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RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/14/2012 12:44:54 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Well, I'm going to have to go along with the majority on this one. But you know, that befits my status as one of the insider clique members who travel in packs or whatever that was. Your post was pretty thoroughly how YOU see YOUR relationships and having nothing to do whatsoever with broader trends. I could pick apart any single line in it although that's pointless since others already have.

In general, I'll make the observation that those who come here and seek to set themselves up in "Teacher" status frequently are disappointed. In real life I want to know the credentials of people I'm accepting information from. Here, on an online message board, no such thing is possible. So basically you just walked into someone else's party, got box to stand on, and started pontificating. It shouldn't surprise you that it didn't work out all that well.

Heck, I sort of loosely agree with the general theme that you've described. It sort of describes my marriage although in a weird, cartoon sort of way. But even though your general theme sort of fits me I still understand that it's just one possible path among zillions of them. The very fact that you do not understand that tells me that I don't want to be accepting information from you.

Just for the record, most relationship... especially BDSM ones... don't appear to start with love, respect, and trust. If that were true, then you wouldn't be posting this and I wouldn't read about 90% of the threads I do. Personally, I'm guessing that kinksters have a tendency to start relationships for kink reasons. The whole "love, trust and respect" gig is, at best, hope and wishful thinking.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Ohanasvib)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/14/2012 4:16:57 PM   
mstrj69


Posts: 295
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline 		Personally I believe the op's saying I think vs I know is reliable as not every s type is going to be the same and not every relationship is going to be the same.

I agreed with him in some areas and disagreed in other's still it is our right to have differring opinions or we would not be allowed to post to these boards unless we all said the same thing. Why bother arguing, the next thread may say something totally different.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 8:07:28 AM   
LunaM


Posts: 183
Joined: 3/3/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HisPet21

quote:

I think he is very right in understanding that a slave or submissive whose needs are not looked after, is not a happy one. Interesting choice of words. "I think." Not "I know." Not "I have experienced." Just, "I think." which implies you are speaking out yo ass, talking smack bout something you have zero personal experience with. It also lets us know that we are talking about an opinion...and we all know what those are worth.Surely, for some the needs *are* to not be allowed any needs... Yeah, like the gal I own and many others on here. but you must wonder how realistic that is No. Not really. Point of fact I never do. Why would I when I can roll over and kiss her or slap her or fucking fist her whenever I want.


With all due respect, Kana, monoPupil has a point. A slave or a submissive whose needs are not met or recognized isn't going to be a happy one. Trust me. If you lock your slave in a trunk for two weeks, feed her through a straw inserted through the keyhole, and leave her to become infected by her own filth, I have my doubts she'll be happy or healthy. There are basics that all human beings NEED in order to remain sane and happy: Food, water, shelter, access to health care. Any submissive denied these basics is either unhappy or mentally damaged. You seem to be equating "completely controlling by slave" with "denying my slave her needs." Those aren't the same thing. You can take away a slave's rights, her freedom, her decision making power and she'll still be happy, if that's the dynamic she seeks. Prevent her from actualizing her physical and mental needs, and you'll get fucked up property. There are people who do this to those they "love." Its called abuse. And its illegal.



Ok....I have all sorts of problems with this post..not with the poster of course but with the ideas within this post.
A slave or submissive is happiest when serving someone. Our brains are mostly wired that way. When my Master says he is proud of me or I'm a good girl it makes me giddy beyond all recognition. He is my Master because I trust him, I love him, and I know he has my best interests at heart. The "master" your talking about in your post is some asshole who thinks because he has a penis the world should bow before him. Do you see the difference between the two men? My Master would not lock me up in a trunk for weeks to prove his dominance. He doesn't need to. I am able to voice my opinion but my Master has final say. Why? Because he bears responsibility for me, our relationship, and our growth on his shoulders. He knows what is best for us and I do my best to follow because I trust him. He knows me and I know him, there is no line he can cross such as the one in your post because they are so non-existent to us they didn't even need to be discussed.
Prevent me from actualizing my mental and physical needs? My Master's are the same. This I have learned because of the people on Collarme. You find a Master that is the response to your own values as a slave. You don't find someone who is the complete opposite because this will happen.
Ok. I feel better. Again, HisPet21, no personal bash to you but I just had a whole wack of problems with your opinions in this post.

