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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 3:21:43 PM   
TheKingofHell


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

They chose to enter this country illegally. All the rest stems from that. They can't work, legally, so they have to take what's given to them. They can't have anyone run a credit check on them so they bunk-in with their friends that are lucky enough to already have a place.

Ultimately, though, all of this is the residue of a choice they made.

Not too get too caught up in logic but "Or are the the things they are willing to endure so that their lives are better?" How are the negatives I described making their lives any better? If you mean ultimately? Long-term type stuff? I guess you could make that argument but, they're stealing from our economy, also. I am not willing to "endure" so that their lives can be better.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


Now not all illegals choose to come here. Some girls are trafficked and brought against their will. However after escaping they rebuild their lives and start over and choose to stay for one of four reasons
1. They like it here and have a new life and friends they don't wont to leave.

2. They can't face their families.

3. Theres nothing for them back home.

4. The people that took them are still out there and talking aka getting caught may mean signing their's as well as the death warrants of said new and old loved ones.

Now my new question is if you found out your partner was brought here under such circumstances would you still hold it against them for not telling you?

< Message edited by TheKingofHell -- 2/23/2012 3:24:39 PM >

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 3:27:20 PM   
LizDeluxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loookingforus
They don't take jobs they others are willing to do because they can not get them, so the only jobs they are taking are unwanted.


Apparently you are not familiar with the trades. One of my neighbors is a contractor and he has a difficult time lining up jobs in this tough economy partially due to the fact that other contractors can undercut him by hiring illegals who get paid less. My neighbor obeys the law and refuses to hire anyone who is not properly documented. I don't know where people get this delusion that illegals only get jobs cleaning toilets and emptying trash.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 3:36:44 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell
Now not all illegals choose to come here. Some girls are trafficked and brought against their will. However after escaping they rebuild their lives and start over and choose to stay for one of four reasons
1. They like it here and have a new life and friends they don't wont to leave.

2. They can't face their families.

3. Theres nothing for them back home.

4. The people that took them are still out there and talking aka getting caught may mean signing their's as well as the death warrants of said new and old loved ones.

Now my new question is if you found out your partner was brought here under such circumstances would you still hold it against them for not telling you?

There is a special visa program (like being a refugee) for trafficked women, they have to do is tell the cops thats what happened and testify against the traffickers.. Usually, they dont know about that visa program until they are rescued from the traffickers due to a raid by the cops.. I dont think many women are just released by traffickers, so i dont know how these girls could be free to become your partner unless they were rescued by the cops somehow.. I am guessing this is a hypothetical question and that you dont have any real life experience with someone in this situation?

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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 3:54:49 PM   
SailingBum


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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
They chose to enter this country illegally.

I gotta disagree strongly with this... there really is no choice here, no way for them to enter legally..
(a) if they want a better life, what other country can they go to?
(b) there is really no other way for them to enter legally,.. what companies would go looking for employees from Mexico or SA and go thru the process and cost of that just for a laborer that in the end will only be allowed for a very short time? If they try the marriage route, they gotta do it like they are a mail order bride.. not that easy to do... If they dont have the $1 million to enter as an investor immigrant.. then that route is closed to them also.. I do not see any legal way for them to enter.. so the choice is to live in poverty in their home country with no hope of a better life, or take the chance and enter illegally..
(c) the process to become legal once here has also been made impossible due to changes made to laws a few years ago..




What kind of moronic statement is that!!! That don't do have to come here in the first fucking place. Im sure there are plenty of other countries that would love to support them. although none come to mind.

Those illegals are a huge drain on our resources. They get free health care cuz they are poor. Their kids go to school for free cuz they dont pay taxes and prolly get a free breakfast and lunch. HELL who wouldn't want that???

So in essence they get all the benefits of living in the USA without having to pay one red cent. They don't pay for cops, fireman, trash pickup, none of the shit that we take for granted.

