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Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/15/2012 11:59:33 PM

DommesLesEnigma

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Hi,

New to the Forum but I like some of the threads I've read and posted on. I don't know if this topic has came up before. It is just something that I wonder about.

Domestic Violence between husband and wife or boyfriend and girlfriend is not good for a family. I have seen the damage it can cause. If asked my opinion on it, I will come hard and say. "If they are stupid enough to stay in a relationship with an abuser than they deserve it." You know not to interfere in those types of relationships because they will get mad at you. But when it get out of hand and they can't handle it they run to family and law enforcement. Than the next thing you know they are right back with the abuser. Now I am not saying this is how it happens all the time. But it do happen a lot. Sometimes the victim wise up and leave the abuser and that is a good thing.

But what if there were more responsible BDSM D/s relationships in the world. If people matched up according to there type and be honest about it. Than maybe the "abuser" in Domestic Violence would not become an abuser. The "victim" would never become the victim. Because they would be matched up according to what they actually like and grow. These relationships I feel will be better because no one will be forcing something on the other.

example:
I know or maybe just realized I am a Masochist but I'm not going to tell my partner. Instead I will make my partner like it.
or
I am or just realized I am a sadist and I will provoke my partner until my partner loose his temper and give me what I want. (I don't know if this one works, it is far stretched I will admit.)

When you suppress things, like what your kinks are about yourself they often come out in a bad way.

I hope I explained my point right because I would like to know what others think. Because I do have friends in the Vanilla world that struggle so hard in relationships. Yet in my world I don't seem to have the same problems with relationships.

Dommes Les Enigma

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 12:21:43 AM

JanahX

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Domestic Violence is derived from people not being able to manage their anger constructively. Im not sure where you think BDSM fits into this.

How does BDSM have anything to do with not being able to control your anger towards someone?

I dont understand your logic in this - and your examples are piss poor in being that no one lives in a BDSM world 24/7 365. People mostly live in the real world and fight over real things.

quote:

But what if there were more responsible BDSM D/s relationships in the world. If people matched up according to there type and be honest about it. Than maybe the "abuser" in Domestic Violence would not become an abuser. The "victim" would never become the victim. Because they would be matched up according to what they actually like and grow. These relationships I feel will be better because no one will be forcing something on the other.

I dont even understand what this means. Ive read it over like 7 times and it makes less sense the more times I read it. TRANSLATION ANYONE?

< Message edited by JanahX -- 2/16/2012 12:36:48 AM >

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 12:30:48 AM

sunshinemiss

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BDSM is about connecting. Abuse is about separating. BDSM is about pleasure. Abuse is about harm.

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 1:04:05 AM

RaspberryLemon

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Abuse and domestic violence both have absolutely fuck all to do with "suppressing your kinks." Enjoying a certain kink or being a sadist or masochist has nothing to do with domestic abuse. One does not cause the other and there is (I'm pretty damn sure) no correlation. Where did you even get this line of thought??

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 1:12:29 AM

JanahX

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:O)

< Message edited by JanahX -- 2/16/2012 1:38:11 AM >

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 1:19:41 AM

Endivius

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corporal, even in extreme circumstances, does not have the same connotation as assault. BDSM is about using different emotional and physical states to explore and connect with parts of yourself and your partner(s). Abuse is about some unstable nut harming another human being because of thier various inadequacies.

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 1:55:09 AM

Jaquin

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No D/s can not cure domestic violence. People abuse others because they cannot control their anger, even if you match up with a masochist and you're sadistic if you get mad and go to far it becomes abuse and then all you've done is made the masochist feel like "I really wanted this" and perhaps make it even harder for them to run away from that abusive relationship plus you've given the abuser an excuse to justify their behaviour. eg. "They wanted it".

BDSM is a lifestyle, abuse is a byproduct of troubled individuals - they do not cancel each other out. There can be abusers in BDSM relationships as much as in vanilla ones, while our criteria to hook up with someone has extra caveats that doesn't make us proof against getting together with someone who likes to hit when they're mad.

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 2:12:55 AM

RaspberryLemon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
To rapberrylemon. I love your line of thoughts. repeat it with me 10 times.

Sadism has nothing to do with abuse.

I don't claim to understand sadism or masochism--I am neither nor is my Master, and so I don't have any experience with either and it is confusing to me at times why people would enjoy these things. However, even I know that there is a BIG difference between enjoying causing pain to someone in a safe and consensual setting ("sadism" in the BDSM sense,) and causing harm to someone, unsafely and non-consensually ("sadism" in a you-are-fucked-in-the-head sense.) The motivations and the results are entirely different. I suppose I should have clarified this in my earlier post.