_____________________________

~BloodRed's Slave~

~Love is our response to our highest values and can be nothing else~

~And yet she had never felt more totally committed to a will, which was not her own, more totally a slave and more content to be so~

(in reply to HisPet21)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 8:21:23 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I'm beginning to think we need to get an "Ask a Noobie" forum. Maybe we could get you and Lorebook to be moderators? In my mind, this is where all the brand new posters who know everything can congregate and tell us all how our lives are. I don't think I can patent the idea though. It goes back to that old slogan, Quick, hire a teenager while they still know everything.

So you think you know about "slaves" and "submissives", eh? I think you know about yourself... maybe a friend or two. And given your age bracket, the thing you call "slavery" compares to what I call slavery in the same way a schoolgirl crush compares to a 40 year marriage. You do realize, right, that Carol and I have been together for 2/3 of your entire life. When we were tying the knot, you were playing with your little red wagon. But don't let any of that stop you from describing what Carol wants and needs and how "slavery" is for her.

When you get out into the world more, you're going to realize that the human experience is broad and varied. Perhaps then you'll be a little less certain that you can describe it for everyone everywhere. You would have been WAY, WAY better off to say "I am happiest when..." and not try to talk about everyone else.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LunaM)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 8:25:54 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I think it should be a rule that all self proclaimed dominants/masters/mistresses that throw temper tantrums when people disagree with their one true way should implode with lots of flames and sparkly sparks. Leaving only a pair of non damaged sexy shoes where they once stood/sat.


I want flaming skulls that explode. It just doesn't make sense if the skulls don't explode.

Really.


_____________________________



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 8:35:39 AM   
LunaM


Posts: 183
Joined: 3/3/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'm beginning to think we need to get an "Ask a Noobie" forum. Maybe we could get you and Lorebook to be moderators? In my mind, this is where all the brand new posters who know everything can congregate and tell us all how our lives are. I don't think I can patent the idea though. It goes back to that old slogan, Quick, hire a teenager while they still know everything.

So you think you know about "slaves" and "submissives", eh? I think you know about yourself... maybe a friend or two. And given your age bracket, the thing you call "slavery" compares to what I call slavery in the same way a schoolgirl crush compares to a 40 year marriage. You do realize, right, that Carol and I have been together for 2/3 of your entire life. When we were tying the knot, you were playing with your little red wagon. But don't let any of that stop you from describing what Carol wants and needs and how "slavery" is for her.

When you get out into the world more, you're going to realize that the human experience is broad and varied. Perhaps then you'll be a little less certain that you can describe it for everyone everywhere. You would have been WAY, WAY better off to say "I am happiest when..." and not try to talk about everyone else.



Is that directed at me or someone else? It says LunaM in the corner so I just thought I'd ask.

_____________________________

~BloodRed's Slave~

~Love is our response to our highest values and can be nothing else~

~And yet she had never felt more totally committed to a will, which was not her own, more totally a slave and more content to be so~

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 8:39:47 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		That'd be you.... the person who gave us the very enlightening post about how slaves and submissives are.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LunaM)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 8:41:08 AM   
LunaM


Posts: 183
Joined: 3/3/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

That'd be you.... the person who gave us the very enlightening post about how slaves and submissives are.



As I stated in my post, those were my personal problems with the post and in no way was I trying to state that I know best for everyone. I am speaking from my own personal experience as I'm sure everyone does when posting.

_____________________________

~BloodRed's Slave~

~Love is our response to our highest values and can be nothing else~

~And yet she had never felt more totally committed to a will, which was not her own, more totally a slave and more content to be so~

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 8:50:28 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Okay, now for my more serious reply.

The title of this thread drew me as well, so I am going to respond to that as opposed to the pissing match, as amusing as that is.

I agree with much of the OP's original post (though I would have stated things differently). In my mind, focusing into a sub's emotional wavelength is crucial to being a good dominant. But of course, each sub is different and what they need from a dominant is different.

