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RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/14/2012 11:45:02 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I don't disagree that the mom on the clip never bothered to consider birth control. Still, those who truly believe that every life is sacred should not want to see her children (who are all remarkably good looking, by the way) living in such circumstances. I find it amazing that the state has to step in, rather than a right to life organization.
As to separating my tax dollars, good point. I think that family size limitations should be part of the program. People who choose to have larger families should look to religious and charitable organizations for the difference.
My role as an employer is much easier. Under the logic that is being used by the church to justify this birth control debacle, I should have the right to limit health insurance offered to my employees to only those with smaller families. And yet, I bet that won't be allowed.

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Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/14/2012 11:51:54 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Why Viagra is covered but vasectomy isnt!!!
interesting piece in NPR today
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/02/13/146822713/why-catholic-groups-health-plans-say-no-to-contraceptives-yes-to-viagra

Quick FR< I believe the same as Peon and Tweaks comments.It is for me absolutely the right over my own body. I honestly think tho that is a cultural belief more than a political

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RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/14/2012 12:05:10 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I don't disagree that the mom on the clip never bothered to consider birth control. Still, those who truly believe that every life is sacred should not want to see her children (who are all remarkably good looking, by the way) living in such circumstances. I find it amazing that the state has to step in, rather than a right to life organization.
As to separating my tax dollars, good point. I think that family size limitations should be part of the program. People who choose to have larger families should look to religious and charitable organizations for the difference.
My role as an employer is much easier. Under the logic that is being used by the church to justify this birth control debacle, I should have the right to limit health insurance offered to my employees to only those with smaller families. And yet, I bet that won't be allowed.


I am leery of risking the application of family size limits. Look how well that works for other countries.

Controlling reproductive systems in that aspect does not sit well with me either. Its another slippery slope.... ending with forced sterilization? A chilling thought.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/14/2012 12:06:00 PM >

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RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/14/2012 12:20:12 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		But that is what this whole debate boils down to - family size. The church wants and expects women to have as many children as god sends them. Just like in the 15 th century.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/14/2012 12:33:43 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I agree, that is what they seem to want. They also want to legislate morality. The way of thinking is that if women do not have access to birth control and abortions, they will have no choice but to stop having sex outside of marriage. I wonder how many men realize they are cutting their dicks off to spite their nuts. *yeah a bit graphic, but I think the sentiment appropriate*

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/14/2012 3:37:44 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

But I gotta pay for health care for your 10 kids? And I only had 2? How is that right? If people want to have litters, they should pay for education and health care out of their own pockets.


Why?  Factory owners pay for the development of the machinery that they use, why shouldn't they help pay for the development of the people they use in their factories, too? 

To take this to the nth degree:  look at the situation with conscripts in the First World War.  On the one hand, society had told the parents of kids born in the late 1890s that their children were entirely the responsibility of the parents - in that fine old style of classical liberalism. 

But, come the War - oh no!  Suddenly, the rulers decided that not only did these kids, and their parents, owe society - they owed that society  (which had done bugger all for them) their very lives in the trenches on the front line . . . .

Nup.  Society has a responsibility towards its members, especially its newest members, because it'll be demanding its pound of flesh later on from them.  Certainly - re a topical debate today about the increasingly aged populations of Western countries - adults today won't be complaining when they get to pensionable age and rely upon the income generated by all those kids who will, by then, have grown up and will be working and paying to keep said old people - that is, ourselves - alive.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 2/14/2012 3:38:14 PM >

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RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/14/2012 4:00:39 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Well for one thing, we don't need more factory workers. If anything, we need less.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/14/2012 8:16:18 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

But I gotta pay for health care for your 10 kids? And I only had 2? How is that right? If people want to have litters, they should pay for education and health care out of their own pockets.
U
quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

It isn't really about the 'right to control one's own body'.
In cases of abortion it is about the right to control another (unborn) person's body.

In cases of birth control it is about who has to pay for your right to control your body (i.e., if you want my rosaries off your ovaries, don't expect me to pay for either your abortion or your birth control...pay for it out of pocket).


If the real concern is financial, then why aren't these people complaining about subsidising the healthcare costs of smokers, or careless drivers who cause multiple injuries to innocent bystanders or other motorists?

