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Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 6:52:08 AM   
Fightdirecto


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Status: offline 		Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty For Miscarriages
quote:

There's a new bill on the block that may have reached the apex (I hope) of woman-hating craziness. Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin has introduced a 10-page bill that would criminalize miscarriages and make abortion in Georgia completely illegal. Both miscarriages and abortions would be potentially punishable by death: any "prenatal murder" in the words of the bill, including "human involvement" in a miscarriage, would be a felony and carry a penalty of life in prison or death...

I doubt that a bill that makes a legal medical procedure liable for the death penalty will pass. The bill, however, shows an astonishing lack of concern for women's health and well-being. Under Rep. Franklin's bill, HB 1, women who miscarry could become felons if they cannot prove that there was "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation" of their miscarriage. There is no clarification of what "human involvement" means, and this is hugely problematic as medical doctors do not know exactly what causes miscarriages. Miscarriages are estimated to terminate up to a quarter of all pregnancies and the Mayo Clinic says that "the actual number is probably much higher because many miscarriages occur so early in pregnancy that a woman doesn't even know she's pregnant. Most miscarriages occur because the fetus isn't developing normally."

Holding women criminally liable for a totally natural, common biological process is cruel and non-sensical. Even more ridiculous, the bill holds women responsible for protecting their fetuses from "the moment of conception," despite the fact that pregnancy tests aren't accurate until at least 3 weeks after conception...

The bill contends that Georgia is exempt from upholding Supreme Court decisions like Roe v. Wade because the U.S. Constitution's Article I only governs five crimes: counterfeiting, piracy, high seas felonies, offenses against the law of nations, and treason. According to the bill, since murder is not one of those five crimes, it should be solely governed by the state.


Utah passed a similar bill, sponsored by Sen. Margaret Dayton, a Republican, into law in February of 2010 that allows women to be criminally charged if they cannot prove a miscarriage was accidental. Women could be legally held responsible for miscarriages caused by “reckless behavior.”

FYI: That same Rep. Franklin of GA also introduced a bill in February of 2011 to reclassify victims of rape, stalking, harassment, and family or domestic violence as “accusers” rather than victims. The Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee issued a response to this bill, saying, “Burglary victims are still victims. Assault victims as still victims. Fraud victims are still victims....But if you have the misfortune to suffer a rape, or if you are beaten by a domestic partner, or if you are stalked, Rep. Franklin doesn’t think you’ve been victimized. He says you’re an accuser.”

IMO, such laws are a miscarriage of justice.

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 6:57:09 AM   
SoftBonds


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Status: offline 		Scariest part of that is that if a woman is responsible for protecting the fetus from the moment of conception, than birth control would be murder. After all, most birth control works by making implantation of the embryo not happen. Only exception I can think of is condoms.
But I'm sure someone on the right will be on shortly to say they are not attacking birth control...

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 7:27:43 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		In addition to what's already been written in Mother Jones, note that any woman who miscarries is presumed guilty until proven innocent.  Legal presumption of guilt by the state is a terrifying concept.


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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 7:36:28 AM   
DesideriScuri


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Status: offline 		I think the intentions of this bill (though, perhaps not clearly defined), regarding miscarriages, are to protect fetuses and to make it a crime to actively participate in the death of the fetus. An non-"natural" manner of miscarriage could include behaviors that put the fetus at risk, including alcohol consumption, smoking, drugs, and other manner that could be decided to be neglect or endangerment. It would also criminalize those who harm a pregnant woman, also causing her to miscarry.

The alteration of victim to accuser in those instances could very easily be due to the "innocent until proven guilty" rules we live by. Think of the Duke rape case. The woman that was the rape "victim" was no victim. She was an accuser and the Duke Lacrosse team members were found not guilty.

All that being said...how you can hold someone accountable for something they don't even know, is ridiculous. Thus, if a woman is 20 days pregnant (according to the OP's quoted section, common pregnancy tests aren't accurate until at least 21 days) and she drinks heavily and miscarries, how is she fairy accountable for child endangerment or neglect?

I like that there are people willing to make laws that protect a fetus from harm. I really do. I also like that there are people who are looking out for unintended consequences of vague and ambiguous laws. This bill, in the form cited, should not pass. It should not even come up for a vote. It is too vague and needs to be better focused. There should be little "wiggle room" for transient fad interpretations. This is how things go awry so quickly.

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 7:39:57 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		I guess someone will be along to suggest that a woman who has an abortion (or miscarriage) belongs in jail, so she cant get her self knocked up again, altho isnt that making a mockery of the cost of welfare versus jail expenses?
Yes Im being ridiculous, but to be honest, I find these suggestions to be even more preposterous than mine, so Im just adding to the almighty clusterfuck that IS dangerous to all women of childbearing years.
From dumbarses saying a woman can keep her legs shut, this suggestion is on par with that for reality.
And people complain about feminazis? This is sending womens rights back to the thirties. Im so very very disgusted.


