Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death"

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Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. &qu... - 1/31/2012 5:47:10 PM

farglebargle

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Face it, they don't give a shit about anyone's lives. Otherwise they'd mind their own fucking business.

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 5:53:07 PM

Owner59

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Farg`s a tear.......

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 5:57:36 PM

Real0ne

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here I thunked it was going to be a pro-lifer vs pro-deather thread

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 6:39:56 PM

erieangel

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I was a pro-lifer (more accurately anti-abortion) until I realized that overturning Roe v. Wade would just eliminate a safe abortion option--it wouldn't end abortion. One of the saddest and most harmful things about this country in that we (as a society) tend not to learn from history.

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Post #: 4

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 6:47:38 PM

searching4mysir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

I was a pro-lifer (more accurately anti-abortion) until I realized that overturning Roe v. Wade would just eliminate a safe abortion option--it wouldn't end abortion. One of the saddest and most harmful things about this country in that we (as a society) tend not to learn from history.

Overturning Roe merely turns it back to the states. It won't make abortion illegal.

(in reply to erieangel)

Post #: 5

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 6:52:08 PM

erieangel

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And several states would immediately make it illegal.

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 7:21:58 PM

amaidiamond

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From: Watford / London
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If something like abortion is made illegal then all that would happen is it would be driven underground.

It would still go on... if people are desperate enough to do something legality does not matter for much, it would simply be back alley clinics, poor levels of cleaning and unskilled practitioners.

(in reply to erieangel)

Post #: 7

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 7:28:45 PM

tweakabelle

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From: Sydney Australia
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The sad thing about the abortion issue is that in the end, all the morality in the world (no matter the flavour) doesn't make any difference at all.

Abortions happen whether they are legal or not. This is the experience everywhere, and it has been thus for centuries. There is no known way of stopping them happening regardless of how they're viewed morally or legally. Abortions will continue to happen whether we like it or not.

Best we focus on the things we control - the provision of excellent sex education to teenagers, the availability of excellent family planning services, the health and well being of the women involved. While we can't stop abortions, there's no moral justification for standing idly by and letting women die for the crime of unwanted pregnancy. It doesn't require any one compromising their moral principles or religious beliefs to adopt this position, it just takes common sense.

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 7:33:40 PM

kalikshama

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Abortion should be safe, legal and rare.

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 7:37:44 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

the provision of excellent sex education to teenagers

Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics � Final Nail in the Coffin

Now a third study, this by Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, revealed some of the most troubling data of all. A national longitudinal study of adolescents, specifically 934 high school students, examined one of the factors used as a measurement of success for abstinence-only education programs, the virginity pledge.

Final Nail in the Coffin
In the most recent study, researchers compared teens who had taken the virginity pledge to those who had not taken a pledge. The researchers found results similar to the aforementioned studies.

First, the rate of the teens taking part in sex was the same. Those taking the virginity pledge were just as likely to have intercourse. The only positive, statistically small, was that those taking the pledge had 0.1 fewer sex partners over the five year study than did those who did not take such a pledge.

However, two other findings were most damning. First, those taking the virginity pledge were less likely to protect themselves. Pledge takers were found to be less frequent users of condoms and other forms of birth control.

Therefore, those youngsters who took the virginity pledge were not only just as likely to have intercourse, they ultimately were more likely to take part in sex in an unsafe manner. This has led experts to conclude that the lessons students take from their abstinence-only education programs is a negative and/or faulty view of contraception.

Second, and most importantly, virginity pledges are one of the measurement tools for determining if the abstinence education program is effective. For these federal funded programs, the government has counted pledges as data that the program is effective.

Rosenbaum summarizes the data succinctly, “Abstinence-only education is required to give inaccurate information. Teens are savvy consumers of information and know what they are getting.”

(in reply to tweakabelle)

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 7:40:02 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

Overturning Roe merely turns it back to the states. It won't make abortion illegal.

It's magic when a person can whistle past the graveyard giving nary a thought to consequence.

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 7:42:47 PM

erieangel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond

If something like abortion is made illegal then all that would happen is it would be driven underground.

It would still go on... if people are desperate enough to do something legality does not matter for much, it would simply be back alley clinics, poor levels of cleaning and unskilled practitioners.

That's pretty much what I said. I'm pro-choice because I believe abortion should legal, safe and rare. It is the pro-lifers who think come off, to me, as believing that overturning RvW will end the practice of abortion.

(in reply to amaidiamond)

Post #: 12

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 7:49:48 PM

amaidiamond

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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond

If something like abortion is made illegal then all that would happen is it would be driven underground.

It would still go on... if people are desperate enough to do something legality does not matter for much, it would simply be back alley clinics, poor levels of cleaning and unskilled practitioners.

