid and Penthouse both have launched Graphic Storytelling titles, but graphic storytelling is ill suited to porn, it's more like literature in that sense, it has to have a Five or Three act construction, an ending, not a just a money shot.

Vivid gave up I think, Penthouse still has some kind of Brittany Spears/BDSM porn thing that appeals to the 18 to 24 demo. The best stuff is still coming out of Europe, South America, and Japan.

I was looking to break into the older and female demographics (Manga), the 18 to 24 male demo is highly competitive and completely oversaturated as anybody with a porn fetish knows, which is why a marketing tie in would work if it were done right.

[/pitch]

Seven, Five, or Three act, I meant.

< Message edited by xssve -- 1/29/2012 1:25:28 PM >

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 1:22:13 PM

crazyml

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You know... if I cannibalised some parts from my old Jackass-ometer which blew a long old while ago we might just get the old girl going again!

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 1:28:39 PM

Ninebelowzero

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I'll let you know if I get a studio come darkroom together this year.

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 1:31:30 PM

Ninebelowzero

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We could digitise some of the circuitry to reduce the load.

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 1:36:03 PM

crazyml

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We might have to go to 64 bit registers.... I see jackassedness and cuntery aplenty on the horizon, brother Nine.

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 1:38:00 PM

Ninebelowzero

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I can get 2nd hand servers & routers from BT. Should do the job.

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 1:52:04 PM

xssve

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Porn, phonesex, etc., and related industries make money, that's why, they're perfectly suited to e-commerce in fact, the ideal e-commodity: it's just pictures and sound, which are easily distributed digitally, the barriers to entry are low, the market voracious and eternal, it's a need that can never be completely satisfied, ideal, but not perfect.

Not perfect, because the low barriers to entry and easy duplication mean that close substitutes are readily available and competition is fierce.

It is the perfect test bed for e-commerce because if those externalities are ever resolved, duplication in particular (pirating), then the door is open to other forms of media: movies, music, etc., which would then be in a position to generate advertising revenue, but it veers into different topic entirely at that point.

quote:

But as I was trying to mention to Blushes in the Findomme thread, this industry is not like going to McDonald's for a hamburger or to 7-11 for a Big Gulp. It might be more akin to a strip club or an adult book store (or even internet porn, for that matter). These are legal businesses, but their public reputation is quite a bit different than other kinds of businesses. Not so much for the actual business itself, but the kind of seedy element it attracts. Get rival gang members in there, and it can be a real nasty scene.

You don't really know who you're dealing with, and that's why I avoid those places altogether. What they do is up to them, but I choose not participate or patronize such places. As you say, caveat emptor, and if I don't trust the person who wants my business, then I will not do business with them. I believe in capitalism over communism, but I'll admit that there are certain downsides to capitalism as well.

Yeah, and those constitute "barriers to entry" that tend to keep things the way they are, i.e., your legal and quasi-legal industries, if they make money, eventually attract organized extortion rackets, who traditionally control the distribution channels for it, who go for the easy money, and tend to take the path of least resistance, the most commondenominator - the fact that it's still largely and underground economy means that gangbang movies of 18 year old "models" of questionable pedigree are going to remain the mainstay of clip and tube sites, while your myriad niche markets will mainly be served by fans and peripheral studios that are marginal enough to stay under the radar - e.g., fet is full of amateur and semi-pro and pro kink content in various forms and stages of development, production values, etc., and when it comes to the creative stuff, that's pretty much where it's at.

I could be overstating that, things have been changing pretty rapidly, it used to be that way, and like the man said, the more things change the more they stay the same.

< Message edited by xssve -- 1/29/2012 2:01:49 PM >

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 2:25:59 PM

myotherself

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I saw the word 'router' and got all excited....

I used to be a network engineer AND I once auditioned for scrapheap challenge! Didn't get in though, cos I couldn't weld worth shit

I would be happy to help you repair your cuntometer. I'd consider it a public service.

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 2:50:19 PM

MissImmortalPain

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As a fellow artist believe me when I say I know what you mean. But as I suggested to others...look up the meaning of the word prostitution. As an artist have you ever done work you didn't really like? Worked for someone you really didn't like? Done a job that really wasn't great just because you needed to pay bills? Look the word up and I think you will understand why I said what I did.

