RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death"

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (Full Version)

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kalikshama -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 11:37:55 AM)
quote: Because being a good person, being peaceful, being non-violent, These are all very nice things, and nice things never change the world. Never in a way that matters anyway. Gandhi didn't change the world?

Trismagistus -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 11:38:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: yes, but I also never said I was a good person, I am in fact, not good people, nor am I pro-choice, or pro-life. I am also not afraid to hate, to be petty, to be cruel, or any of the other things even I associate with being bad people, do you know why? Because being a good person, being peaceful, being non-violent, These are all very nice things, and nice things never change the world. Never in a way that matters anyway. No one said you had to be nice. But there is no reason to be hateful. You want to land blast someone because they hold a different point of view than you do? You must go around being a very angry man most of the time. When the gold colored mails hit, dont be surprised. they opened fire with the baby murderer speak first lady, if I get mail for this and they don't, then we can safely judge that the admins have no idea what they're doing. Is it worse to say someone is ignorant, or to say someone murders children?

Trismagistus -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 11:39:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: Because being a good person, being peaceful, being non-violent, These are all very nice things, and nice things never change the world. Never in a way that matters anyway. Gandhi didn't change the world? quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: Because being a good person, being peaceful, being non-violent, These are all very nice things, and nice things never change the world. Never in a way that matters anyway. Gandhi didn't change the world? quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: Because being a good person, being peaceful, being non-violent, These are all very nice things, and nice things never change the world. Never in a way that matters anyway. Gandhi didn't change the world? he did, he made an entire generation of americans too weak to actually fight for what they believe in.

kalikshama -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 11:43:33 AM)
quote: they opened fire with the baby murderer speak first lady, if I get mail for this and they don't, then we can safely judge that the admins have no idea what they're doing. Is it worse to say someone is ignorant, or to say someone murders children? Note - the admins do not read every post. A post must be reported and found to violate TOS for action to be taken.

tazzygirl -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 11:43:56 AM)
quote: they opened fire with the baby murderer speak first lady, if I get mail for this and they don't, then we can safely judge that the admins have no idea what they're doing. Is it worse to say someone is ignorant, or to say someone murders children? There is a difference between a general statement and specifically targeting with "you" statements.

tazzygirl -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 11:45:02 AM)
quote: he did, he made an entire generation of americans too weak to actually fight for what they believe in. Damn, you mean the civil rights movement didnt happen?

Trismagistus -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 11:49:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: he did, he made an entire generation of americans too weak to actually fight for what they believe in. Damn, you mean the civil rights movement didnt happen? I'm saying the civil rights movement fell short of it's goals, and only effected as much as our government thought it would take to appease us, I'm saying that the ultimate cost of conducting ourselves peacefully and placidly like so many sacred cows will be our freedom, that the occupy movement has been set up and is losing momentum by the day because it embraced his ideals, I'm saying that any good done in the past is forgettable compared to what his philosophy has set us up to suffer through for as long as this government lasts which may in fact be into perpetuity if they have their way. Peace has it's time and place, now is not that time, here is not that place.

farglebargle -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 11:53:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Do you honestly believe attacking their morality will change anyone's positions? Attacking their religious beliefs only serves to stir up a hornets nest. This type of dicussion is best when it remains science based concerning the fetal growth and development. Attacking what cannot be proven either way only starts a flame war. Well, given that their whole "Women who get abortions are whores and if they die, it's just punishment for their sins" is PREDICATED on crazy extremist religious beliefs, it's pointless to confront the outcome of those beliefs without resolving the root-cause. Their whole problem is in their mind, women aren't people. At BEST they're breeding livestock. And the idea that their livestock have RIGHTS is so alien to them, it makes their brain explode. That's why their waging this war on woman's health care. Planned Parenthood is just the first, because they are the leader in providing woman's healthcare in this nation. But does anyone think that once the crazy religious extremists purge the world of Planned Parenthood, they won't continue their Jihad? They're committed to Allah's Will. You can't reason with crazy people.

