RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. "Pro Coathanger Death"

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RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 5:29:13 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

The failure rate of using this method to prevent pregnancy is based upon following the method to the letter.

But that won't give an accurate picture of how well couples will actually comply. In fact, Typical-use failure rate is 25%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods#User_dependence

Higher levels of user commitment are required for other methods.[2] Barrier methods, coitus interruptus, and spermicides must be used at every act of intercourse. Fertility awareness-based methods may require daily tracking of the menstrual cycle. The actual failure rates for these methods may be much higher than the perfect-use failure rates.[3]

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 141

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 5:33:42 PM

kalikshama

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If my chart doesn't load, go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods#Comparison_table and scroll down to Symptoms-based fertility awareness, which includes the cervical mucus method we're discussing.

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Post #: 142

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 5:42:00 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

If my chart doesn't load, go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods#Comparison_table and scroll down to Symptoms-based fertility awareness, which includes the cervical mucus method we're discussing.

What is 'cervical mucus'? Whatever, it sounds disgusting. I'm never fathering any babies. Nasty.

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Post #: 143

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 5:50:36 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The practitioner informs each couple that if they choose to have genital intercourse during the fertile period, they have abandoned the model as a method of pregnancy avoidance and have adopted it as a method of achieving pregnancy.

Completely understandable and certainly valid.

I disagree, I don't think that's valid. By those same standards abstinence would be 100% effective. However in reality, it's the least effective method of birth control.

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Post #: 144

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 5:56:09 PM

erieangel

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Here is the link to the email I received at work today about the BC pill recall. I immediately thought of this thread at the time:

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/SafetyAlertsforHumanMedicalProducts/ucm289803.htm?source=govdelivery

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 145

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 5:59:18 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

What is 'cervical mucus'? Whatever, it sounds disgusting. I'm never fathering any babies. Nasty.

You've undoubtedly already encountered it

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Post #: 146

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 6:01:21 PM

Trismagistus

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pro-death signing in, mandatory abortion if the parents can't both succesfully complete a standardized competency test.

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Post #: 147

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 6:04:44 PM

kalikshama

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All you pro choicers need to make sure you vote.

I'm not a one issue voter, and will be voting for my state's Emily's List candidate because of her economic beliefs, not because she is a Democratic pro-choice woman. While I am not as familiar with other candidates Emily's List has supported, they also seem better than the opposition.

http://emilyslist.org/splash/signup/splash01/

Welcome to EMILY's List, a community of progressive Americans dedicated to electing pro-choice Democratic women to every level of office. EMILY's List members believe that the power of women as candidates, as contributors, as campaign professionals, and as voters can bring about great change in our country. Working together, we can make a difference.

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Post #: 148

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 6:06:48 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

pro-death signing in, mandatory abortion if the parents can't both succesfully complete a standardized competency test.

If I had a magic wand we'd use the Athosian or Betan methods.

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Post #: 149

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 6:58:42 PM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The practitioner informs each couple that if they choose to have genital intercourse during the fertile period, they have abandoned the model as a method of pregnancy avoidance and have adopted it as a method of achieving pregnancy.

Completely understandable and certainly valid.

I disagree, I don't think that's valid. By those same standards abstinence would be 100% effective. However in reality, it's the least effective method of birth control.

I feel the same. It is one thing to change one's personal goals during the course of a study. It is quite another thing to move from a position of being in line with the study's aims - practicing 'natural' birth control - to a position diametrically opposite those aims - trying to achieve pregnancy.

This seems to me to invalidate the entry conditions, and endanger the integrity of the study. For mine, the appropriate option was to eliminate such people from the study completely. The researchers' failure to adopt this policy leaves them open to the criticism that they 'doctored' the evidence. It is a real concern that the results of this tampering appear to favour the philosophy of those conducting the research. I have difficulty finding a convincing response to the charge that evidence is highly selective on the evidence presented here.

I'm guessing now but it also appears to be the case that the study assumes all sex within the sample group is planned in advance and that the participants adhere to the various plans they decide upon. If this is in fact the case then it is rather unrealistic. Sex in relationships doesn't happen according to a pre-planned schedule.

All in all this study seems to me to have minimal credibility.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/1/2012 7:00:00 PM >

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Post #: 150

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 9:00:13 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trismagistus
pro-death signing in, mandatory abortion if the parents can't both succesfully complete a standardized competency test.

I would have been instantly deeply horrified by that when I was a little younger. Having spent some time in the South lately I actually had to stop and ponder that for a second before rejecting it.

(in reply to Trismagistus)

Post #: 151

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 9:35:56 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

By those same standards abstinence would be 100% effective. However in reality, it's the least effective method of birth control.

While some people might dismiss your claim as ignorant, if not bizarre, I can personally attest to having known in my youth more than one Catholic high school girl who, upon being discovered to be pregnant, swore that she had never had sexual intercourse.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 2/1/2012 9:42:01 PM >

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 152

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 11:16:49 PM

Trismagistus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
Why D.A.R.E. does not work "DARE glamorizes drugs. DARE brings students uniformed police officers (sometimes with a gun) driving seized drug vehicles, handing out free goodies like buttons, bumper stickers, tee-shirts, sodas, ribbons, diplomas and awards to capture kids' interest. This draws an undue amount of attention to a taboo activity, creating the "forbidden fruit" effect that actually increases drugs' appeal."

