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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/3/2006 7:39:36 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Elected officials are out to lunch. Yes- Reagan said it was a one time Amnesty.

Unfortunately dude- the commen folks are going to lose the battle.

If I hear one more bush speech I will scream!

*wonders if bankruptsy reform means the feds cant file chapter 7*
*wonders why we need all this reform, written by lobbiests*
*wonders how things got this dismal- in a few short years*

My guess is- that many who classify themself as conservative, dont recognize this admnistrations reckless power trip.

If everyone stopped buying junk at stores for 1 month. A serious, massive effort, we might get an ear.


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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/4/2006 12:09:24 AM   
malakas


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Racism or ethnic bigotry (or whatever one wishes to call alleged anti-Mexican feelings) is a red herring intended to distract focus on the issue which concerns status only, namely the illegal status of those who cross the border illegally.

If millions of Canadians were crossing the northern border illegally and living and working in the United States illegally, the identical arguments would apply to those Canadians.

This has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. It has everything to do with illegal entry of millions into the United States during a period in which the nation's borders must be more secure than ever.

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/4/2006 12:22:05 AM   
Wulfchyld


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Oklahoma finally had the sense to pass a law that lets me drop a hostile dead in my yard. That does not give me a right to out right murder but it does give me the right to defend my property, even if that means killing the trespasser. IMO the minute men are defending their patriotic property and in some cases keeping trouble out of my yard. I have spent time in Mexico and in the deeper part of Mexico I met some of the greatest people on earth. Many had opened their homes to me and one offered his Dojo to me and asked me to come and teach anytime I like, I was overwhelmed with emotions over that gesture as I am sure many of you could understand. However the coin does have two sides and I have seen my share of very bad Mexican nationalists. Seems many rouges and bandits pour over the border and cause a good deal of problems and I even see it here. For the minutemen to make such a gesture is a good thing, they are showing that as a "Republic" even the everyday citizen is making a stand for the country. I hope that sends a message to the villains and the vastly wonderful people of Mexico go through the proper channels of immigration and visitation.
YMMV

< Message edited by Wulfchyld -- 6/4/2006 12:23:21 AM >

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/4/2006 4:17:10 AM   
Reflectivesoul


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Status: offline 		Actually the government is sending troops to the boarders... I have a friend in the military thats being assigned to the boarder here in a few weeks.... I support him whole heartedly... and the boys that his company will replace there...

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/4/2006 8:12:31 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

Oklahoma finally had the sense to pass a law that lets me drop a hostile dead in my yard. That does not give me a right to out right murder but it does give me the right to defend my property, even if that means killing the trespasser.



Errrrmmm.... Not quite. 

Anyone who uses deadly force in this country is still bound by the 'reasonable belief' standards set under Gardner and under Graham. And there has to be more at stake than property.

Each state can set more restrictive standards for the use of force (some states require a 'retreat to the wall' standard), but no state can declare open season on human targets.

The media and the anti-self defense lobby came up with evocative labels like 'the Shoot First Law', or 'Castle Doctrine', but that was sensationalism on their part.







< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 6/4/2006 8:13:24 AM >

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/4/2006 9:37:53 AM   
Wolf1020


Posts: 447
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From: Anderson, SC
Status: offline 		Ref-
It is a start but you need a lot more then 6,000 and unless it has changed since I last heard they will be supporting the BP not directly doing anything.

Alum-
It depends where you live.  In MOST states you need to believe your life is in danger.  In states like Texas you can use deadly force to protect property, especially after dark where the law loosens it up considerably.


< Message edited by Wolf1020 -- 6/4/2006 9:38:33 AM >

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/4/2006 10:44:39 AM   
malakas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf1020
In MOST states you need to believe your life is in danger.  In states like Texas you can use deadly force to protect property, especially after dark where the law loosens it up considerably.