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Post #: 229

RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 2:56:37 PM

MissImmortalPain

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I think this...

quote:

unless otherwise permitted by collarme.com

is the important part of the TOS that you quoted. Because in some cases collarme does allow it. And to drag it back to my point about paying people for what they don't do...some people do come here for those things(so they allow them to happen) There are more than a few pay sites that do not allow people to do such adverts. But then none of us are paying to be here are we. You can pay for an add block bot for yahoo. You can pay to for programs to stop spam on...myspace, facebook, etc. Here you are getting what you pay for.

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It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 3:06:20 PM

xssve

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Yeah, I know what you're saying, but there's a legal definition here too; one thing is illegal and the other isn't, and that to me is a relevant distinction - I'm not selling my ass, just my soul.

Not to say a prostitute cannot be an artist as well - I believe doing something you love and working to be good at it and going through the motions for the money, whatever he circumstances is a relevant distinction as well.

i.e., I've known a few prostitutes here and there that did it for the money - to keep their kids fed - but managed to avoid being just another bored ass, burned out, cynical ho.

< Message edited by xssve -- 1/29/2012 3:10:02 PM >

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 3:39:07 PM

xxblushesxx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Consider the source Blushes. Someones got sand in their foreskin about pros.
Keep on doing what you do... fuck the ignorance.
You have contributed more sense and fun and enlightenment than all of the whiners put together.
dont let them grind you down

Thank you! I will (as they say) "let my haters be my motivaters". : )

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 3:50:56 PM

payingoinker

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Ha

< Message edited by payingoinker -- 1/29/2012 3:56:25 PM >

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 4:46:34 PM

MissImmortalPain

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But if you judge it on if it is legal or not...well...it isn't illegal everywhere. So you have to remove the moral issue.

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Post #: 234

RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 6:17:09 PM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

But if you judge it on if it is legal or not...well...it isn't illegal everywhere. So you have to remove the moral issue.

I consider morality and legality separate value systems as well, and ethics is yet another - I'm mostly concerned with legality, since there are legal issues w/regards to what I do, and ethics, since there are things I can do that are legal, but ethically sketchy - I can't do child porn for instance, legally or ethically, and didn't do it when it was legal - it does throw a wrench in the works at times in storytelling, since almost nobody starts magically thinking about or having sex only on the dawn of their 18th birthday, e.g., even making a reference to a character having a fantasy about sex before they are 18 could be construed as prosecutable, much less being seduced or raped, even if it's a moral fable, etc., etc.

And, people have been prosecuted for simply possessing Hentai where the facial features of female characters are by tradition drawn to exhibit a high degree of neoteny, regardless of whether they have 44DD tits or not - and the Japanese have a slightly different cultural attitude than we do - how old is a drawing anyway? I understand the intent but it's illogical - not a prob, if I had ever done it at all it would have been incidental background rather than a main theme, i.e., you can't even for example write a semi-biographical or a Sacco style documentary/journalism story about human trafficking or underage sex workers - if they can prosecute Hentai, they can prosecute anything.

Morality is mostly for flouting, I don't do incest because I consider it cheating, it's too easy, and not really my thing, though a remarkably popular genre, and I think mostly harmless, I see very few people actually acting out on that one - and I don't think it's illegal - yet.

Somebody actually slipped one with an underage character by the Literotica censors the other day, pretty harrowing, a real bait and switch, psychological twist, worthy of Ruth Rendell ending, that insta-cured several people of a burgeoning incest fetish, but it's gone now, even that was too risky.

Limits can be good things, it forces you to be more creative to get around them.

Same with non-con, I try to avoid it for ethical reasons, if I did do a non con-story, I'd prefer it not just be a wank fodder, although I did come up with a doozy the other day out of the clear Blue - tempting...

Bestiality is legal, but not really my thing, and I have yet to see any way that can be done without being wank fodder, but anything is possible I suppose.

I may be violating the TOS by even mentioning these things, but I'm basically saying I avoid stories about those things mentioned in the TOS for pretty much the same reasons.