tazzygirl -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 11:58:49 AM)
quote: I'm saying that the ultimate cost of conducting ourselves peacefully and placidly like so many sacred cows will be our freedom, that the occupy movement has been set up and is losing momentum by the day because it embraced his ideals, I disagree about your views on occupy. The winter has more to do with the quiet than a lack of desire to do something or embracing anyone's ideals. quote: Peace has it's time and place, now is not that time, here is not that place. This is your opinion. And you are just as entitled to it as the pro-lifers are to theirs. Having said that, I know, personally, that the Pittsburgh movement isnt resting on their laurels. The warmer weather will bring a new awakening. And that is my personal opinion, again, something I am entitled too. But, as for the boards, personal attacks are against TOS. How the moderators may view certain posts is strictly up to them and the owners of the site. Beyond popular opinion, freedom of speech does not apply here. Its a privately owned web site. If they feel someone is attacking someone else personally, they will take action. quote: if I get mail for this and they don't, then we can safely judge that the admins have no idea what they're doing. How will you know if they do or dont? The mods wont tell you. Unless those whose posts you are objecting too tell you, you will never know. You are assuming they dont know their jobs.

tazzygirl -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 12:00:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Do you honestly believe attacking their morality will change anyone's positions? Attacking their religious beliefs only serves to stir up a hornets nest. This type of dicussion is best when it remains science based concerning the fetal growth and development. Attacking what cannot be proven either way only starts a flame war. Well, given that their whole "Women who get abortions are whores and if they die, it's just punishment for their sins" is PREDICATED on crazy extremist religious beliefs, it's pointless to confront the outcome of those beliefs without resolving the root-cause. Their whole problem is in their mind, women aren't people. At BEST they're breeding livestock. And the idea that their livestock have RIGHTS is so alien to them, it makes their brain explode. That's why their waging this war on woman's health care. Planned Parenthood is just the first, because they are the leader in providing woman's healthcare in this nation. But does anyone think that once the crazy religious extremists purge the world of Planned Parenthood, they won't continue their Jihad? They're committed to Allah's Will. You can't reason with crazy people. I never said your view wasnt valid. I said it was ineffective.

Trismagistus -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 12:02:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: I'm saying that the ultimate cost of conducting ourselves peacefully and placidly like so many sacred cows will be our freedom, that the occupy movement has been set up and is losing momentum by the day because it embraced his ideals, I disagree about your views on occupy. The winter has more to do with the quiet than a lack of desire to do something or embracing anyone's ideals. quote: Peace has it's time and place, now is not that time, here is not that place. This is your opinion. And you are just as entitled to it as the pro-lifers are to theirs. Having said that, I know, personally, that the Pittsburgh movement isnt resting on their laurels. The warmer weather will bring a new awakening. And that is my personal opinion, again, something I am entitled too. But, as for the boards, personal attacks are against TOS. How the moderators may view certain posts is strictly up to them and the owners of the site. Beyond popular opinion, freedom of speech does not apply here. Its a privately owned web site. If they feel someone is attacking someone else personally, they will take action. quote: if I get mail for this and they don't, then we can safely judge that the admins have no idea what they're doing. How will you know if they do or dont? The mods wont tell you. Unless those whose posts you are objecting too tell you, you will never know. You are assuming they dont know their jobs. you do present a valid point on the mail thing, but it seems like you're kind of backtracking over minor points of arguement, no offense.

GotSteel -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 12:03:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jennah Most abortions are done after the point where there is a heart beat. How many things have you eaten that used to have a heartbeat?

VideoAdminGamma -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 12:19:48 PM)
It seems I was a bit premature in the commendations. Several posts are very close to the line. Let us take a breath and possible use a different way to express the same sentiments without being close to violation of the guidelines. It will keep the discussion flowing, and prevent intervention from a moderator. Thanks for your cooperation, VideoAdminGamma quote: ORIGINAL: VideoAdminGamma I wanted to commend all the posters so far. This can be a very emotional and passionate topic. So far I have seen it handled very well (with the exception of one small possible hijack). Thanks to ALL of you for contributing to the forums, VideoAdminGamma

GotSteel -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 12:22:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Take a look at what I highlighted. In any discussion personal attacks means you have lost. Tazzy, according to the Tazzy school of debating it only counts as a personal attack if the one saying it doesn't think it's true. Now I'm fairly confident that Trismagistus has a low enough opinion of pro-lifers that he thinks his insulting statements are accurate. As such according to the Tazzy school of debating your statement doesn't apply to him. Now I do agree with you that pointing to the science is important, reality is not on their side. That's why tend to put up pictures of what they are calling a human being in these discussions. I do however also think it's important to talk about the elephant in the room. That we're commonly talking about people who want to protect the zygote not because they care about the life of single celled organisms or even later on that we're talking about people who care about protecting life forms that have heartbeats. The reason people care about this particular single celled organism and think it deserves the same status as a human being is because they think it's haunted. That said using personal attacks doesn't equal loosing. It does however equate to dishonest debating when used in a certain way. A way which has nothing to do with whether the poster thinks his attack is true. When a personal attack is being used in order to debate in a dishonest manner it's referred to as an argumentum ad hominem fallacy.