So yeah, we have gone from the war on poverty to war on the poor (thanks, cowboy!), then here lately war on the middle class, ...

Just one success after another here, eh?

Thing is proper sex education isn't hypothetical, there are plenty of schools where it happens so if you're going to compare it to DARE you first need to see if such a comparison is valid. It's not, the children who only receive abstinence only education are vastly more likely to have unsafe sex.

I think that it was fairly plain to others that I was not comparing the DARE program to all sex education, I was pointing out the fact of abstinence-only sex ed and DARE both showing statistical results that ran counter to their stated objectives. The post and article within that I alluded to and quoted in my post spoke of abstinence-only sex ed, not sex education in general

The responsible research on the DARE program (as shown in the linked article) in fact shows evidence that the program itself may be responsible for the increase in drug use of participants. I did not say that AO sex ed and DARE programs were exactly alike in their result, merely that the article given on the former reminded me of the latter.

I have to say, my DARE diploma from school rolled literally THE shittiest joint I've ever smoked.

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Post #: 153

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 11:19:04 PM

Hippiekinkster

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Woulda been Waaay better if ya'd rolled it up and snorted a couple lines of MDA first.

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(in reply to Trismagistus)

Post #: 154

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/1/2012 11:26:01 PM

Trismagistus

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okay, but seriously though how long do you all think unchecked population growth can continue til people start dying from hunger in the streets?

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Post #: 155

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/2/2012 12:26:03 AM

tazzygirl

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Your chart displayed just fine.

However, youalso must realize that the user rate changed in that section. Its not just one method.

Calendar rhythm method according to WebMD is only 80% effective.

The Ovulation method, which is the same as the Creighton method...

quote:

The Ovulation Method, in comparison with other methods of Natural Family Planning may not be considered as being a reliable one, and the average failure rate is about 20%.

The difference? Those who were removed from the study.

And, yes, I agree that it skewed the results, which is why I made the clarification in a subsequent post.

What would be the effective user rate of birth control if we removed the missed dosage pregnancies? The didnt have the money pregnancies? With a typical user rate, currently at 9%, it would drop some, but some women would still get pregnant, even with faithful use. My best guess would be by half.

I used a diaphram because my body hated the pill, the shield was no longer available, implants were not around yet. When the sponge was on the market, it was my back up and double protection method.

There are still methods of birth control that do not require hormones, do not require surgery or implants. This notion that the Creighton is the best method is simply a twist of the Catholic Church to control, yet again, the reproductive systems of women.

Currently there is a study on this going on...

http://www.clinicaltrial.gov/ct2/show/NCT01012596

The results should be interesting.

According to this study...

Women with Unintended Pregnancy Caused by Unprotected Intercourse on Days Known Fertile Days (%)

12.8% for the Creighton Method

http://www.jabfm.org/content/22/2/147/T2.expansion.html

You will have to open up the second chart to obtain the above information.

As I said, the current ongoing study will be one to look out for.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/2/2012 12:28:21 AM >

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Post #: 156

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/2/2012 12:31:46 AM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trismagistus

okay, but seriously though how long do you all think unchecked population growth can continue til people start dying from hunger in the streets?

OK, don't get all Malthusian here.

I'm not an expert on the population thing and neither are you, but ...

Technology, implemented properly in the macroeconomic sense, -should- allow us to do more while using less.

Yes, I know we are not at that point yet, and who knows when we might get there, but there it is for the taking.

As soon as we find our way past the war and financial meltdown version of 'making happy' that some few insist on pursuing, we have something to look forward to.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/2/2012 12:36:42 AM >

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Post #: 157

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/2/2012 5:48:44 AM

Aynne88

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trismagistus
pro-death signing in, mandatory abortion if the parents can't both succesfully complete a standardized competency test.

I would have been instantly deeply horrified by that when I was a little younger. Having spent some time in the South lately I actually had to stop and ponder that for a second before rejecting it.

Hahahahaha! I agree and not even sure I'd have to reject this based on that experience.

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Post #: 158

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/2/2012 5:58:22 AM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
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This pisses me off.

So, Komen will TAKE MONEY from companies 'under investigation', as in their ultra-premier sponsor, BANK OF AMERICA, which is under investigation in New York, California, Federal Investigations...

But... When it comes to disbursements...

Here's what I suggest. Given all the 'fundraising' they've done by exploiting woman's misery, and the LACK OF ANY RESULTS, perhaps it's time for a criminal fraud investigation of SE Komen's board of directors?

What will they do when THEY THEMSELVES are under investigation?

Of course, it's too late. There's this movement by BAC to avoid any more damage and bailing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Komen spokeswoman Leslie Aun said the cutoff results from the charity's newly adopted criteria barring grants to organizations that are under investigation by local, state or federal authorities. According to Komen, this applies to Planned Parenthood because it's the focus of an inquiry launched by Rep. Cliff Stearns, R-Fla., seeking to determine whether public money was improperly spent on abortions.

Women and children first.......

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Post #: 159

RE: Time to call "Pro Lifers" what they are. ... - 2/2/2012 6:05:18 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The practitioner informs each couple that if they choose to have genital intercourse during the fertile period, they have abandoned the model as a method of pregnancy avoidance and have adopted it as a method of achieving pregnancy.

Completely understandable and certainly valid.

I disagree, I don't think that's valid. By those same standards abstinence would be 100% effective. However in reality, it's the least effective method of birth control.

Self-reporting is a joke.

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 160

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