Scat, no, mainly because I still have a hard time associating it with eroticism, and I think it's a pretty small demographic anyway, with plenty of other people to take up any slack.

< Message edited by xssve -- 1/29/2012 6:20:53 PM >

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 6:57:32 PM

njlauren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
Yes, it scratches an itch, so to speak, but what is wrong with that?
For the same reason it's generally not a wise move to hire a whore. There's an inability for an individual to go out and find what he wants, so instead he marks time and tosses his money away. If a guy wants to get laid, hiring a whore is the final admission of defeat. The acknowledgement that you can't go out and conquer the kind of woman you want, so you'll hire one temporarily.

Perhaps that's part of the problem. We've seen LadyPact speak on the numbers game which male subs confront and male subs aren't exactly going out and reeling the dommes in. That's the problem when you're fundamentally a supplicant with no power in the game. At least female subs have their sexuality, but the majority of male subs seem to think servile fawning is a winning strategy. Consequently, if one such hires a Pro Domme, he's not doing a damn thing to advance his chances, he's effectively pissing money and time down the drain masturbating until the money runs out or the thrill is gone.

Let's contrast the attitude to "ProDommes" and the behaviour expected of Doms. We just had what is probably a fictitious poster detail a 2 year saga involving a Dom she fellated and gave money to. The consensus was that she was being taken for a ride. Yet, this is pretty much exactly what happens with a ProDomme or FinDomme except they have a handy book of justifications for it. Oh, I forgot - they're "providing a service". Which service? I'll let you worship me and pay for the privilege? Christ. I wouldn't spin that tale even if I could get away with it.

You'll have to forgive old Blushie. She's not used to encountering anyone with a spine, she's spent too much time amongst her clients to know how to deal with a man who won't tolerate her bullshit. That's why she goes for the attempted character assassination. Classic chick move.

I think the problem with your post is it assumes that someone who plays with pro dommes actually wants a real time BD/SM relationship, and not all people do. The mistake is assuming that people who go to pro dommes want to be a sub or bottom or whatever in their main relationship, when it is only enacting out fantasies, depends on the person. Same way with a prostitute, people don't go to prostitutes necessarily because they are 'losers' who 'can't get laid', for many the turn on is in doing something illicit, or doing something different. Lot of prostitutes fulfil fantasies, it isn't the 40 buck blow job on the street or whatever, it depends on who the person is. There are 2000 buck a night call girls who enact fantasies and so forth......

Your comment about the dom that she fellated and gave money to is off the mark, they are two different things. The story of the dom, real or unreal, is basically fraudulent conveyance if it was supposed to be a dom/sub relationship and it turned into 'blow me and pay me', big difference. When you play with a pro dominant it is all there cut and dried, despite all the talk of being a slave and so forth, you are a client/customer, you are paying them to dominate you the way you pay a doctor to cure you, etc, there is no personal relationship there, not in the sense of a bd/sm relationship (I have been friends with some of the pro dommes I played with, but outside the session it was strictly that, no play or anything). Now there could be people who in the guise of a domme/sub relationship like the idea of 'paying' when they play, as some couples role play client and prostitute, but there is still a rellationship there, a personal one.

Generalizations about anything are problematic and your generalizations about pro dommes and even prostitutes show one portion of what goes on, not the 'entire' truth. Using a personal relationship to extort money is just that, bd/sm or no, if the cards are on the table that is a different matter.

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 7:26:56 PM

xssve

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There ya go.

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 7:42:27 PM

MissImmortalPain

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My that was a long post. I understand what you are saying but maybe I should clear up what I meant. You view many different value systems, but often they conflict each other. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. And just because someone doesnt consider something is moral doesn't mean it is wrong.

< Message edited by MissImmortalPain -- 1/29/2012 7:43:24 PM >

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It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

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Post #: 238

RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 8:00:18 PM

xssve

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Precisely why they're separate value systems.

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RE: ProDoms are fake? - 1/29/2012 9:29:58 PM

VideoAdminGamma

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Fast reply

Hello everyone, I am Gamma. I had to remove several posts here, and hope to not have to return. Please respect the TOS and guidelines. I have snicker doodles and I have a barbed wire whip, but I much prefer the cookies.

Thank you for your contribution to the forums,
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