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Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 12:55:03 AM

dougie159

Posts: 21
Joined: 2/20/2011
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If you know each other, have been 'playing' (how the hell did it get that title) for many many months, then should the sub have a safe word? Question brought on by one hell of a 'bruising' (very very literally) session yesterday. Was totally helpless, Mistress really laying in and enjoying herself (bloody Sadists) and realised there was sod all i could do to stop her. She just kept going despite my pleading and begging for a break. If we (still) 'played' with a safe word, i may, just may, have used it. BUT, was glad i did not have one, if that makes sense.
So, over to you lot. What do ya think? How much more real (and satisfying later) is NOT having a way out, a safe word.

dougie (Got the pics to prove the point)

Don't knock down fences until you know why they were put up.

Post #: 1

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 1:31:22 AM

NyxPontia

Posts: 224
Joined: 1/8/2012
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I, for one, like the safe word. It's not because it's a way out, but a way to build boundaries and learn about eachother when a relationship is first starting out. The safe word lingers throughout the relationship, but as time passes, becomes less and less important. I've never pulled a safe word on a Master, luckily, yet I'm glad to have it, just in case.

_____________________________

"Bleeding Is Believing, Bleeding Is Breathing." Natalie Imbruglia

A slave without a collar is just the mammal form of a chicken with it's head cut off.

(in reply to dougie159)

Post #: 2

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 2:51:11 AM

Whenready

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From the other side of the coin, what NyxPontia said.

(in reply to NyxPontia)

Post #: 3

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 3:08:29 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
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I'm the one to introduce a safe-word at the appropriate early stages of a new relationship. To me it's just common sense since I can't really know her reactions and responses etc to different stimuli. Indeed, I've been the one to formally safe-word myself - partly to teach her that it's not a failure to do so, when necessary.

But as the relationship grows, there comes a point where you think back and realise the safe-word has become redundant. And therein seems to lie a difference with your post. My/our safe-word became redundant - but there was never some edict to formally eradicate it.

Surely if you've played with this woman so much, the act of safe-wording would've/should've meant something to her????

I don't regard a safe-word as some form of roleplay, so there's nothing "real" (or not real) about revoking it. It's there for a very good reason, even when they've ultimately become redundant.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to NyxPontia)

Post #: 4

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 3:32:26 AM

RaspberryLemon

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Joined: 7/18/2011
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My Master and I have never had a safeword and we never will. If I am not ok with something/don't like it, I'm just going to honestly communicate that clearly and rationally with some sort of explanation of the problem I'm having. My Master is one to care about my well-being and he does not like to see me in pain or distress, so if I speak up with a problem he will hear me out. As far as me having an "out" to call something off is concerned, that's really not up to me--if he's doing something or having me do something that's within the boundaries of our contract, he will listen to my objections but ultimately it is up to him whether or not he wants us to continue. I've no right to decide what he wants to do with me--he owns me, I am his property. His authority is an absolute and does not simply end when I don't like something. I trust my Master will not harm or damage me, and so giving up all power and control to him--completely and indefinitely--is not a problem for me. As such, no safewords for us. It would be entirely unnecessary to us.

((Edited for clarity.))

< Message edited by RaspberryLemon -- 1/28/2012 3:36:15 AM >

(in reply to NyxPontia)

Post #: 5

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 4:37:16 AM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
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FR

My Master and I don't have a safeword either. But then, he isn't a sadist. His goal with me is never bruises or more than a red bottom. For us, it is more about the dominance and control than about pain and marks. If I'm bleeding it is either that time of the month or an accident.

We also don't do "force" roleplay where no can mean yes. No always means no and stop always means stop. We discussed our hard limits and found them VERY compatible and so have never really needed a safeword.

(in reply to RaspberryLemon)

Post #: 6

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 5:34:54 AM

FrostedFlake

Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline

Everyone has a safeword.

"I hate you! You are slime! Let me up this instant, I am out of here!"

You see how that works? There is simply just no such thing as not having a safeword.

_____________________________

Frosted Flake
simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 7

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 5:51:05 AM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

Everyone has a safeword.