That's pretty much what I said. I'm pro-choice because I believe abortion should legal, safe and rare. It is the pro-lifers who think come off, to me, as believing that overturning RvW will end the practice of abortion.

I am also, if i had to classify - pro-choice - because I believe that there are some cases where abortion is the best option, for instance if there is something really wrong with the child and a life of pain and suffering awaits, of if going ahead will harm the mother.

I don't think it's a subject that a blanket right or wrong view can be applied to, though of course others may disagree.

(in reply to erieangel)

Post #: 13

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 8:43:41 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

I'm pro-choice because I believe abortion should legal, safe and rare.

Well said... and frankly, the only thing I would add is that I wish that every woman faced with the choice be given the space and inner peace to make the right decision for themselves.

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 9:33:50 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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I'm all in favor of a man having the right to pull a couple hundred bucks out of his pocket, and tell her fucking get rid of it.

This, "they are going to do it anyway, so it should be legal" argument strikes me as a bullshit excuse from people unwilling to face what they are supporting. It's like saying that since some men are going to abuse their wives (non-consensually

) we should legalize domestic violence, and include tips on avoiding permanent injuries in home-ec classes.

Abortion should be legal because it is a woman's right to make such a decision about her own body. What's hard?

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 11:21:51 PM

ghostraven

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Joined: 1/19/2012
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Dear sweet God. I have to be "That Guy". It should be okay for there to be no responsiblity for being unsafe? We should rob life because it is more convenient for our pocket books and lives? God save me from half the people trying to do "the right thing". The ONLY instance in which abortion is plausable is when there is an above average chance that one life is going to be lost in the birth. In that case you must protect life that is already guaranteed, thus the mother.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 16

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 1/31/2012 11:46:31 PM

SpiritedRadiance

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Ghost, Im extremely responsible, im on a 99.7 percent effective birthcontrol, I use condoms every single time..

Its not about not being responsible or not being safe..

Its a fact of life accidents happen....

The truth is, a fetus cant exist outside of the womb until nearly 30 some weeks... Until then its a parasite, it will die if its removed from the host..

Im pro choice because i believe in living if i get knocked up by an underwhelming act of chance I prefer that my actual substainable existance is more important then a parasites...

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 12:34:56 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Abortion should be safe, legal and rare.

Problem comes in when you try and define.. rare.

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 12:43:33 AM

ghostraven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

Ghost, Im extremely responsible, im on a 99.7 percent effective birthcontrol, I use condoms every single time..

Its not about not being responsible or not being safe..

Its a fact of life accidents happen....

The truth is, a fetus cant exist outside of the womb until nearly 30 some weeks... Until then its a parasite, it will die if its removed from the host..

Im pro choice because i believe in living if i get knocked up by an underwhelming act of chance I prefer that my actual substainable existance is more important then a parasites...

Underwhelming act of chance? Overcoming condoms and 99.7 percent effective birthcontrol is underwellming? Not to mention the probability of sperm even getting there in the first place? and I quote "It will die". If something is not living it cannot die. The act of taking life is killing. Killing humans is illegal and morally reprehensable. A human baby, without a human adult to feed it, cannot survive even 1 week. Is it still a parasite because it relies upon a host?

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)

Post #: 19

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 12:49:21 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

The truth is, a fetus cant exist outside of the womb until nearly 30 some weeks

Just a few facts. The youngest to survive is 21 weeks, 6 days. That does not mean the child wont have long term, permanent health problems as a result.

About half of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortions, most before the woman ever realizes she is pregnant.

A fetus isnt considered full term until 38 weeks gestation.

Standards of care, which is what all medical lawsuits are based upon, states that a Physician doesnt stop preterm labor until the fetus is 20 weeks gestation. In other words, if a woman presents to the hospital in preterm labor at less than 20 weeks pregnant, they will send her home.

Now, if we are going to start claiming that all pregnancies begin at conception, then all physicians will be held liable if any woman miscarries for any reason. Show up at the hospital at 7 weeks pregnant with labor pains, tell a Dr you are pregnant, and he will be forced to do everything in his power to stop that miscarriage, even though its naturally induced.

Or will those Drs be exempt? Which flies in the face of what pregnancy begins at conception really implies.

And we havent even begun to talk about long term health complications for both the mother and the fetus as a result of forced pregnancy. Which is what that would be, forced, if a woman presents in preterm labor and its stopped.

There are so many complications with the "pro-life" belief. Even with that term itself.

Saying one is pro-life means someone is also pro-death. I am pro choice.

Ending the legality of abortion will simply revert them to back street alleys and home kits once again.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)

Post #: 20

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