Several states, including Texas, Oklahoma and Louisiana have laws that allow persons to use deadly force to protect property against unwanted intruders whether or not the property owner is confronted with deadly force. These are also known informally as "make my day" laws.

In a few states, deadly force may be used to prevent the trespasser from fleeing with property from the scene of the crime. This is at odds with the self-defense requirement that any threat be immediate. Also, under these laws, there is no duty to retreat when one’s property is involved as there is with self-defense. Normally, under the common law, a person must retreat from harm’s way if possible.

It's wise not to break into people's homes and not to steal.

< Message edited by malakas -- 6/4/2006 10:45:05 AM >

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/4/2006 10:56:20 AM   
Wolf1020


Posts: 447
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From: Anderson, SC
Status: offline 		It is more unwise to break into my home then it would be the average one

It isn't conducive to dieing old in a bed surrounded by ones great grand children

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/4/2006 10:58:57 AM   
malakas


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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/4/2006 11:10:34 AM   
SenseofBelonging


Posts: 69
Joined: 10/20/2005
Status: offline 		Georgia has recently passed a law allowing deadly force in response to "feeling a threat of physical harm". there is no longer a requirement to prove you were in fact threatened or that the threat was of a deadly nature,  nor is there a requirement to flee from the threat. It's known in the media as the "Shoot first, ask questions later" law. As to the minutemen...yes i agree with what they are doing. the US has one of the most lenient immigration policies in the world. It's not all that hard to do it legallly, it's just time consuming. (and cheaper than paying the bandits to bring you across). Having said that, immigration laws were implemented, not to restrict immigration, per se...but to keep criminals and public health threats from entering the country.

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/5/2006 9:32:29 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I just got some mail from The Minutemen today so I'll be sending along a check.

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 6/5/2006 9:48:33 AM   
youngsub1985


Posts: 8
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline 		I fully support what the Minute Men are doing.  And this whole amnesty thing is a joke.  So we are going to reward people for breaking the law now?  And what about the people who have actually followed the law and went through the process to become a citizen?  Giving illegals amnesty is really not fair to the people who have done it legally.

< Message edited by youngsub1985 -- 6/5/2006 9:54:24 AM >

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 1/13/2008 5:43:23 PM   
Sinergy


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General reply.

After having spent the weekend with one of these groups, and gone out numerous times at all hours of the day or night, I am left with a few questions.

1)  With the rapid influx of illegal immigrants into the US, why did we not see anybody trying to cross the border while scouting 6 different locations for about 18 hours in a weekend.

2)  Why does the guy filming a documentary about them, who has over 1000 hours of video footage on the border, not have any actual footage of actual illegal immigrants crossing the borders.

3)  Why did they not bother to show us, in an entire weekend, despite the fact most of them have cameras when they are out on patrol, at least one (1) picture of one hispanic person crossing the border.

4)  Why do they get so offended when I ask for the sources of their statistical information that they throw out constantly (e.g. 29% of all felons in prison are convicted felons, 20% of all people captured and returned to Mexico never try to cross again) in conversations?

5)  While they insist emphatically that the treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo, prohibits any military activity within a certain distance from the border, and indicate that Mexico is in violation of this treaty, they do not see the irony in their statements that this is proven by our military forces conducting exercises on the Mexican border.

6)  Why do they announce that their efforts are justified by the fact that their membership includes 2 democrats?

7)  Why do they insist that they were fooled twice into voting for Bush (making me think "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me," and then proceed to tell me that Democrats (who had the gall to leave office with a 400Billion dollar trade deficit) were so much worse for our economy than the Republicans (who have borrowed money from China to spend a trillion dollars a year in Iraq)), yet still think that the Democrats mean to destroy this country?

8)  Why do they insist repeatedly that they are not "racist,"  even my after pointing out that the visual phenotype (white skin) has nothing to do with a people who have brown (from negroid and mongoloid roots), and yet never object when I point out the word they need to self apply is "bigoted" and "prejudiced" and the group they are bigotted and prejudiced towards happen to be both lower class (poor) and generally hispanic.