"I hate you! You are slime! Let me up this instant, I am out of here!"

You see how that works? There is simply just no such thing as not having a safeword.

I tried something similar.
He laughed and continued. I'm pretty sure he hit me even harder after I called him some choice words.
He stopped when he wanted to stop.

_____________________________

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

Post #: 8

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 6:02:10 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
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Frostedflake is right. If there is a get out then there is a safety element/word in place. I didn't need a safe word with Steve because I neither submit or dominate him but when we were playing rough one day and things got out of hand, I managed to say the word 'RED' just before I fainted. I didn't have time to say, 'Hey man Im about to pass out' or anything like that and I had never put a safe word in place with him because it didn't seem relevant. Funnily enough though, he understood that three letter word as clear as anything!!

dougie159 If you don't think sadistic and masochistic activities aren't play, what do you think they are?
Personally I'm too much of a realist. All my sadism is me playing around and enjoying myself. My dominant personality seems to hover around as part of my nature but sadism is a different kettle of fish. I guess the reason you don't like the word 'play' or 'safewords' because it takes the reality away. Sorry to say this but imo the reality is all in your head.

< Message edited by MariaB -- 1/28/2012 6:03:55 AM >

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

Post #: 9

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 6:58:34 AM

SilverBoat

Posts: 257
Joined: 7/26/2006
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Just about every group-hosted event I've ever attended has dungeon/party-rule safewords: generally "Red" means Stop Now. Some of them have other codes for Caution, Go-Ahead, Gotta-Pee, etc, and generally, three-grunts (SOS-style) is a distress signal too. Anything else might or might not be negotiable with the DM, for example, I know a couple that played until she called him a MF, that was their 'done' signal.

And yeah, that might seem redundant, repetitive, or simplistic, but you'd be surprised how many people don't know or forget it.

Regarding safewords in general, I think they're a damned good idea and practice, but they're not cure-all infallible. Sometimes the sub/bottom gets into headspace where they can't verbalize or respond (and some like 'flying' like that), so the Dom/Top had better have their own act together, and recognize the situation. Some players get-off on the risk-thrill (or 'power') of not having safewords; to them the not-being-able-to-stop aspect adds believeability and intensity. That's another better have their act together situation, and not advisable unless they know each other well. And then there are a few lunatics whose blustering machismo (or subisma) doesn't-do-safewords because that part of the image (or worse, reality) in their predatory or whatever minds.

Yeah, everybody's mileage might vary on all that, so I'll just reiterate: Safewords are a good idea and practice, highly recommended, but not infallible. And newbies should red-flag anybody who blows-off the use of safewords.

SB

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 10

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 7:06:32 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

I always play with a safeword in place. I am also into resistance play, so the typical objections (no, stop, etc.) don't work so well. So generally, with anyone I'm involved with, there has to be some agreed upon word that I can use and that the Dominant recognizes actually means "no", "stop", because in play, the real words no and stop don't mean what they would typically mean in a vanilla setting.

I personally like having the safeword in place (although I have rarely ever had to use it). Generally I have only used it when a safety issue involved and it only stopped play temporarily as we made adjustments to bondage gear, etc. The safeword does allow a certain communication and avoids the need of any discussion around whether play should continue or not. As I have used my safeword so infrequently, I really don't think it affects how "real" play is. It's not as though people who play with safewords in place just invoke them constantly. That's not really the point. It's there for an emergency, or some situation that can't be anticipated, or some unusual situation, or simply for a situation where the submissive just really doesn't feel like continuing (tantamount to a revoking of consent) - and I feel it is there to protect both the submissive AND the Dominant.