Meanwhile us hard working US citizens pay for their free ride. Are you fucking kidding me? Take the illegals and toss em in jail for 3 to five years. That might discourage the others waiting to cross.

Hell ya I'd turn the no count loser in!!!

BadOne

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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 4:15:24 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell

If you found out that your M or your sub/slave was an illegal immigrant would you report them?

No freakin' way. No freakin' how.........luci

Edited to add: I have no tolerance for those folks who were born into this fine country through no doing of their own - just an accident of birth - yet they see it as some god-given right to decide that others shouldn't be here. Get the fuck over yourselves folks. You could just as easily have been born in some god-awful foreign hellhole and be trying to get into this country like so many others. Red tape and paperwork be damned. Who wouldn't want to have what we have been blessed with? To sit here and act like it's something you somehow were good enough to earn? Bullshit. I know I had no choice in where I was born and I'm glad it was in one of the countries where I have it "good." Too bad some of you weren't born in those other "bad" places. Maybe you'd have a shred of compassion and empathy but, nah, you'd rather hide behind cold, logical statements about paperwork and visas. Go you ...........luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 2/23/2012 4:22:21 PM >


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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 4:23:24 PM   
TheKingofHell


Posts: 76
Joined: 1/13/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell
Now not all illegals choose to come here. Some girls are trafficked and brought against their will. However after escaping they rebuild their lives and start over and choose to stay for one of four reasons
1. They like it here and have a new life and friends they don't wont to leave.

2. They can't face their families.

3. Theres nothing for them back home.

4. The people that took them are still out there and talking aka getting caught may mean signing their's as well as the death warrants of said new and old loved ones.

Now my new question is if you found out your partner was brought here under such circumstances would you still hold it against them for not telling you?

There is a special visa program (like being a refugee) for trafficked women, they have to do is tell the cops thats what happened and testify against the traffickers.. Usually, they dont know about that visa program until they are rescued from the traffickers due to a raid by the cops.. I dont think many women are just released by traffickers, so i dont know how these girls could be free to become your partner unless they were rescued by the cops somehow.. I am guessing this is a hypothetical question and that you dont have any real life experience with someone in this situation?

Well I never used the term released I used the term escaping. Also I'm farely certain that a trafficker would bolt, proceed to clean house(remove all traces of evidence), and set up shop somewhere else if a girl got away and he/she couldn't find her. That's what I would do then again we're talking about a real life scenario a real Trafficker probably wouldn't go that far. Who knows they might go further like decide to kill everyone like the girls and pimps they do business with.

The point being who would believe the girl if everything was covered up?

< Message edited by TheKingofHell -- 2/23/2012 4:24:49 PM >

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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 4:24:29 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
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From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


Are you fucking kidding me? Take the illegals and toss em in jail for 3 to five years. That might discourage the others waiting to cross.

Hell ya I'd turn the no count loser in!!!

BadOne

But of course you would. I'd expect no better. See above ^^^^^

luci

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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 4:28:56 PM   
DesFIP


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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
Find them a good immigration lawyer, of course. What else?

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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 4:41:15 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci



No freakin' way. No freakin' how.........luci

Edited to add: I have no tolerance for those folks who were born into this fine country through no doing of their own - just an accident of birth - yet they see it as some god-given right to decide that others shouldn't be here. Get the fuck over yourselves folks. You could just as easily have been born in some god-awful foreign hellhole and be trying to get into this country like so many others. Red tape and paperwork be damned. Who wouldn't want to have what we have been blessed with? To sit here and act like it's something you somehow were good enough to earn? Bullshit. I know I had no choice in where I was born and I'm glad it was in one of the countries where I have it "good." Too bad some of you weren't born in those other "bad" places. Maybe you'd have a shred of compassion and empathy but, nah, you'd rather hide behind cold, logical statements about paperwork and visas. Go you ...........luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 2/23/2012 4:22:21 PM >
slaveluci
You are just wrong on so many levels. I don't know where to start. Nope I dont have any compassion for anyone who takes my resources and gives nothing back for their ENTIRE LIFE

The average citizen give 50% of their pay in taxes. The illegal ZIP
So lets plug some numbers in say average wage 30 k 15 goes to taxes say 10 million illegals
OMG that works out to 150 Billion dollars a year That the illegals are costing YOU and me the taxpayer.