For me, I need an emotional anchor. I can take care of myself, in terms of meeting my own physical needs to survive. I am very much a survivor. Too much so at times, to the point I become a complete over achiever and forget to appreciate the here and now.

I need someone who can bring me back to earth and help me control my own need to achieve (if that makes sense).

So the style of dominance that works best for me, would not work well for someone who's emotional needs were quite different.

In terms of that pivotal point, where I "accepted" my submission so to speak. I have to say, I did not "offer" my submission. That he can function as my emotional anchor and keep me on track has been obvious from day one. Though I have balked at that at times, I'm like a magnet to his north pole.

It doesn't matter how much *I* flounder, he's a constant.

When you have that, it works. Dissecting the emotional reasons is not necessary. Understanding that each s-types emotional reasons will differ *is* necessary for successful dominance.

As always, JMO, YMMV.



_____________________________



(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 8:52:06 AM   
LunaM


Posts: 183
Joined: 3/3/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'm beginning to think we need to get an "Ask a Noobie" forum. Maybe we could get you and Lorebook to be moderators? In my mind, this is where all the brand new posters who know everything can congregate and tell us all how our lives are. I don't think I can patent the idea though. It goes back to that old slogan, Quick, hire a teenager while they still know everything.

So you think you know about "slaves" and "submissives", eh? I think you know about yourself... maybe a friend or two. And given your age bracket, the thing you call "slavery" compares to what I call slavery in the same way a schoolgirl crush compares to a 40 year marriage. You do realize, right, that Carol and I have been together for 2/3 of your entire life. When we were tying the knot, you were playing with your little red wagon. But don't let any of that stop you from describing what Carol wants and needs and how "slavery" is for her.

When you get out into the world more, you're going to realize that the human experience is broad and varied. Perhaps then you'll be a little less certain that you can describe it for everyone everywhere. You would have been WAY, WAY better off to say "I am happiest when..." and not try to talk about everyone else.


Yes I know I'm young and no I don't think I know everything but I know what's true for me and just like you can state your opinion, I can state mine. If you notice mostly through my post I talked using "I" "me" "My Master". The only time I could see my post being offensive is when I said subs/slaves that our brains are wired that way. I should have said mine yes.
However I highly doubt it meant going off on me like I was trying to state that I knew everything which I clearly do not but I have the knowledge I have regardless of my age, wasn't necessary. I know that everyone has differing opinions and on a board like this can can get messy and get hairs up but just remember, it is someone's opinion. The only true way is that that the person holds for them. If someone else's opinion makes you think differently than that is an opportunity to grow. For example, before coming to this site I had a very jaded view on poly. After reading the poly forums, and doing my own research my view has changed. I know poly isn't for me but I did not see before how it could make others happy. I see that now and who am I to judge their happiness? I can't. Their happiness is their own just as mine is my own.
The more I say my opinion, the more I read, the more I learn. And life, in my opinion, is about living and learning and growing.

< Message edited by LunaM -- 3/20/2012 8:55:39 AM >

_____________________________

~BloodRed's Slave~

~Love is our response to our highest values and can be nothing else~

~And yet she had never felt more totally committed to a will, which was not her own, more totally a slave and more content to be so~

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 9:21:58 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		What ChatteParfaitt said... yes, including her jab at me -- lol.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 9:25:38 AM   
LunaM


Posts: 183
Joined: 3/3/2012
Status: offline 		Lol I noticed a little hint of a jab too. Hey, we all need a good ribbing now and then *chuckles*

_____________________________

~BloodRed's Slave~

~Love is our response to our highest values and can be nothing else~

~And yet she had never felt more totally committed to a will, which was not her own, more totally a slave and more content to be so~

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 9:31:12 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		I didn't jab, I jibbed.



