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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 7:09:33 AM   
JanahX


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Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		Well sure ... its like "lets bring 'em into the world!!", and then as soon as their born ... it suddenly goes to "fuck 'em - go starve and dont look to me for help."

< Message edited by JanahX -- 2/1/2012 7:10:39 AM >

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 7:46:07 AM   
notthetongs


Posts: 43
Joined: 3/16/2010
From: FL
Status: offline 		I hate dealing with people who are pro-life.  They always seem to say, "Just have the baby and put it up for adoption!"  Because, you know.  The system isn't already flooded with children who never end up being adopted.  Without abortions, there would be over a million more unwanted babies born each year.  Those people who insist on this whole, "Put it up for adoption!" notion should be required to adopt at least three children.  Not per couple, either... each person.

It's even more ridiculous to see statements like, "As for rape and unwilling incest that is not a cause for what I believe to be murder."  The moment I saw that sentence, I was like, "Oh.  This person has some sort of disorder."  There's really no other justification for saying a child should be forced to give birth to her own sister.  You know, guys, it isn't nice to argue with the mentally impaired.  Just nod your head, pat 'em on the head, and pretend they didn't say anything.


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(in reply to JanahX)
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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 7:49:10 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

Well sure ... its like "lets bring 'em into the world!!", and then as soon as their born ... it suddenly goes to "fuck 'em - go starve and dont look to me for help."



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM

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(in reply to JanahX)
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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 7:56:08 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
Why D.A.R.E. does not work "DARE glamorizes drugs. DARE brings students uniformed police officers (sometimes with a gun) driving seized drug vehicles, handing out free goodies like buttons, bumper stickers, tee-shirts, sodas, ribbons, diplomas and awards to capture kids' interest. This draws an undue amount of attention to a taboo activity, creating the "forbidden fruit" effect that actually increases drugs' appeal."


So yeah, we have gone from the war on poverty to war on the poor (thanks, cowboy!), then here lately war on the middle class, ... 

Just one success after another here, eh?

Thing is proper sex education isn't hypothetical, there are plenty of schools where it happens so if you're going to compare it to DARE you first need to see if such a comparison is valid. It's not, the children who only receive abstinence only education are vastly more likely to have unsafe sex.




I think that it was fairly plain to others that I was not comparing the DARE program to all sex education, I was pointing out the fact of abstinence-only sex ed and DARE both showing statistical results that ran counter to their stated objectives. The post and article within that I alluded to and quoted in my post spoke of abstinence-only sex ed, not sex education in general

The responsible research on the DARE program (as shown in the linked article) in fact shows evidence that the program itself may be responsible for the increase in drug use of participants. I did not say that AO sex ed and DARE programs were exactly alike in their result, merely that the article given on the former reminded me of the latter.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/1/2012 8:25:17 AM >

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 8:02:51 AM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		Exactly

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The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 8:04:53 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		So, if one is poor, one shouldn't have sex? Really?
quote:

ORIGINAL: ghostraven
. As for health insurance and a lack of funding I must say if you can't pay, don't play. The same as buying a car in that instance. A fact of life my friends.



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to ghostraven)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 8:09:13 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Today, life begins at conception, so no abortions.

The idea that life begins at conception has always struck me as bizarre because both the sperm and the egg are alive.


If you want to take it farther. A cancer is alive. Would we outlaw killing that too?

Their position is silly enough, I don't think that it needs strawmanning.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I always find it very interesting that the Religious right is Anti abortion but they're also mostly pro death penalty and against spending extra to care for special needs children and the poor.

If you're going to be pro-life, you should be pro ALL life. You can't just be pro White-Anglo-Saxon-Protestant-uppermiddleclass healthy baby life.

It is kind of weird how the right to life ends at birth.

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 2/1/2012 8:10:01 AM >

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 8:26:47 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

Wow.

I am still waiting on an answer to my question.

Why is it ok to force a woman to carry a fetus full term just to appease someone else's sense of morality?

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 8:29:34 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

It is kind of weird how the right to life ends at birth.




Now that's funny, even though in a sad way.


"Sad but true."







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/1/2012 8:36:53 AM >

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 8:32:13 AM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

Wow.

I am still waiting on an answer to my question.

Why is it ok to force a woman to carry a fetus full term just to appease someone else's sense of morality?



Why is it OK to force someone not to own black people just to appease someone else's sense of morality?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 8:33:57 AM   
searching4mysir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

So, if one is poor, one shouldn't have sex? Really?
quote:

ORIGINAL: ghostraven
. As for health insurance and a lack of funding I must say if you can't pay, don't play. The same as buying a car in that instance. A fact of life my friends.





There are natural ways to avoid pregnancy while still having sex that are just as effective as the Pill without all the nasty health hazards. All it requires is a pen and paper. And I'm not talking about the rhythm method but more accurate forms of natural family planning.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 8:36:06 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Why is it OK to force someone not to own black people just to appease someone else's sense of morality?


Is that morality or humanity?

To me, thats the subjugation of one race or group of people by another.