So over that ONE illegals lifetime of not paying taxes not counting inflation assuming 50 years in the workforce at 15k a year. That illegal is making $ 750,000 more than I am just cuz they aint paying taxes.

UH luci are you getting to see the big picture YET???? Sheesh

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 2/23/2012 5:12:58 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 5:06:52 PM   
Casteele


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From: Near Sacramento, California, USA
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FR

On the original topic/question.. It's situational for me; I have no absolute, cut and dried answer. I'd need to know as much about the facts as I could and make a decision based on that. Of course, I'd feel my trust was betrayed, after all, if they are my S.O. we should be close enough that they should be able to trust me with the truth, even if it is ugly. So I'm pretty sure I'd end the relationship with them unless they had a truly spectacular reason for hiding it for so long. Regarding the slave trafficking example given, that's not "spectacular" in my opinion; That's something that if she was in such a scenario and we progressed to being in a real, deep relationship, she should feel she can turn to me with the truth and ask me to help and protect her. There's also the side thought that, hell, her former slavers may still be looking for her, and once they find her will just as quickly put a bullet in my head to eliminate a potential witness as they cart her back off. Would someone who supposedly loves me endanger me like that? I'd prefer they give me some kind of warning as soon as things started getting deep so I know what I am getting in to and can protect myself.

As far as the whole debate about whether they should be illegals, taking our jobs, etc, I'm just staying out of that; That's really the topic for a thread in the politics section. :-P


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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 5:43:48 PM   
Winterapple


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Joined: 8/19/2011
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FR
No, I wouldn't turn them in. The only reason I
can imagine that I would is if when learning
they were illegal they were involved in some
sort of criminal nefarious activity.
But I think the relationship would be over.
I guess, how I found out and how the relationship
came about would factor in and a assortment
of other things.


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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 5:53:39 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell
Well I never used the term released I used the term escaping. Also I'm farely certain that a trafficker would bolt, proceed to clean house(remove all traces of evidence), and set up shop somewhere else if a girl got away and he/she couldn't find her. That's what I would do then again we're talking about a real life scenario a real Trafficker probably wouldn't go that far. Who knows they might go further like decide to kill everyone like the girls and pimps they do business with.

The point being who would believe the girl if everything was covered up?

If they are trafficked here, they likely do not speak english, they have no money, they dont know anyone, they dont know the laws, they likely dont trust the police (depending on where they are from).. the girls are raped daily by who knows how many guys, they likely have been beaten by the traffickers, they may have even seen or know that girls have been murdered also.. Part of the reason girls are trafficked to other countries is that if the girls dont speak the language they are entirely isolated, they cant tell the johns, the cops, no one (without having a translator to speak for them).

So how in the world are they going to escape??? where are they going to go?

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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 6:01:36 PM   
OsideGirl


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

The average citizen give 50% of their pay in taxes. The illegal ZIP


Not really, unless they're being paid under the table. Employers use stolen/random social security numbers to give the illusion that the workers are legal. Taxes and SS is taken from the pay. (This is what was the flag on my SSN, there were taxes and SS being paid on my SSN that weren't from me.)

They will pay some sales tax, although my experience is that they tend to shop at the flea markets or off of illegal grocery trucks that don't collect tax in order to get brands they're familiar with and pay less.

In CA - they cannot have a driver's license or register a car, so we've lost that income. They cannot buy a house, so they don't pay property tax.

So, only partially true.

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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 6:11:00 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
Take the illegals and toss em in jail for 3 to five years.

Dude,.. just give them a way to become legal, then you get yer supposed $150 billion in taxes (I doubt it would be quite that much since low income earners dont have a tax rate of 50% and i doubt most legal Americans pay that either).