< Message edited by RaspberryLemon -- 2/16/2012 2:14:00 AM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 2:13:17 AM

MariaB

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At the end of the day, a cunt is a cunt. A person who hits another person because that person pisses them off is a bully, out of control and an abuser. Personally I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.
A person who has submissive or S/m fantasies and keeps those fantasies secret from her partner but at given opportunities riles him to the point of abusing her is just a selfish fantasist who's relationship will eventually end in tears and when it does end I would be the first to say, 'it serves her frigging right for being such a manipulative bitch'

Are you saying that women who leave abusive husbands but eventually end up going back to them are closet submissives? I hope not. Women and men for that matter who go through particular patterns of abuse from a spouse do become conditioned. Breaking that conditioning is often difficult because its very similar to 'Stockholme Syndrome'.

People living in abusive relationships do not deserve everything they get. My friend lived in terror for years and rightly so. When eventually an elaborate and careful plan was put together to get her and her son safely out, he murdered one of her relatives in revenge. She has had years of therapy to mentally survive what that man put her through. I find it hugely insulting that someone like you believes that someone like her deserved everything she got whilst she remained with him.

(in reply to JanahX)

Post #: 9

RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 2:25:27 AM

MrBukani

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RaspberryLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
To rapberrylemon. I love your line of thoughts. repeat it with me 10 times.

Sadism has nothing to do with abuse.
I don't claim to understand sadism or masochism--I am neither nor is my Master, and so I don't have any experience with either and it is confusing to me at times why people would enjoy these things. However, even I know that there is a BIG difference between enjoying causing pain to someone in a safe and consensual setting ("sadism" in the BDSM sense,) and causing harm to someone, unsafely and non-consensually ("sadism" in a you-are-fucked-in-the-head sense.) The motivations and the results are entirely different. I suppose I should have clarified this in my earlier post.

I made a thread about it some time ago.
And the answers from some sadists I found astonishing. I ask for a reason why. They come up with something that looks like a PhD paper, filled to the brim with reasons and end their rant with. "I do not have a reason for it, I just like it".
I think its cool for you to say your relationship has little or nothing to do with S&M and still you are part of the bdsm scene, so to say. There are as many differences in our scene as there are with regulars( the so called vanilla world, bad phrasing cause I dont see anything vanilla in real abusers.)

(in reply to RaspberryLemon)

Post #: 10

RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 2:33:59 AM

DommesLesEnigma

Posts: 108
Joined: 2/12/2012
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I am not in no way saying it is the same thing because it's not. An abuser is an abuser and that is it for that. Maybe I am explaining it wrong...so ok

But why do some people stay in that kind of situation....I mean could all be for that Love or are they really in the closet and don't want to admit it to others ..

Just trying to get a little understanding

< Message edited by DommesLesEnigma -- 2/16/2012 2:51:26 AM >

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 2:57:39 AM

DommesLesEnigma

Posts: 108
Joined: 2/12/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DommesLesEnigma

Hi,

New to the Forum but I like some of the threads I've read and posted on. I don't know if this topic has came up before. It is just something that I wonder about.

Domestic Violence between husband and wife or boyfriend and girlfriend is not good for a family. I have seen the damage it can cause. If asked my opinion on it, I will come hard and say. "If they are stupid enough to stay in a relationship with an abuser than they deserve it." You know not to interfere in those types of relationships because they will get mad at you. But when it get out of hand and they can't handle it they run to family and law enforcement. Than the next thing you know they are right back with the abuser. Now I am not saying this is how it happens all the time. But it do happen a lot. Sometimes the victim wise up and leave the abuser and that is a good thing.

But what if there were more responsible BDSM D/s relationships in the world. If people matched up according to there type and be honest about it. Than maybe the "abuser" in Domestic Violence would not become an abuser. The "victim" would never become the victim. Because they would be matched up according to what they actually like and grow. These relationships I feel will be better because no one will be forcing something on the other.

example:
I know or maybe just realized I am a Masochist but I'm not going to tell my partner. Instead I will make my partner like it or the other way around (I will just put it like this and maybe you understand me a bit better. I wasn't sure if the last example was right anyway)

When you suppress things, like what your kinks are about yourself they often come out in a bad way.

I hope I explained my point right because I would like to know what others think. Because I do have friends in the Vanilla world that struggle so hard in relationships. Yet in my world I don't seem to have the same problems with relationships.

Dommes Les Enigma

Wow you guys are hardcore...just flip the words in the examples. s for m and m for s (oops I made a mistake that's all) again Made a mistake in the placement of my words but I will just blame the (Damned computer)
But I am enjoying the response please continue on

< Message edited by DommesLesEnigma -- 2/16/2012 3:05:54 AM >

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There are many people that have found their way. The great ones are those that help others find their way.