Abortion subjugates no race or group.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 9:22:24 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

There are natural ways to avoid pregnancy while still having sex that are just as effective as the Pill without all the nasty health hazards. All it requires is a pen and paper. And I'm not talking about the rhythm method but more accurate forms of natural family planning.




All of which being taught in every abstinence-only program, right? Not sure about that.

In any event, expecting the poorest in our society to calmly understand and rationally conduct themselves at all times under conditions that many of us only could imagine in our nightmares is unrealistic, at the least, clearly not seeing the situation for what it is, kids having kids, the unwanted having the unwanted. Even for those who might normally desire to carry and attempt parenthood but looking at their surroundings and condition and not seeing any hope for the future could be reasonably considered as in fact responsible and caring in determining not to bring a child into that situation.

It's not always about the "comfort" of the prospective mother.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/1/2012 9:25:27 AM >

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 9:37:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

All it requires is a pen and paper. And I'm not talking about the rhythm method but more accurate forms of natural family planning.


Im curious as to these methods.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 9:50:02 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		yeah, me too!!

_____________________________

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Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 9:57:15 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

There are natural ways to avoid pregnancy while still having sex that are just as effective as the Pill without all the nasty health hazards. All it requires is a pen and paper. And I'm not talking about the rhythm method but more accurate forms of natural family planning.


I'd like to see your stats for this method.

I did successfully use fertility awareness when I was married but now that I am in perimenopause, my cycle is not regular enough for this to work.





< Message edited by kalikshama -- 2/1/2012 10:23:26 AM >

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 10:00:11 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

There are natural ways to avoid pregnancy while still having sex that are just as effective as the Pill without all the nasty health hazards. All it requires is a pen and paper. And I'm not talking about the rhythm method but more accurate forms of natural family planning.



All of which being taught in every abstinence-only program, right? Not sure about that.


Abstinence-only sex education is a form of sex education that teaches abstinence from sex, and often excludes many other types of sexual and reproductive health education, particularly regarding birth control and safe sex. This type of sex education promotes sexual abstinence until marriage and avoids discussion of use of contraceptives. Comprehensive sex education, by contrast, covers the use of contraceptives as well as abstinence.

Evidence does not support the use of abstinence only sex education.[1] It has been found to be ineffective in decreasing HIV risk in the developed world,[2] and does not decrease rates of unplanned pregnancy.[1]

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 10:06:49 AM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

There are natural ways to avoid pregnancy while still having sex that are just as effective as the Pill without all the nasty health hazards. All it requires is a pen and paper. And I'm not talking about the rhythm method but more accurate forms of natural family planning.


I'd like to see your stats for this method.

I did successfully use fertility awareness when I was married but now that I am in perimenopause, my cycle is not regular enough for this to work. Also, women who don't ovulate every month will not get the physical cues necessary for Dr. Christiane Northrup's method to work.


I use the Creighton model of fertility awareness. I watch for signs of lubrication of cervical mucus.


As to documentation that you requested, I hope this is sufficient:

Use Effectiveness of the Creighton Model Ovulation Method of Natural Family Planning

quote:

At 12 months of use, the Creighton model was 98.8% method
effective and 98.0% use effective in avoiding pregnancy. It was 24.4% use effective in
achieving pregnancy


In other words, when practiced perfectly, a couple could avoid pregnancy with an accuracy rate of 98.8% but if practiced imperfectly (i.e., not checking for mucus/lubrication both before and after waste elimination and before bed) it was still 98% effective.

< Message edited by searching4mysir -- 2/1/2012 10:08:26 AM >

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 10:18:46 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		The typical use stats EXCLUDE PREGNANCIES!

Effectiveness in avoiding pregnancy

The effectiveness of the CrMS, as of most forms of birth control, can be assessed two ways. Perfect use or method effectiveness rates only include people who follow all observational rules, correctly identify the fertile phase, and refrain from unprotected intercourse on days identified as fertile. Actual use, or typical use effectiveness rates are of all women intending to avoid pregnancy by using CrMS, including those who fail to meet the "perfect use" criteria.[4]

The Pope Paul VI Institute reports a perfect-use effectiveness rate of 99.5% in the first year.[5] In clinical studies of the CrMS conducted at the Pope Paul VI Institute, researchers excluded most pregnancies from the typical-use rate calculation, on the grounds that they believed the affected couples had used the method to deliberately attempt pregnancy.[6] The Institute reports a typical-use effectiveness of 96.8% in the first year.[5] Most studies of similar systems do not exclude such pregnancies from the typical-use failure rate.[7][8]

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 10:20:11 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		And people who are too stupid to figure out natural family planning are still going to get pregnant.  Just what we want in the gene pool.  I swear, this country is in a frantic rush to an idiocracy.   
quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

So, if one is poor, one shouldn't have sex? Really?
quote:

ORIGINAL: ghostraven
. As for health insurance and a lack of funding I must say if you can't pay, don't play. The same as buying a car in that instance. A fact of life my friends.





There are natural ways to avoid pregnancy while still having sex that are just as effective as the Pill without all the nasty health hazards. All it requires is a pen and paper. And I'm not talking about the rhythm method but more accurate forms of natural family planning.


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 100
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