_____________________________



(in reply to LunaM)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 9:41:54 AM   
CaptJosh


Posts: 69
Joined: 3/12/2012
Status: offline 		I have to say that as a Dominant, my bent is very much the caretaker protector. I am not at all comfortable with just ordering around. My pet obeys (most of the time) because she wishes to please me. She is the love of my life and my best friend as well as my pet. I wouldn't have it any other way. So my Dominance is tied up in the emotional side of things. I'm not wired for impersonal Dominance and more than I have ever been psychologically capable of "fuck her and forget her". Not every Dom and every sub has the same wiring. I'm wired to care and protect. Another may need to operate a different way. One thing I'd like to think we can ALL agree on, though, is that if the sub's needs are not met by the Dominant, the sub will seek fulfillment elsewhere. It's called power EXCHANGE for a reason, after all.

_____________________________

CaptJosh

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary and those who don't.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 9:44:04 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
I want flaming skulls that explode. It just doesn't make sense if the skulls don't explode.

Really.

Where can I buy tickets?


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 9:55:40 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptJosh
I have to say that as a Dominant, my bent is very much the caretaker protector. I am not at all comfortable with just ordering around. My pet obeys (most of the time) because she wishes to please me. She is the love of my life and my best friend as well as my pet. I wouldn't have it any other way. So my Dominance is tied up in the emotional side of things. I'm not wired for impersonal Dominance and more than I have ever been psychologically capable of "fuck her and forget her". Not every Dom and every sub has the same wiring. I'm wired to care and protect. Another may need to operate a different way.

Yeah, that pretty much describes myself and Carol also. I "control" Carol because it's a part of loving her. She "obeys" me because, honestly, what's the alternative? Deliberately displeasing the man she loves? She doesn't see the gain in that. Honestly, I've often speculated that when it looks like that the words "command" and "obedience" are not really accurate. At least for Carol and I it's more like the natural schooling instincts of a school of fish than it is me imposing my will on her. It's a teamwork gig.

One thing I'd like to think we can ALL agree on, though, is that if the sub's needs are not met by the Dominant, the sub will seek fulfillment elsewhere. It's called power EXCHANGE for a reason, after all.
Me too. Except there are a RAFT of folks who disagree with that. At least one such person I know has been in the relationship long enough to really make me believe she's saying the truth. I'm ill-inclined to tell them they don't understand their own selves and their own relationships.

Anyone who is in the "cannot leave having once submitted" camp disagrees with your assertion.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to CaptJosh)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 10:33:05 AM   
CaptJosh


Posts: 69
Joined: 3/12/2012
Status: offline 		Wait, there are people who believe you can't leave once you submit? Ok, I already had a mild headache, and that just hurt my brain. Ow...

_____________________________

CaptJosh

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary and those who don't.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 10:37:25 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptJosh
Wait, there are people who believe you can't leave once you submit? Ok, I already had a mild headache, and that just hurt my brain. Ow...

Yup, exactly my response to that also. But yes, there are. And yes, in at least some cases I know of, I find it credible. It still hurts my brain a little. I try hard not to think about it too hard. It works for them... and in at least once case I know of personally I understand exactly why it works for them.

edited to add:
And in the interests of fairness, I'll disclose a personal quirk of my own which makes other people's heads hurt. I don't believe in consent and I don't think Carol has very much "free will".

Although honestly, I'm not sure either of those squicks me out nearly as much as when I read about eyeball licking as a kink.... **shudders**

Honestly, i sort of suspect that if you dug deep enough pretty much everyone's relationship... vanilla or otherwise... would have something in it that makes my brain hurt.


< Message edited by JeffBC -- 3/20/2012 10:40:38 AM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to CaptJosh)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 10:56:29 AM   
LunaM


Posts: 183
Joined: 3/3/2012
Status: offline 		Oh sure, Jeff. Give the poor guy a headache. Tsk tsk. *grins* I bug of course.

_____________________________

~BloodRed's Slave~

~Love is our response to our highest values and can be nothing else~

~And yet she had never felt more totally committed to a will, which was not her own, more totally a slave and more content to be so~

(in reply to CaptJosh)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: The emotional side of Mastership - 3/20/2012 10:59:28 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		ROFL yes. Ill-done of me to bring up eyeball licking

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LunaM)
Profile   Post #: 100
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