You want to throw them in jail, that costs you $166/day for 5 years for 10 to 11 million? you do the math.. Its like the war on drugs.. it aint working...

the number of deportation cases awaiting resolution reached an all-time high of 297,551 on September 30; the average wait time was 489 days.

the “current cost to detain an immigrant is approximately $166 per day

The GEO Group, for example, is building a 650-bed jail at a cost of $70 million in Adelanto, California, and a 600-bed jail for $32 million in Karnes City, Texas.

According to a March 2010 study by the liberal Center for American Progress, it would cost $285 billion to remove 11 million illegal immigrants in five years.

http://reason.com/archives/2012/02/15/aliens-vs-bureaucrats

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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 6:17:03 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Loookingforus

What I am saying is, yes they made the choice to enter knowing what they would have to live with here. They still find their quality of life higher here even with all those negatives. I think they should be given a fair wage and I believe they should pay taxes. I do not believe they should be penalized for acting to make a better life for themselves or their children. How are they stealing from our economy? They do still work here and they also buy goods and services here money that goes back into the local economy. They don't take jobs they others are willing to do because they can not get them, so the only jobs they are taking are unwanted. And what pray tell are you enduring while they do these things.


Sorry. Some of this is hard to read because I'm assuming you've mis-spelled or left words out.

Some of it is just talking-points clap-trap.

Unwanted jobs? Bullshit. There are people that have been out of work for three and four years that would love to have a job; any job.


Talking points... hahahaha what sublime irony.

Alabama’s harsh immigration law has stirred controversy since it went into effect in September. The statute, which among other things requires police to question people they suspect of being in the U.S. illegally, has prompted thousands of immigrants to flee the state. The law’s backers believed out-of-work Alabamians would snap up the jobs those immigrants once held.

It hasn’t turned out that way. A new study details the economic impact of harsh immigration laws such as those passed by Alabama and five other states. Published by the Center for Business & Economic Research at the University of Alabama, it’s the first economic cost-benefit analysis (PDF) of the state’s immigration statute. Dr. Samuel Addy, an economist and director of the Center, found that the law, known as HB 56, will annually shrink Alabama’s economy by at least $2.3 billion and will cost the state not less than 70,000 jobs.


http://www.businessweek.com/top-news/alabamas-immigration-law-could-cost-billions-annually-02142012.html


< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 2/23/2012 6:18:55 PM >


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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 6:31:47 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


What kind of moronic statement is that!!! That don't do have to come here in the first fucking place. Im sure there are plenty of other countries that would love to support them. although none come to mind.

Those illegals are a huge drain on our resources. They get free health care cuz they are poor. Their kids go to school for free cuz they dont pay taxes and prolly get a free breakfast and lunch. HELL who wouldn't want that???

So in essence they get all the benefits of living in the USA without having to pay one red cent. They don't pay for cops, fireman, trash pickup, none of the shit that we take for granted.

Meanwhile us hard working US citizens pay for their free ride. Are you fucking kidding me? Take the illegals and toss em in jail for 3 to five years. That might discourage the others waiting to cross.

Hell ya I'd turn the no count loser in!!!

BadOne

If Proxima Centauri is profoundly stupid, then this post is in another galaxy entirely. I wouldn't even know where to start, and I am certain it would be futile anyway.

I'm feeling generous, though. Hint: TANF is TEMPORARY Assistance to Needy Families.

_____________________________

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“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 6:33:36 PM   
Baroana


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never mind

< Message edited by Baroana -- 2/23/2012 6:34:15 PM >

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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 8:09:08 PM   
TheKingofHell


Posts: 76
Joined: 1/13/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell
Well I never used the term released I used the term escaping. Also I'm farely certain that a trafficker would bolt, proceed to clean house(remove all traces of evidence), and set up shop somewhere else if a girl got away and he/she couldn't find her. That's what I would do then again we're talking about a real life scenario a real Trafficker probably wouldn't go that far. Who knows they might go further like decide to kill everyone like the girls and pimps they do business with.