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Post #: 12

RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 3:28:29 AM

LillyBoPeep

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Domestic violence is a bi-product of a personality flaw. It comes from a unbalanced personality that can't process anger in a constructive way, or that is fickle and impossible to please. Consensual BDSM has nothing to do with ny of that. While sometimes there is an element of control in a domestic violence relationship, that control is based on uhealthy insecurity, paranoia towards the other partner, distrust of what the partner says, and domineering behavior.
None of those things have anything to do with control inn BDSM.

BDSM can't cure DV because, while some actions may seem similar, the motivations are entirely different. Those motivations and personlity flaws have to be cured or re-routed.

You're operating on the premise (at least it seems) that DV CAN'T happen in a BDSM relationnship, but it most certainly can. Abuse can and does happen in BDSM relationships, because an unbalanced person hasn't been cured just by participating. In fact, it's possible to create an even more abusive situation, by using conditioning to remove a "slave's" ability to call the police or confide in friends.

So no, BDSM can't and won't cure DV.

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 4:23:03 AM

DarkSteven

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DLE, I believe that your premise is this:

It takes two people to form a DV relationship, abuser and victim. If, hypothetically, all victims had instead a healthy D/s relationship as an option to DV, would they take it? Would this destroy all abusive relationships?

To answer your (assuming I got it right) question, no, it wouldn't.

1. Many victims would prefer the DV relationship. It's what they're used to.
2. If an abuser had no prospective victims (because in your example, they had all entered D/s relationships), he would make another by starting a relationship with, and making a victim of, a non-victim.

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 4:38:57 AM

SilverBoat

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FR @OP

What you appear to be suggesting, in somewhat simplified form, is that engaging in BDSM-D/s activities could eliminate the fears, frustrations, angers, hatreds, lack of control, conditions, etc that cause Domestic Violence.

The short answer to that is No.

Since you've already gotten lots of longer answers, I won't go into much more detail, but here's the bottom line: A few sets of partners might be able or even adept at channeling their conflicts, needs, etc into healthy BDSM-D/s interactions, in which those stresses get relieved in a manner that doesn't harm each other. However, for partners who can't control themselves well enough to abstain from domestic violence in the first place, BDSM-D/s doesn't resolve their underlying problems, and may even make matter worse. So, the longer answer, since you said "cure", is more like rarely-if-ever.

...

< Message edited by SilverBoat -- 2/16/2012 4:40:09 AM >

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 4:53:34 AM

GreedyTop

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quote:

But why do some people stay in that kind of situation....I mean could all be for that Love or are they really in the closet and don't want to admit it to others ..

Because he told me he'd find me and kill me if I left, and I believed him.

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 5:40:06 AM

kalikshama

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One of the reasons I joined the military was to escape an abusive relationship. While I allow for the possibility that some men might be able to constructively channel aggressive impulses into healthy BDSM relationships, Billy was a bully and would not have been helped by BDSM.

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 5:45:52 AM

xxblushesxx

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I understand what you're saying OP, and it would be nice if it were that easy. Unfortunately, I think your premise is flawed.

Abusers...abuse. They take what they have and they break it. They don't want the people they "love" to be happy because (this is in general) they are very unhappy with themselves and want everyone around them to feel the same. If a masochist gets involved with an abuser, the masochist will not be happy because the abuser will not respect limits of any sort. (eventually)

A bdsm relationship although it looks all give on one side and all take on the other, is a two way relationship. Each side is getting something they need, and giving to the other side to make them happy. Although to an outsider it may seem the same as an abusive relationship, it is not. And never the twain shall meet.

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 5:50:37 AM

xssve

Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

Domestic Violence is derived from people not being able to manage their anger constructively. Im not sure where you think BDSM fits into this.

How does BDSM have anything to do with not being able to control your anger towards someone?

I dont understand your logic in this - and your examples are piss poor in being that no one lives in a BDSM world 24/7 365. People mostly live in the real world and fight over real things.

quote:

But what if there were more responsible BDSM D/s relationships in the world. If people matched up according to there type and be honest about it. Than maybe the "abuser" in Domestic Violence would not become an abuser. The "victim" would never become the victim. Because they would be matched up according to what they actually like and grow. These relationships I feel will be better because no one will be forcing something on the other.

I dont even understand what this means. Ive read it over like 7 times and it makes less sense the more times I read it. TRANSLATION ANYONE?

Well I think to have a successful BDSM relationship, you do have to learn anger control, it's not just lashing out and slapping the shit out her when you've had a bad day is it?

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RE: Could BDSM D/s cure Domestic Violence - 2/16/2012 5:53:39 AM

xssve

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Joined: 10/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

One of the reasons I joined the military was to escape an abusive relationship. While I allow for the possibility that some men might be able to constructively channel aggressive impulses into healthy BDSM relationships, Billy was a bully and would not have been helped by BDSM.

Yeah, I don't know if it's a cure for that - it usually requires some significant social controls and peer pressure to reign that in, as well as some incentives, and that may or may not be a feature of a given dynamic in a certain time and place for particular people.

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