RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?'

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Hillwilliam -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 10:45:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xssve quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: xssve Look, males, biologically, are much more expendable than females, by simple virtue of the fact that a single male can impregnate multiple females - I don't like that fact one little bit, doesn't make it any less true. He could impregnate several but, in an archaic environment, he could not enjoy reproductive success because he would be unable to feed and defend them. 2, maybe. 3 or more, ain't happenin. They're leopard food. Be that as it may, optimal or no, the rule still holds. It's called r strategy, have enough offspring and it increases the chances that at least a percentage of them will survive. Thought you said you knew something about biology. And yes, Humans, like most mammals, are K strategists, although among mammals, MPI is seldom as common as it is among humans, although herd behaviors tend to compensate for that to a degree - one is probably more likely to find higher incidences MPI in avian species where the female has to stay in the nest and warm the egg and can't go out looking for food. But yes, it is also the reason that while rape is a strategy, it's usually a piss poor one, Genghis Khan notwithstanding. As for the archaic environment in which humans got their hardwired behaviors, they are more remote from Ghengis Khan than Khan was from the International Space Station. Your r strategy if fine for an animal like the codfish that has millions of eggs. It doesn't work with humans or others that have comparatively few offspring who are slow to mature. My claim is that the strategy is not just suboptimal. It is so poor as to be an evolutionary dead end. As for my biological knowlege, I taught it on a few university campuses. What's your claim to fame?

tazzygirl -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 10:47:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: xssve quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: xssve Look, males, biologically, are much more expendable than females, by simple virtue of the fact that a single male can impregnate multiple females - I don't like that fact one little bit, doesn't make it any less true. He could impregnate several but, in an archaic environment, he could not enjoy reproductive success because he would be unable to feed and defend them. 2, maybe. 3 or more, ain't happenin. They're leopard food. Be that as it may, optimal or no, the rule still holds. It's called r strategy, have enough offspring and it increases the chances that at least a percentage of them will survive. Thought you said you knew something about biology. And yes, Humans, like most mammals, are K strategists, although among mammals, MPI is seldom as common as it is among humans, although herd behaviors tend to compensate for that to a degree - one is probably more likely to find higher incidences MPI in avian species where the female has to stay in the nest and warm the egg and can't go out looking for food. But yes, it is also the reason that while rape is a strategy, it's usually a piss poor one, Genghis Khan notwithstanding. As for the archaic environment in which humans got their hardwired behaviors, they are more remote from Ghengis Khan than Khan was from the International Space Station. Your r strategy if fine for an animal like the codfish that has millions of eggs. It doesn't work with humans or others that have comparatively few offspring who are slow to mature. My claim is that the strategy is not just suboptimal. It is so poor as to be an evolutionary dead end. As for my biological knowlege, I taught it on a few university campuses. What's your claim to fame? Ah so the man who wont identify his own field of study is questioning someone else's? How rich is that!!!!

tweakabelle -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 10:50:31 AM)
quote: NEVER SAID IT WAS A "GOOD" STRATEGY, SAID IT WAS "A STRATEGY". I hate to shout, but Jesus, it's complicated enough without making shit up. WRONG. You can't even quote yourself without screwing up. What you claimed was: ".... and rape, although I proved it to be a successful means of reproduction, I also mentioned is not the most optimal means by a long shot, it's a relatively marginal one, just successful enough to keep the trait recurrent, not enough to activate it on a broad scale." (post #126 on page 7 of this thread) "Successful" usually has a positive connotation to it wouldn't you agree? And "proved"?????? Who are you trying to kid? Yourself? It sure doesn't look like anyone else here is fooled does it?

xssve -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 10:50:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I would also like to include that biology has its own way of ensuring the survival of the species. Its not just by chance that a child looks like it's biological father. K strategy, a biological reinforcement of the pair bond, just like love - both genetic adaptations largely confined to humans, but r strategies are still in evidence, Quiverfulls are basically r strategists.

xssve -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 10:53:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: NEVER SAID IT WAS A "GOOD" STRATEGY, SAID IT WAS "A STRATEGY". I hate to shout, but Jesus, it's complicated enough without making shit up. WRONG. You can't even quote yourself without screwing up. What you claimed was: and rape, although I proved it to be a successful means of reproduction, I also mentioned is not the most optimal means by a long shot, it's a relatively marginal one, just successful enough to keep the trait recurrent, not enough to activate it on a broad scale. (post #126 on page 7 of this thread) "Successful" usually has a positive connotation to it wouldn't you agree? Lol, no, "successful" doesn't mean good or optimal in biology, in biology "successful" means it isn't extinct yet.

tazzygirl -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 10:54:30 AM)
quote: a biological reinforcement of the pair bond, just like love Only if you mean the bond between father and child. And its quite effective.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 10:56:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xssve Quiverfulls are basically r strategists. Incorrect. Monogamous pair with the male working to support the female and offspring. Classic K strategy. As for # of offspring, 20 is VERY low for the animal kingdom.

