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CaringandReal -> RE: Are the submissives here really submissive? (2/8/2012 4:25:39 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brder
It's been my experience here that submissives here often are looking for the one WHO DOES EVERYTHING FOR THEM. Is this really submission???...it seems more like vanilla world-- female domination to me than submission. I'm not saying I wouldn't do many things for a submissive I cared for, but I just don't have a feeling here that submission means submission.
By the length of this thread I sense that your simple question pricked quite a few egos. Sigh, par for the course around here. Here's my opinion, for what it's worth.
Your observation is essentially correct, although it's not a sweeping generalization that applies to all. First of all, submissive people (or any class of people, for that matter) are not not commodities although we often are tempted in this consumer-oriented society to think that they are. They're not like a carton of eggs in which you can expect to find the same quality in each egg in the carton with maybe the occasional bad or cracked one. They are more (this idea comes from an insightful article I read recently) like gemstones. In a ruby or diamond mine, a lot of gems are harvested and they are of widely varying quality from worthless to priceless. While I am not in the gemstone business I imagine the gems collected are separated from the swag and then graded in some fashion on a sliding scale: from worthless throwouts to incommensurate in value. The worthless throwout class always contains the largest quantity of stones, because gemstones, good gemstones that is, are relatively rare--else they wouldn't be priced the way they are. As you go up in grade, the relative quantities become smaller and smaller. Reach priceless (or rather, extremely expensive grade--everything has a price, after all) and there are very few left. But these stones are still relatively worthless in the raw. They look ugly, like ordinary rough stones. Their beauty has to be brought out with further work: cutting, polishing, finishing, perhaps placing the in the right "setting." All of this applies amply to submissive men and women who are subject to the whims of nature (genetic inheritance of traits and dispositions plus the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune) which some see as the "cutting and polishing" process, and also nurture aka cultural conditioning. Even if one is born with a natural strong predisposition to submission, it may be quashed or misdirected by family, friends, teachers, online buddies, and other social circles one finds oneself in.
Not all rubies that come from a mine are rubbish, nor are all submissives completely self-centered people, who, whether they are aware of it or not, are pursuing a selfish agenda, not a pure desire to serve and obey. But I believe it's safe to say the majority are. (The same goes for dominant people too, of course.) And then there are those who are garnets but try to pawn themselves off as rubies and to an ignorant buyer they may seem one and the same: both are red and shiny, after all. Good quality submissives or dominants exist but finding them takes time. And, if you haven't got what they need, even if you manage to locate one it might not be enough. Many submissives have been cut or polished by inexpert hands, resulting in dull, ugly or fatally flawed personalities. I expect you are encountering some of this. Others are still swathed in their protective slag which hasn't yet been cut away and you might completely miss their potential if you don't know what to look for. The signs are not obvious or simple. In fact, to spot them one must overcome some of the overwhelmingly strong but false cultural ideas about human nature that we are all spoonfed. In other words, it takes an expert eye to look at a rough gem and envision how it could look in its final form, if processed by equally expert hands and tools.
I think your post noticed an important trend: there are fewer and fewer quality submissive gems around (at least of the female variety, although I expect this affects male submissives, too, albeit in different ways) due to the increasingly misandric "female shit never stinks" societies we live in. It's very hard for even a strongly female submissive to grow up these days not feeling herself superior to men even while at the same time she wants to submit to them. She is inundated with cultural conditioning such as "I have the vagina, I make the rules" or "females are of a far higher moral character than crude primitive men: we are their superiors." You hear these messages in hundreds of different forms, and they tend to spoil and corrupt an originally pure and clean desire to serve a man selflessly and without thought of reward and "what's in it for ME?" Again, this corruption is not all the same in all people. It's important not to simplify. But cultural conditioning tends to leave marks and scars on an individual's personality, much like those you find on "flawed" gems, alas. So the good ones are getting harder and harder to find.
I imagine the same could be said of dominants. When I had a personal ad up on this site, I used to correspond with a lot of dominants who struck me as fatally flawed. One of the most common flaws, for me personally, which you can usually spot just from reading the profile, is a lack of courage which expresses itself as an unwillingness to purely dominate someone because the dominant thinks that is bad or evil or manipulative. So that person was only willing to take domination part of the way, a sort of lukewarm mastery, which may have been good for some individuals (maybe even some of those selfish submissives you are meeting) but would have been anathema for me, as I needed extreme undiluted control. I would suggest from this that if you want to attract high-quality submissives to you, do whatever it takes to become a high-quality dominant. I don't think it's an easy process, self-actualization never is. But some find the rewards worth the hardships.
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