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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 6:19:12 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

The OP said nothing about " people who believe". The OP discussed belief systems and didn't refer at all to individuals who happen to believe in such systems.


Can you please give me an example of how you might mock the religion but not mock the people who believe that at the same time.

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 6:19:48 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

to Kirata dont know where Miss Asylum really stands except that you believe.

Please allow me to inform you that you don't know fuck.

Thank you.

K.

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 6:35:47 AM   
MissAsylum


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I believe in God, but i am spiritual, not religious.

ETA: I believe in acceptance, rather than tolerance.

I can be right foul about things I have to tolerate.

< Message edited by MissAsylum -- 2/10/2012 6:36:59 AM >


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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 6:36:00 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

That depends. Are you asking on behalf of those who currently wish to mock the LDS faith, and all the adherents of it, in any cruel and stupid way they can up with, without being tarred as bigots, or in reference to openly discussing the extremes of Islam, or telling some good "the Prophet walks into a bar with a pig under his arm," jokes?

I'm a free speech kind of guy. It's all fair game, and the speakers right to express themselves, in no way way negates the right of the audience to judge them by it, or to invent new words like, "Mormophobes."


EXACTLY! It's why (if we wish to be consistent) we have to allow the neo-nazis to march but, we are free to trash their beliefs. Certainly, no one sees national socialism as a religion but, I think it's fair to say that most of them consider themselves to be "good" Christians. If we shut them up, someday, someone will find a way to shut us up.

Is religion mocked? Watch one week of sit. com. television and count how many times religion is mocked. As someone else said: Watch Leno, Letterman, et. al. It happens fairly regularly.

Should religion enjoy "special protection"? Hell no but neither should the people doing the ridicule enjoy protection of their behavior being scrutinized and berated.

Kudos to you, Heretic.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 6:39:41 AM   
MissAsylum


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I know that wasn't meant in the nicest way, but did that ever make me laugh.

Quite cheeky.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

to Kirata dont know where Miss Asylum really stands except that you believe.

Please allow me to inform you that you don't know fuck.

Thank you.

K.




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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 6:42:23 AM   
itsSIRtou


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well..... if this helps any.....

.....just so that u dont have to think that religion isnt humorous I thought Id drop a link or two that even before I saw this thread, I had irked a VERY devout catholic with ( I had laughed so hard I was crying!!) this link....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc--BPM11s0&list=FLBn0U_BdXiF4__xKX0ImeHg&index=5&feature=plpp_video


....and just to lighten the mood on this tread....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Wx230gYJw&feature=related




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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 6:42:53 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I think Leno and Letterman should start cracking jokes about Muslims as much as they do about Catholics. They won't though.

So it`s political for you....

Noted.

Bill Maher cracks Muslim jokes all the time.................but get`s hammered by the pseudo righteous rightists when he makes jokes about Christains or anyone who`s god-fearing.



He brought up Leno and Letterman. What does that have to do with politics? But I understand your need to mention it. Otherwise how will you be able to display your wit. Pseudo righteous rightists...that was cute. Did you learn it recently?

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 6:43:10 AM   
xxblushesxx


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"Are God and religion free from parody and ridicule?"
No. It happens here all the time.
I happen to be a follower of Christ, and when the parody is funny and done in a lighthearted teasing manner, I enjoy it. Have you ever watched SouthPark?
When people who have religious beliefs are mocked and ridiculed, I do not enjoy it. Insinuations about intellect would be one such thing.


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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 6:44:19 AM   
SilverBoat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

That depends. Are you asking on behalf of those who currently wish to mock the LDS faith, and all the adherents of it, in any cruel and stupid way they can up with, without being tarred as bigots, or in reference to openly discussing the extremes of Islam, or telling some good "the Prophet walks into a bar with a pig under his arm," jokes?

I'm a free speech kind of guy. It's all fair game, and the speakers right to express themselves, in no way way negates the right of the audience to judge them by it, or to invent new words like, "Mormophobes."


EXACTLY! It's why (if we wish to be consistent) we have to allow the neo-nazis to march but, we are free to trash their beliefs. Certainly, no one sees national socialism as a religion but, I think it's fair to say that most of them consider themselves to be "good" Christians. If we shut them up, someday, someone will find a way to shut us up.

Is religion mocked? Watch one week of sit. com. television and count how many times religion is mocked. As someone else said: Watch Leno, Letterman, et. al. It happens fairly regularly.

Should religion enjoy "special protection"? Hell no but neither should the people doing the ridicule enjoy protection of their behavior being scrutinized and berated.



Somebody note the date, I agree with both Satyr & Heretic ...

SB

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 6:48:50 AM   
MissAsylum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

"Are God and religion free from parody and ridicule?"
No. It happens here all the time.
I happen to be a follower of Christ, and when the parody is funny and done in a lighthearted teasing manner, I enjoy it. Have you ever watched SouthPark?
When people who have religious beliefs are mocked and ridiculed, I do not enjoy it. Insinuations about intellect would be one such thing.