9)  Why are they so insistent on me becoming one of them?

10)  Why do they spend 2 hours describing in a sick, creepy, and lurid detail the story of a person crossing the border violently gang-raped?

Sinergy

p.s.  Did FirmHandKY ever clarify how the Surge is working out for him, or is the Surge (and him) still "Awaiting approval."  I wish I had these people's patience.  Their comes a time after smashing my fingers with a hammer that I realize that continuing to smash my fingers with a hammer will both continue to hurt and not provide me with any further enlightenment on the wisdom and value of smashing fingers with a hammer.


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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 1/13/2008 6:02:39 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		        It's probably about time to run this topic again, but DAMN, Sinergy, did you have to wake a thread this old?  It's a parade of the lost back there, and you know somebody is going to reply to something 1 1/2 years old...

      I'll skip the questions you posed and say this;  I liked the idea of the Minutemen as way to send a message, but the reality is something else entirely.  I don't care for the group.  I'll also say that I read recently that illegals are costing LA County 44 million $ a MONTH in medical bills and welfare allocated to their anchor babies, but paid to them.

      Something has to change.

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 1/13/2008 6:07:45 PM   
Sinergy


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Love to hear sources for your statistics, Rich.

I did not spend the weekend at the Minutemen 2 years ago, I got home 2 hours ago.

As far as what they are doing, I imagine their attempt to embarass the government wont work.  I imagine AnencephalyBoy will go "the minuteman are covering it" and fire 1000 border patrol.

Sinergy


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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 1/13/2008 6:14:40 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		So Synergy, you were with those guys, what were the answers to your questions?

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 1/13/2008 6:15:36 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		      You mean the source of the number?  Front section of my local paper within the last couple weeks.  Try the back pages of the LA times.

     I'm glad you had the opportunity to spend time with people of different values and beliefs than your own.  It's how we grow. 


     Edit:  The story I saw was different, this one is just welfare..

Illegal immigrants in Los Angeles County during November collected more than $37 million in welfare and food stamp allocations, up $3 million from September,
http://www.avpress.com/n/08/0108_s15.hts

(link will expire, they only archive for a week)

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 1/13/2008 6:21:59 PM >

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 1/13/2008 6:38:17 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

So Synergy, you were with those guys, what were the answers to your questions?


I could try explaining it to you, popeye, but since you are incapable of spelling my name correctly, I am dubious you would understand.

Sinergy

Hint:  I spent a weekend with them, and those are the questions I ended the weekend with.


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 1/13/2008 7:08:55 PM   
PrizedPosession


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

There are far more threatening matters to our nation's security happening at the border to our north.



Yep.  Canadian bacon, an abundance of beaver, and parkas sure are threatening.

Yours,
benji



canadian immigrant here, don't forget the maple syrup and Pam Anderson
But to the post, i'm not really for the minute men. i think if they got rid of the guns it would be better but i also think the government needs to step up and make an easier way to either control the influx or a better way to become a citizen that doesn't take 20 years. And as far as i understand it, these people are fleeing from the government not for the lack of jobs. Maybe if America helps (in a non assertive way) it will keep the immigration in check.

But that's just me :)


< Message edited by PrizedPosession -- 1/13/2008 7:09:46 PM >

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RE: Do you support the Minute Men? - 1/13/2008 7:48:37 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Minutemen were members of teams of select men from the American colonial militia during the American Revolutionary War.

They vowed to be ready for battle against the British within two minutes of receiving notice. These teams consisted about a fourth of the entire militia, and generally were the younger and more mobile, serving as part of a network for early response to any threat. Minuteman and Sons of Liberty member Paul Revere spread the news that "the regulars are coming out" when the British marched towards the arsenal in Concord to collect the patriots' weapons.

I don't think these idiots are WORTHY of the name, otherwise they'd be more worried about the Feds than they are the Undocumented.



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