tweakabelle -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:01:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xssve quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: NEVER SAID IT WAS A "GOOD" STRATEGY, SAID IT WAS "A STRATEGY". I hate to shout, but Jesus, it's complicated enough without making shit up. WRONG. You can't even quote yourself without screwing up. What you claimed was: and rape, although I proved it to be a successful means of reproduction, I also mentioned is not the most optimal means by a long shot, it's a relatively marginal one, just successful enough to keep the trait recurrent, not enough to activate it on a broad scale. (post #126 on page 7 of this thread) "Successful" usually has a positive connotation to it wouldn't you agree? Lol, no, "successful" doesn't mean good or optimal in biology, in biology "successful" means it isn't extinct yet. Do excuse me for introducing a note of reality into your fantasy world - but this is not a biology seminar. It is a bulletin board. "Successful" here has its standard English meaning. I note you saw fit to decline to tell us anything about this miraculous 'proof' you claim. Is it as ephemeral as the rest of your nonsense? I also note that those people here with credible claims to qualifications in Biology are as dismissive of your gibberish as I am .........(see eg post # 187). I wonder if your experience on "university campuses" amounted to anything more than helping the gardeners out.

tazzygirl -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:02:28 AM)
Has he ever told you what he does for a living, tweak? What his field of study is?

Hillwilliam -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:02:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xssve Lol, no, "successful" doesn't mean good or optimal in biology, in biology "successful" means it isn't extinct yet. Incorrect again. "Successful" means that it outcompetes the alternatives. Albinism isn't 'successful' by any stretch of the imagination but it exists nonetheless. Due to the fact that only a very tiny percentage of humans are born as a result of rape even in a modern environment where being consumed by a leopard is a very minor worry, it can be inferred that this strategy is unsuccessful.

xssve -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:04:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: xssve Quiverfulls are basically r strategists. Incorrect. Monogamous pair with the male working to support the female and offspring. Classic K strategy. As for # of offspring, 20 is VERY low for the animal kingdom. It's simply the best humans can do, given the biology of human females, women are K strategists by default, unless you count the Octomom - and trust me, if they could be polygynous, they would be - if the mother dies in childbirth, she is replaced, no? Those FLDS in Texas were collecting multiple welfare checks, which in biological terms is tantamout to letting the children fend for themselves, compensating with herd behavior at best. How many of those kids you think they send to college? It's far from classic K strategy.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:10:07 AM)
Going to college has nothing to do with reproductive success. "Raising offspring to sexual maturity and then they successfully reproduce" THAT is the definition of reproductive success. If they can convince the rest of the world to send them money and help insure the survival of their offspring, that could be construed as "financial cuckoldry" which is a whole different ball of wax.

xssve -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:12:21 AM)
In fact what humans do is historically a mix of r and K strategies, necessary due to the historically high rates of infant mortality among humans - and mortality in childbirth is not far behind as a result of cranial expansion - K strategy is for the survivors.

tweakabelle -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:16:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Has he ever told you what he does for a living, tweak? What his field of study is? Uhm ....nnoooooooppppeeeee. Though I could speculate that "teaching biology on university campuses" describes training the gardening staff, among other things ........ Dearie me, I forgot he mentioned some experience as a bar tender/manager...there I've corrected the record now! [:D]

tazzygirl -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:18:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Has he ever told you what he does for a living, tweak? What his field of study is? Uhm ....nnoooooooppppeeeee. Though I could speculate that "teaching biology on university campuses" describes training the gardening staff, among other things ........ But surely someone with a PhD would not be so bashful about referring to his own field of study.

mnottertail -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:19:34 AM)
Well, now that we know all this, we drift even further from rape in the military. K? Anthropological studies notwithstanding, it does not behoove us at this juncture to opine on mixed r and K strategies of apparently a small band of texas welfare women, when discussing this rape thing, unless there is some overwhelming evidence that: A) they are military. B) they have been multply raped by multiple rapists, with upwards to 30% impregnation rates (hey, before I was cut, I was a strong shooter, but no where near that accurate). C) this is a normative strategy for military women raped multiple times and pregnant multiple times by rapists. So, you got some sourcing to tie these sticks together, in my estimation.

tweakabelle -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:22:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Has he ever told you what he does for a living, tweak? What his field of study is? Uhm ....nnoooooooppppeeeee. Though I could speculate that "teaching biology on university campuses" describes training the gardening staff, among other things ........ But surely someone with a PhD would not be so bashful about referring to his own field of study. Some academic types can be very shy and self-effacing. But somehow I don't get that impression in this instance ...... do you?

Hillwilliam -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:27:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Has he ever told you what he does for a living, tweak? What his field of study is? Uhm ....nnoooooooppppeeeee. Though I could speculate that "teaching biology on university campuses" describes training the gardening staff, among other things ........ But surely someone with a PhD would not be so bashful about referring to his own field of study. Are you ladies referring to me or xssve? I was the one that taught at FIU, UM main campus and UM Marine campus. A PhD isn't necessary to work as an adjunct or even Professor. Mr Gropp at U Miami was probably the best at teaching Inorganic Chemistry I have ever studied under but he had no doctorate.

tazzygirl -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:32:13 AM)
Oh not you dear. You have been quite upfront about your field, which leaves me often impressed with your knowledge. [:D]

tazzygirl -> RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did They Expect?' (2/20/2012 11:33:20 AM)
quote: Some academic types can be very shy and self-effacing. But somehow I don't get that impression in this instance ...... do you? Not at all.. which surprises me that he wont fess up to at least what his field in regards to his PhD.

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