Yep, being equated with somebody who has a mental disability for believing in God is what I consider to be ridicule.

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 7:11:49 AM   
MrBukani


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

to Kirata dont know where Miss Asylum really stands except that you believe.

Please allow me to inform you that you don't know fuck.

Thank you.

K.


You're welcome and I agree from a Socrates point of view.


Love south Parkians
Don't know why ridicule and mockin are such testy subjects on a bdsm forum.
But hey then again I dont know diddly squad or fuck for that matter.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 2/10/2012 7:25:59 AM >

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 7:14:57 AM   
PolyDommesgirl


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i would like to preface my statements by saying, there are very few people i would consider entering a debate about religion, because to me, watching people debate over religion is like watching people with no programming experience trying to write code for Linux.

-----
In my opinion.

Religion:
• a topic that raises such passion, it can create wars,
• in some countries is the law,
• at its foundation; a book of metaphors parables and stories as told by men/women, that has been translated through many languages in the last 2500 (or more) years.
• a form of societal control
• a means to instill guilt
• a believe in martyrdom and the ever after.


Did you know the Koran, The Bible and Torah, have references to each other?

Did you know the Bible and the Koran condone the use of Cannabis Sativa as a medicinal?

Consider this, originally religion was meant to explain things in simple terms that were difficult or unexplainable at that time period.

In one chapter, the bible says "God gave us animals to eat".

In another chapter it says "not to eat pork", but doesn’t clearly explain why. We now know pork can be unhealthy when not cooked properly. Could the be a reason to not eat pork?

What if the bible is right, but the mankind’s interpretations are wrong.

Flip and interchange some words, watch how drastic some sentences change.

What if God is an acronym, “Govern Ones Destiny”, or perhaps it means “Energy”

What if Heaven is energy collective?

Imagine 30 people, at 30 difference view points watching a car accident. Their recount will be similar, but it unlikely all will be the same. The key information will lie with the 2 drivers in the accident.

It is this same manner the Bible, Koran and Torah, are being read, and retold. But the key insights of these beautiful books, is not accessible to the average person, because we were not there.

Do you remember to put every single detail in your journal?

You need to study languages and cultures to even come close to understanding the Bible, Koran and Torah. Otherwise you are just part of the audience.

-----

Why should religion get special rights and a special status afforded to no other belief systems?

Simple, because they ordered it to be. When the Muslim Extremist killed the European cartoonist for mocking Allah, the world essentially condoned their actions and allowed this to happen.

We need to cope with it and move on. Asking this question is like asking a tree to relocate itself.

God and religion should be treated on exactly the same basis as any other belief system and in many places it is.

Religious zealots are being "reprimanded" for their behavior. Look at what is happening in California. People are not caving in to the extremist any more.

Why should we be asked to automatically respect religious belief systems
Because its the RIGHT THING TO DO.

...when this demand is not made for any other belief systems?
In many places this is no longer the case. Christians (and other religions) are be being very assertively reminded to love all others equally.

It's not easy to change behaviors and beliefs of others.

Some times we need to change our own beliefs first.

----------------

THERE IS NO SPOON.
fr The Matrix
The best religious movie of all time




< Message edited by PolyDommesgirl -- 2/10/2012 8:03:53 AM >

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 7:20:59 AM   
SilverBoat


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The bottom line about 'religions':

... ALL of them have made claims to knowledge that has since been thoroughly proven grossly wrong. And beyond that, from only a modest amount of cynical objectivity, all of them exhibit the usual psycho-socio-economic control-heirachy characteristics of governments, corporations, etc. Whatever honest interest in spirituality their 'holy' men might have had originally, almost all of them have become merely human institutions aimed at duping all they can, and co-opting or eliminating those they can't. Among the few things the mortal-enemy religions sometimes agree on is their mutual sacrosanctity; that they should be beyond attack or ridicule.

... I was raised catholic, but thankfully grew beyond that. If the supreme-being(s?) of this universe started things off with a big-bang or whatever, that's fine as far as I'm concerned. But I'm not such a desperately puerile example of what passes for a reasoning being on this planet that I insist on a human-centric universe. Sure, Jesus of Nazareth provided some adept insights, but they were couched in the memes of his time, and I fully expected he'd have expected us to embrace what could be known, not merely what some squabbling semitics has scribbled on sheepskin scrolls.

... How many of you realize that right now, we're part of the maybe one-zetillionth of the universe that ever gets to participate in life, thought, etc? Compared to that, yeah, what special 'rights' do 'religions'deserve?

...

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 7:29:38 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverBoat

... ALL of them have made claims to knowledge that has since been thoroughly proven grossly wrong. And beyond that, from only a modest amount of cynical objectivity, all of them exhibit the usual psycho-socio-economic control-heirachy characteristics of governments, corporations, etc.

ALL. Every one. Check. Got it.

And you know this is true about every religion how?

How many religions are you familiar with?