The real objection here is to birth control for anyone, the complaints about the financial costs merely camouflague this objection. All in all a deceptive and dishonest argument.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/14/2012 8:17:02 PM >

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RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/14/2012 11:32:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

If the real concern is financial, then why aren't these people complaining about subsidising the healthcare costs of smokers, or careless drivers who cause multiple injuries to innocent bystanders or other motorists?

The real objection here is to birth control for anyone, the complaints about the financial costs merely camouflague this objection. All in all a deceptive and dishonest argument.


To hear them tell it, alcohol consumption is a sin. Yet I dont see them out there trying to ban alcohol. Abortion is the target.

Yes, I know the stats relate only 80,000 deaths a year to alcohol, but the numbers are far greater. Cirrhosis of the liver causes a great many deaths, esophageal varices causes a number of deaths related to drinking. Yet these deaths are rarely stated as saused by alcohol, instead they are attributed to the organ failure.

If the religious movement was so concerned about life and death, they would be out in force against drinking.

Thankfully, for me, they arent. I like my tequila.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/14/2012 11:58:13 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

But that is what this whole debate boils down to - family size. The church wants and expects women to have as many children as god sends them. Just like in the 15 th century.

Google "Quiverfull" and find out for yourself about this movement/organization. In brief, they believe that their version of "God" wants you to have as many children as physically possible. Subtext - we have to outbreed those non-"Christians" (to include those Christians who disagree with us) or they will overwhelm us by sheer numbers.

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RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/15/2012 5:49:02 AM   
masternoname


Posts: 164
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline 		public assistance should be limited to two kids

that is an interesting thought

so do we force the mothers to have abortions if they get pregnant the third time or just pop around every once in a while and shoot the extras

sorry but if this post was supposed to make the catholics look bad because they think life is sacred it was a really big fail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

It shouldn't matter. The religious right claims every human life is sacred and we should have as many children as god sends us. I don't feel that way. I believe public assistance should be limited to no more than two children. Bet she wouldn't have had 15 kids by age 37 if it were. So, since this is my fervent belief, why should I pay for social services for morons with big families?


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RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/15/2012 8:15:11 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		The churches will support them. Obviously. Just as long as I don't have to. Or someone who thinks they need to have a bunch of kids can get a job to support them. I just don't believe that I owe some stupid bitch who keeps knocking out kids a living.


quote:

ORIGINAL: masternoname


so do we force the mothers to have abortions if they get pregnant the third time or just pop around every once in a while and shoot the extras

sorry but if this post was supposed to make the catholics look bad because they think life is sacred it was a really big fail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

It shouldn't matter. The religious right claims every human life is sacred and we should have as many children as god sends us. I don't feel that way. I believe public assistance should be limited to no more than two children. Bet she wouldn't have had 15 kids by age 37 if it were. So, since this is my fervent belief, why should I pay for social services for morons with big families?




_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to masternoname)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/15/2012 8:18:20 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Mormons believe a version of that. They teach that there are souls waiting to come to earth. It is our duty to breed so that all the souls can come to earth in a physical body. Once they do, the world can end. Certainly no reason to worry about resources or protection of the environment in that scenario, is there?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

But that is what this whole debate boils down to - family size. The church wants and expects women to have as many children as god sends them. Just like in the 15 th century.

Google "Quiverfull" and find out for yourself about this movement/organization. In brief, they believe that their version of "God" wants you to have as many children as physically possible. Subtext - we have to outbreed those non-"Christians" (to include those Christians who disagree with us) or they will overwhelm us by sheer numbers.


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Fightdirecto)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/15/2012 9:51:27 AM   
masternoname


Posts: 164
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline 		and they say republicans dont give a shit about the kids

maybe you should switch side

quote:

The churches will support them. Obviously. Just as long as I don't have to. Or someone who thinks they need to have a bunch of kids can get a job to support them. I just don't believe that I owe some stupid bitch who keeps knocking out kids a living.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: What the fuck is wrong with these people?!? - 2/15/2012 4:23:22 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		Well it will continue to be interesting to see how this battle plays out since a majority of Americans are with Obama on this one....

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/public-backs-obama-birth-control-fight-poll-suggests-205113637.html

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