farglebargle -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 1:00:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I never said your view wasnt valid. I said it was ineffective. Given that "Engaging them as rational adults" hasn't worked out, I can't see how it's any less effective than other strategies. The Supreme Court ruled what, like FORTY YEARS AGO, and these troglodytes are still stuck on "It's G-d's Will For The Whores To Die Getting Abortions". The idea of treating nutjobs like that as anything BUT that they're both crazier and more dangerous than a homeless crack addict wandering the streets is ludicrous. People who promote such dangerous thoughts aren't worthy of respect, only contempt , an POSSIBLY on a good day, pity. Remember, for all their rhetoric, it's these "Pro Coathanger Death" advocates who are the ones who have been convicted for murdering people. And if they've killed once in the name of Allah, they'll do it again, won't they?

Trismagistus -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 1:09:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I never said your view wasnt valid. I said it was ineffective. Given that "Engaging them as rational adults" hasn't worked out, I can't see how it's any less effective than other strategies. The Supreme Court ruled what, like FORTY YEARS AGO, and these troglodytes are still stuck on "It's G-d's Will For The Whores To Die Getting Abortions". The idea of treating nutjobs like that as anything BUT that they're both crazier and more dangerous than a homeless crack addict wandering the streets is ludicrous. People who promote such dangerous thoughts aren't worthy of respect, only contempt , an POSSIBLY on a good day, pity. Remember, for all their rhetoric, it's these "Pro Coathanger Death" advocates who are the ones who have been convicted for murdering people. And if they've killed once in the name of Allah, they'll do it again, won't they? at least there's one voice of reason in your camp. The fluffy bunny people are getting on my nerves.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 1:09:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Face it, they don't give a shit about anyone's lives. Otherwise they'd mind their own fucking business. Well, it is generally true that those who believe in criminalizing abortion usually also do NOT support any type of welfare payments to young single mothers with children - whether to help with food, shelter, medical care or child care. So they would like to force everyone to have children, but want nothing to do with helping that child that they have forced into the world. Is there a word more extreme than hypocrisy....[sm=dunno.gif] p.s. I believe Hillwilliam and others may have made a similar point, but yes, echoing all of those sentiments.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 1:22:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop why should a woman who took all reasonable precautions (and dont even get me STARTED on the rape/incest/etc) be forced to carry a baby to term if the child is unwanted? What if the father wants the baby? He gets no say? It may be a woman's body but, the baby belongs to BOTH of them and if either parent wants the child to live, abortion should be ruled out (except where the mother's life is in danger). Peace and comfort, Michael

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 1:40:58 PM)
p.s. to all of those who feel the innocent life of a child should not be in the balance, I would like to say then why don't YOU personally agree to pay for the overall lifetime expenses for the next unwanted child who is born because a woman could not get access to a timely, safe abortion? And if you are NOT willing to pay for that child's actual needs during their lifetime, then you have ZERO right to tell the mother of that child whether she should have access to a safe abortion or not. It just galls me that people want to criminalize abortion, but feel no compulsion to help those people who are already on the face of the planet and who are struggling with poverty, disease, and a myriad of other issues. You want to be empathetic? Help the people who are already here and need your help instead of worrying about the unborn. And if you can't bring yourself to take care of those who are already here, then please, spare us the sanctimony about how you care about human life.

farglebargle -> RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death" (2/2/2012 1:42:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop why should a woman who took all reasonable precautions (and dont even get me STARTED on the rape/incest/etc) be forced to carry a baby to term if the child is unwanted? What if the father wants the baby? He gets no say? It may be a woman's body but, the baby belongs to BOTH of them and if either parent wants the child to live, abortion should be ruled out (except where the mother's life is in danger). Peace and comfort, Michael He should have negotiated the terms, BEFORE knocking her up if he wanted a say in things going forward, shouldn't he? If he was so negligent to overlook his interests before the act, why should anyone believe he'd be any more responsible afterwards?

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