K.

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 7:35:46 AM   
xxblushesxx


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People deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Whether you agree with them or not. I didn't need my religion to tell me that, but it does.

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 7:40:17 AM   
SilverBoat


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ALL of them, starting with the Judeo-Christian-Muslim-etc sects, the Hindu-Buddhist-etc sorts, dozens or hundreds of tribal etc myths ... All of them so far make proveably errant claims about the physical universe ... And a few are perhaps more subtle than others about providing food-shelter-money to their clergy, but they all do that too ...

Can you cite a reasonably sizeable counter-example?

...

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 7:43:45 AM   
housesub4you


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Based on what the Catholic Church is asking,in a broad sense if you carry this out to the end, then everyone should be able to offer or not offer anything based on their beliefs.


As an example.....Based on my religious beliefs, I do not believe in medicine, do I have the right to not offer medical insurance to my employees because it is against my religion?

It's about choice, the church should not have the right to deny coverage to people who are not of their faith, besides most of the Schools, colleges and other assorted places the church owns that are not churches per se already offer the coverage

I think it is very interesting that the very elected officials saying how wrong it is to offer this to people, have not canceled the coverage for the people who work for them or their families

This is not the first time this came up

Why just 52 years ago this country was up in arms because the President of the USA was listening to the Catholic Church and everyone screamed separation of church and state, and now look how our elected officials jump in line with the very church they where so against 52 years ago for having influence in the White House


< Message edited by housesub4you -- 2/10/2012 7:44:19 AM >

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 7:46:40 AM   
Marc2b


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I think it was Dennis Miller who best summed things up when he noted that (I’m paraphrasing): the same Constitution that protects your right to live whatever weirdo, whacked out lifestyle you choose, also protects my right to ridicule you mercilessly.
 
I never fail to be baffled by how people can’t seem to grasp the distinctions of freedom - that one person’s freedom ends where the next person’s begins.  Let’s take evangelicals for an example.

Evangelicals (or as I prefer to think of them – nutcases) are free to tell each other all they want that gay people are going to hell.  They are free to tell the rest of us that gay people are going to hell.  Those of us who disagree are free to tell them that they are nutcases.  Neither side has to like what the other side is saying but (and this is an important but), if we respect the concept of freedom, then we must respect the other side's right to their beliefs and their right to proclaim them in the public sphere.  Respecting someone’s right to their belief is not the same as respecting their belief.

The nutcases are free to whine about the “unkind” things the rest of us say about them, but they are not free to hamper our free speech in anyway.

The nutcases are free (or should be, as far as I’m concerned) to home school their children and teach them that God created the earth six thousand years ago and the “evilutionists” are deluded by Satan at best, or his active agents at worst.  They are not free to demand that public school science classes teach their nonsense as though it were fact. 

Correction: they are free to demand it (and we are free to tell them to get bent), but they are not free to actually implement it.  The government must remain strictly neutral and keep religion and science (or as I prefer to think of them, fantasy and reality) separate.  If little Johnny’s parents have a problem with his teacher telling him that the earth in 4.5 billion years old, then little Johnny’s parents are free to send him to a private school or home school him.

There is also the distinction of words and action.  The above is one example.  Fred Phelps and his demented clan are another.  They are free to make nasty websites about who is burning in hell and they are free to shout about it in the public sphere.  They are not free to actually try and send gay people directly to hell.  Want to start your own religion that calls for sacrificing twelve year old virgins by tossing them into a volcano… you are free to proclaim your new religion all you want (don’t be surprised though if other people use their freedom and give you a lot of negative feedback).  The moment you try to toss a twelve year old girl into a volcano, however… well, it should be obvious.

For another example, let’s take the other CM (or as I like to think of them, the evil CM), Critical Mass.  They are free to whine about autos and the need for more bike lanes all they want.  They are not free to deliberately obstruct traffic.  When they do obstruct traffic, you are free to call them a bunch of pansy, self-centered, obnoxious, twats.  You are not free to run them over (as tempting as that would be).  It is a matter for the police to handle.

On the other hand, if you are trying to rush your dying child to the emergency room and the obnoxious twats refuse to get out of the way, then their actions are directly harming your child… FLOOR IT!

It is just a matter of seeing the distinctions.

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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 7:50:51 AM   
PolyDommesgirl


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If i may interject, Buddhism, does not pray to a deity and to the best of my knowledge, (as i have only started to study Buddhism in the last 12 months) deals with with the non physical universe. It deals more with meditation and energy.

It is hard to label it a religion. To me it is more like a culture.

i am a student, i could be wrong. i am open to learning. Strike that, i love learning.

< Message edited by PolyDommesgirl -- 2/10/2012 8:00:07 AM >


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RE: Special rights for religion? - 2/10/2012 7:51:32 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Unitarianism because it IMO is not an actual religion since it has no belief on the existence or nonexistence of God.


"Unitarians... hmmph... athesits hedging their bets."
- My Grandpa



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