If I didn't enjoy resistance play, and no and stop could function in their typical meaning, I probably wouldn't need a special safeword in place. But then I would also have the expectation that the word no/stop would, in fact stop play, at least temporarily. Even with very trusted partners, I would not want to play without a way to stop play. I think the safe word issue is not just about how far a sadist can push a masochist. I enjoy S&M. I enjoy being pushed. But there are safety and consent issues that supersede even my desire for pain. I expect my Dominant to be aware of a lot when we play, but particularly when bondage is combined with S&M - I think it's a good idea for a safeword to be in place. But this is particular to me, my range of interests, and the potential risks that are involved. I can imagine many scenarios where a special safeword is not as necessary (if bondage and S&M are not a big part of one's play, then it is probably not as critical), but I would still say better to have a safeword in place that never has to be used, then to not have the safeword in place at all.

Also, if I were a Dominant (which I very much am not) I would NEVER play without establishing a safeword. It's not that I don't trust myself. But if there are two people in a room, I think we both share responsibility around the issues of safety and consent, regardless of what the power exchange is.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 11

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 7:31:50 AM

ProlificNeeds

Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
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Better to have one and not need it, then to need it and not have it. I never expect the top or Dom to be a mind reader or psychic, I have to be able to communicate an emergency to him. Simple as that, otherwise it's as much MY fault if something goes wrong.

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

Post #: 12

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 7:35:49 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

How much more real (and satisfying later) is NOT having a way out, a safe word.

I'm sure it's hawt to think you're playing w/o a safeword, but the truth is you are relying on your partner's ability to read you. An observant and sane Dom will recognize a non-verbal need to stop or time out.

While I most often use "Yellow" or "Red" I have also used "I need to stop" which is instantly discernible from "stoooooooooppppppppp."

(in reply to dougie159)

Post #: 13

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 7:37:50 AM

Arturas

Posts: 3245
Status: offline

....and without a safeword on the initial meeting the sub actually has controlling power over the dom causing the dom to be unsure of himself and she controls him with a simple "no" or a tear ...

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 14

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 7:41:40 AM

Arturas

Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

How much more real (and satisfying later) is NOT having a way out, a safe word.

I'm sure it's hawt to think you're playing w/o a safeword, but the truth is you are relying on your partner's ability to read you. An observant and sane Dom will recognize a non-verbal need to stop or time out.

While I most often use "Yellow" or "Red" I have also used "I need to stop" which is instantly discernible from "stoooooooooppppppppp."

very, very, bad advice. All doms use a single word or phrase, not a word and then an optional phrase, like "I need to stop". Ignore that posting. Such advice is very bad.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 15

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 7:44:27 AM

kalikshama

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Joined: 8/8/2010
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These are all separate occurrences - how should I have worded that differently so you understood?

BTW, no one had trouble understanding what I mean when I used "Yellow" OR "Red" OR "I need to stop."

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 16

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 8:02:12 AM

Delilya

Posts: 4108
Joined: 2/2/2011
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We not only have a safe word, but also a flag to drop when gagged. I want my sub to remain healthy and able to play.

_____________________________

“Love me without fear, trust me without questioning, need me without demanding, want me without restrictions, accept me without changes, desire me without inhibitions"-Dick Sutphen

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 17

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 8:09:08 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

How much more real (and satisfying later) is NOT having a way out, a safe word.

I'm sure it's hawt to think you're playing w/o a safeword, but the truth is you are relying on your partner's ability to read you. An observant and sane Dom will recognize a non-verbal need to stop or time out.

While I most often use "Yellow" or "Red" I have also used "I need to stop" which is instantly discernible from "stoooooooooppppppppp."

very, very, bad advice. All doms use a single word or phrase, not a word and then an optional phrase, like "I need to stop". Ignore that posting. Such advice is very bad.

I can't think of anything that "all" doms do when it comes to playing with a sub. Safe words included.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 18

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 8:13:50 AM

CeriseNin

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Joined: 4/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
very, very, bad advice. All doms use a single word or phrase, not a word and then an optional phrase, like "I need to stop". Ignore that posting. Such advice is very bad.

All doms? Nope...

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 19

RE: Safe Word? - 1/28/2012 8:14:23 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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I have played with dommes who required safe words and I have played with those who didn't. It really didn't affect the play to me. The one time I can remember having a problem, I didn't use a safeword, I just turned around and told her what the problem was and she fixed it.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to dougie159)

Post #: 20

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