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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 8:08:28 AM   
joether


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Status: offline 		This law is absolutely retarded! No surprise that a Republican would be pushing for it. Why is it within the last few years, every time we've heard of a dumb law or set of regulations that are full of amazing amounts of stupidity, that there's a Republican behind it? What is even more surprising is the amount of conservatives that immediately support these Republicans. Like conservatives some how competing with anyone else for the annual title "Dumbest Law on the Books".

To help conservatives REALLY understand just how dumb this law is, consider the following. WHAT IF, a Democrat proposed a law stating its a felony to all firearm owners within a one mile radius of a murder in which the victim was killed by a firearm. It does not matter if the 'law abiding firearm owner' had only a pistol and the victim was killed by shotgun; the fact that firearms are so easily moved around, marks the pistol owner as not only a possible suspect but highly likely to either have done it, or know the person that did it and just hiding their 'brother in arms' from law enforcement. Wouldnt you agree such a law was simply absurd, stupid, and insane?

That is what this law attempts to imply from the abortion debate raging in this country. This law does not to advance America but simply makes it step backwards. I'm guessing the guy did it as a political stunt because he's up for re-election and needs to show the voters he's A) Ultra-Hardcord-Conservative B) Protector of UnBorn Americans (while giving the shaft to born Americans), C) Able to think up 'new' and 'creative' ideas that seek to undermine the spirit of Roe vs Wade decision many years ago. In the end, the really sad fact of all this, is the number of conservatives that will not come out and say this law is simply silly and throw the Republican out of office. They keep bitching about wanting 'better goverment' and keep electing morons like this to represent them makes me wonder how badly they want good goverment?

Miscarriages are very tragic moments. They are full of sorrow and pain. What 'Christian' Republican would take enjoyment in passing such a law? Oh, and the woman has to prove she's innocent rather than assumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

< Message edited by joether -- 2/20/2012 8:14:13 AM >

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 8:14:03 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		At least the bill doesn't propose instituting pro-life Stork Bucks or outlawing "space abortions"...yet.

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 8:22:29 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		The Republican War on Contraception

Not satisfied with restricting abortion rights, the GOP is now coming after your birth control.

..."Contraception is under attack in a way it really wasn't in the past few years," says Judy Waxman, the vice president for health and reproductive rights at the National Women's Law Center. "In 2004, we could not find any group—the National Right to Life Committee, the Bush campaign, anyone—that would go on the record to say they're opposed to birth control," adds Elizabeth Shipp, the political director for NARAL Pro-Choice America. "We couldn't find them in 2006 either, and in 2008 it was just fringe groups. In 2010, 2011, and this year, it's just exploded."

...The White House probably isn't entirely unhappy with all the fighting over contraception. As the Washington Post's Sarah Kliff wrote, the birth control issue gives Obama's reelection campaign "a chance to widen the reproductive health debate beyond abortion" and energize young, secular abortion-rights supporters who might not otherwise vote.

Republicans who support abortion rights have warned their fellow GOPers that picking a fight over contraception could be a disaster. But even that hasn't slowed down the onslaught—on Wednesday, Speaker of the House John Boehner (R-Ohio), warned that he would soon push forward legislation that would allow employers to refuse to provide birth control to their employees. Boehner's Senate counterpart, Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), noted that several Republican senators have already introduced bills on the subject. One of those bills is Rubio's aforementioned Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

"I'm a little bit stunned with how far they have gone on birth control with absolutely no regard for the political consequences," Shipp continues. "Whether it's Rick Santorum, Mitt Romney—I don't think Newt Gingrich—if any of these guys think they're going to be able to come back to the middle after the attacks they've made on birth control, they're sadly mistaken, because the general public thinks they're just whack-a-doodle."

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 8:23:08 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I like that there are people willing to make laws that protect a fetus from harm. I really do.

Of course you do: you're not the one who has to worry about getting pregnant.
You really believe that a blob of meat that might become a person in nine months has rights that trump its mother's? That's a bit fucking rich coming from somebody who's been complaining that social security and medical coverage aren't covered by the constituition, surely?

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 8:25:51 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		It's always the same fucking people who want to ban abortion trying to stop the use of birth control, have you noticed?

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 8:28:09 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		Yes, so imagine a society without birth control, abortion, and where miscarriage is a crime. So we are going to start putting mothers in jail when they have subsequent miscarriages. And who, exactly, is going to take care of their existing children (i.e., women have miscarriages at all ages and at all times of their lives, even when they have children already)? And of course, the conservatives don't believe in welfare. I guess they'll just open up orphanages for the existing children. What a great society we will create.


< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 2/20/2012 8:38:03 AM >

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 8:35:22 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Ive had three miscarriages... one at five months(actually was stillborn) two before 12 weeks. I still mourn on the day I miscarried the first, I always light a candle for him on the due date, he would be 32 this year. The two others were five years apart with a child inbetween. To think of any other woman going thru that AND having been arrested/jailed horrifies me. The thought of friends and family including my own daughter, being held to those restrictions more than horrifies me. Its revolting

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 8:58:23 AM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		Once this gets around the world, does any one think any one in any country is going to listen the US's views on human rights without thinking about this? This legislation removes any moral right the US has to lecture anyone - and I mean anyone - anywhere about human rights.

It entitles everyone in the rest of world to laugh in America's face when the US brings up human rights abuses elsewhere. Is this what you want?

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 9:31:29 AM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		I guess invitro clinics wont fair too well either, huh? If any couple decided they had enough kids and wanted to have the rest of their embryos destroyed the couple and clinic employees could all be charged and go to jail (or does that state have the death penalty?)..

Who friggin elects these people?



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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 9:35:40 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		people who think like them, assorted paranoids ?? plus a good percentage of those who dont care except that its not for a "socialist muslim from kenya"

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 9:40:43 AM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

people who think like them, assorted paranoids ?? plus a good percentage of those who dont care except that its not for a "socialist muslim from kenya"

Well at this rate, I think most of us will stick to the "socialist muslim from kenya"....

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 9:40:45 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
people who think like them, assorted paranoids ?? plus a good percentage of those who dont care except that its not for a "socialist muslim from kenya"

and people wonder why i will never become an American citizen..

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 10:36:05 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Once this gets around the world, does any one think any one in any country is going to listen the US's views on human rights without thinking about this? This legislation removes any moral right the US has to lecture anyone - and I mean anyone - anywhere about human rights.

It entitles everyone in the rest of world to laugh in America's face when the US brings up human rights abuses elsewhere. Is this what you want?


Um, tweak, this is NOT the US's stance.  This is merely a proposal.  Were it to pass, it would apply only in Georgia.

In some ways, this is not as much proposed legislation as it is a trial balloon.  Everyone is watching to see if the Dems will be able to use this proposal as a club to whack the GOP with later.  If there are consequences, then the GOP will retreat from this kind of legislation for a while.


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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 10:56:04 AM   
DesideriScuri


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Status: offline 		@Lucylastic: I am truly sorry that you had one miscarriage, let alone 3.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Of course you do: you're not the one who has to worry about getting pregnant.
You really believe that a blob of meat that might become a person in nine months has rights that trump its mother's? That's a bit fucking rich coming from somebody who's been complaining that social security and medical coverage aren't covered by the constituition, surely?


So glad you know who you're talking to, Moonhead. Interestingly enough, I do not worry too much about getting someone pregnant. You're right. But, that decision was made a month after my twins were born (2nd and 3rd children) and I did go and get snipped. I have been tested regularly, and I'm still shooting blanks, 8 years later.

A mother's rights, you say? What rights? The right to abort the child? I have no problem with that. And, I've already stated that here and in other threads that I do believe women have the right to choose to have an abortion. So, your argument isn't even valid from the outset. Plus, I support enforcing responsibility onto the baby daddy, not just the baby mommy. Coming after the wrong guy here, too.

Plus, let's take a look at what I wrote before you jump on me, okay? I did state that I believed the intent of the legislation was to criminalize the killing of a fetus in cases of negligence or endangerment on the part of the mother (acknowledging that it would be ludicrous to hold a woman accountable before she even knows she's pregnant) and/or on the part of a different person who may either try to harm the fetus, or who harms the mother, thereby causing the miscarriage. The key here is that the fetus is desired. The woman has made the decision to carry the fetus to term.

Thus, in these instances, the woman is concerned about getting pregnant. She has actually made the decision to get/remain pregnant.

Lastly, if you would be so kind as to cite where I've made an argument against Social Security because it's not in the Constitution, I would appreciate it. Barring a citation, you should not lump me into any group. Even if I label myself as a member of a particular group or political party, I remain a free thinking individual who does not agree with every tenet of any political party. I have not made any direct comment against Medicare because of the un-Constitutionality, but I have made the comment that Government shouldn't pay for anyone's health insurance/care because it isn't in the Constitution. I accept that I referred to Medicare, but it is also more than just Medicare.

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RE: Georgia Law Could Give Death Penalty for Miscarriages - 2/20/2012 11:03:13 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

death: any "prenatal murder" in the words of the bill, including "human involvement" in a miscarriage, would be a felony and carry a penalty of life in prison or death...


Better not ride anything wilder that the Tilt-A-Whirl down south this summer girls.



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