The point being who would believe the girl if everything was covered up?

If they are trafficked here, they likely do not speak english, they have no money, they dont know anyone, they dont know the laws, they likely dont trust the police (depending on where they are from).. the girls are raped daily by who knows how many guys, they likely have been beaten by the traffickers, they may have even seen or know that girls have been murdered also.. Part of the reason girls are trafficked to other countries is that if the girls dont speak the language they are entirely isolated, they cant tell the johns, the cops, no one (without having a translator to speak for them).

So how in the world are they going to escape??? where are they going to go?

True there are some girls who are able to learn the languages from interactions with clients though.
And to answer your final questions any way they can and to anywhere(ever here of the phrase anywhere but here?) but then again I doubt that they would be picky. Some even bide there time and learn in secret waiting for a chance to escape.

< Message edited by TheKingofHell -- 2/23/2012 8:12:51 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 9:54:33 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell
Well I never used the term released I used the term escaping. Also I'm farely certain that a trafficker would bolt, proceed to clean house(remove all traces of evidence), and set up shop somewhere else if a girl got away and he/she couldn't find her. That's what I would do then again we're talking about a real life scenario a real Trafficker probably wouldn't go that far. Who knows they might go further like decide to kill everyone like the girls and pimps they do business with.

The point being who would believe the girl if everything was covered up?

If they are trafficked here, they likely do not speak english, they have no money, they dont know anyone, they dont know the laws, they likely dont trust the police (depending on where they are from).. the girls are raped daily by who knows how many guys, they likely have been beaten by the traffickers, they may have even seen or know that girls have been murdered also.. Part of the reason girls are trafficked to other countries is that if the girls dont speak the language they are entirely isolated, they cant tell the johns, the cops, no one (without having a translator to speak for them).

So how in the world are they going to escape??? where are they going to go?

True there are some girls who are able to learn the languages from interactions with clients though.
And to answer your final questions any way they can and to anywhere(ever here of the phrase anywhere but here?) but then again I doubt that they would be picky. Some even bide there time and learn in secret waiting for a chance to escape.

lol Well, maybe you think the johns spend their 10 minutes of time with the girl giving her english lessons? Most speak no english or very little and likely not enough to tell anyone they are being held against their will. And if they are young or children, they are also easier to control. It depends on how they are kept, some are locked in rooms all the time, i doubt many are street walkers or given anything like that, usually its like a brothel where the johns go to where the girls are kept. And too, the girls are moved around a lot, from city to city, state to state, perhaps also sold to other traffickers. I think most traffickers also keep the girls addicted to drugs, again, to make them easier to handle. If the girl had a passport then the trafficker has taken it from her, she has been lied to and told if she doesnt do what she is told that she will be turned over to the police and jailed for being a prostitute and deported. In other words, its not as easy for them to escape as people might think it is. And i am not sure how a girl could make the leap from being drug addicted and selling herself to survive once she did escape to appearing normal enough to become someones partner.. I dont think many men would want to "get involved".

But assuming some do escape, i am a female so the girls would not become my partner but if i did meet someone in that situation, there are organizations that know how to help trafficked girls and help them go to the cops and apply for visas. I dont think traffickers think they have much to fear from an addicted girl that cant speak english so I dont think they would pick up and move should one escape. They need the johns and johns need to know where the girls are. And a place like a strip club isnt all that easy to just pick up and move should a girl escape.. they will expect the girl to be too scared to tell anyone, especially a cop..

You have asked these questions but you have not answered them yourself. (that was a hint, btw)

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RE: What would you do if you learned that your partner ... - 2/23/2012 10:13:17 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Being kidnapped and held in slavery is a horse of another color.

I wouldn't hold that against them as far as possibly reporting.

Depending upon how long it took for them to tell me would determine whether or not I consider withholding such information to be dishonesty or not.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


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