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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 12:51:33 AM   
SpiritedRadiance


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Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		this is depressing, my sisters health care will most likely be cut as well for her and her two year old child, as well as the children my brother spawned...

Its rather sad how things really are these days

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 1:03:42 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
FR...
Whaaa, we want everything for everyone... I don't care we don't have the money to pay for it, fuck fiscal responsibility!

What a sad reaction.

Tens of thousands of PA's neediest people - the mentally handicapped, autistic children, the sick and incapacitated and the like - are going to be deprived of some much needed support and all you can think of is money. Is this what you call 'personal responsibility'?

Because it looks very like social, moral and almost certainly medical irresponsibility to me - cynical calculating and utterly bereft of compassion and humanity. Who would want to live in a society governed by such contemptible values.

This is an initiative of a "sick fuck" of a Governor - where does that leave those who applaud this initiative?


It is NOT the government's job to take care of people, which is something a progressive never understands. There are charities, and family assistance groups that are privately funded do help out those unfortunate people. The government simply cannot raise enough funds to deal with every social ill that befalls a citizen... Tough shit, but that's the way it is.

And something regressives are completely clueless about is History... the reason governments, from the Roman Empire to China circa 1000 AD to the earliest Islamic States, to the Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages (when the Church was the State, on through Bismarck in Germany in the 1880s, GB, France, Italy, Canada, and finally the US, instituted social insurance and pension programs is because relying on charity DIDN'T WORK!

ShitheadInTheSky forbid a cripple is given enough to buy some catfood while he's living in his car, while your side happily pisses away billions for railguns for the fucking Navy.

I will be ecstatic when the far-right headcases get their smarmy oily 1%-rimming asses kicked to the gutter this Fall.

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 12:50:01 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

It is NOT the government's job to take care of people, which is something a progressive never understands. There are charities, and family assistance groups that are privately funded do help out those unfortunate people


Who says so? Where is this written? This empty platitude is regularly trotted out by the looney Right as though it is a fact. It is no such thing. It is an ideological claim or assertion. A particularly empty one as private charities have never had enough funds or resources to do the job this platitude ascribes to them. It is an excuse to do nothing, a cynical declaration of indifference to the plight of those unable to take care of themselves.

It is the responsibility of a society to take care of all its members as best it can. This is one of the hallmarks of civilised societies. Most Western countries have found the most efficient method of assisting their less fortunate members is via Govt. programs. This remains the only method that guarantees a society will begin to fulfil its responsibilities to its less fortunate members.

In this instance, who is going to help the 89,000 children now deprived of support in PA? The looney Right washes its hands of any responsibility for these children, yet opposes any increases in taxation for the ultra-affluent that might pay for such assistance. What a gang of callous hypocrites.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/1/2012 12:51:45 PM >

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 12:56:30 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


It is NOT the government's job to take care of people, which is something a progressive never understands. There are charities, and family assistance groups that are privately funded do help out those unfortunate people. The government simply cannot raise enough funds to deal with every social ill that befalls a citizen... Tough shit, but that's the way it is.

You might want to read this:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Take notice of the 6th phrase.

If keeping people from starving or dying of exposure isn't important, then neither is defending our borders. They're both mentioned side by side.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 3/1/2012 12:59:53 PM >

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 1:20:41 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


It is NOT the government's job to take care of people, which is something a progressive never understands. There are charities, and family assistance groups that are privately funded do help out those unfortunate people. The government simply cannot raise enough funds to deal with every social ill that befalls a citizen... Tough shit, but that's the way it is.

You might want to read this:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Take notice of the 6th phrase.

If keeping people from starving or dying of exposure isn't important, then neither is defending our borders. They're both mentioned side by side.


Promote the GENERAL welfare, not provide for every one of life's ills. And exactly how does one secure the blessings of liberty without providing common defense?

Progressives claim they want a "civilized" society, yet the only thing man is better at than killing each other, is reproducing. You got a sick kid, man up, or woman up and take care of it yourself, stop relying on redistribution of other people's property.

You claim conservatives are attacking women, bullshit! Again, take some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for your wanton libido. Stop fucking if you can't afford a kid, or at least stop expecting the rest of us to foot the bill for your abortion.

Oh, and Hippy... Compared to the rest of the world, YOU are the 1%, so knock off the class warfare bullshit, it's getting old.


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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 1:22:00 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Promote the GENERAL welfare, not provide for every one of life's ills.

But they clearly are not providing for every one of life's ills, why just today the Blunt amendment was shit canned by the Senate.

The guys who are sniveling and trying to work around Roe v Wade have been told to go fuck themselves countless times, and the birthers............oh, my friend, there is allota life's ills they are not pandering to.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/1/2012 1:23:36 PM >

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 1:28:50 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


It is NOT the government's job to take care of people, which is something a progressive never understands. There are charities, and family assistance groups that are privately funded do help out those unfortunate people. The government simply cannot raise enough funds to deal with every social ill that befalls a citizen... Tough shit, but that's the way it is.

You might want to read this:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Take notice of the 6th phrase.

If keeping people from starving or dying of exposure isn't important, then neither is defending our borders. They're both mentioned side by side.


Promote the GENERAL welfare, not provide for every one of life's ills. And exactly how does one secure the blessings of liberty without providing common defense?

Progressives claim they want a "civilized" society, yet the only thing man is better at than killing each other, is reproducing. You got a sick kid, man up, or woman up and take care of it yourself, stop relying on redistribution of other people's property.

You claim conservatives are attacking women, bullshit! Again, take some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for your wanton libido. Stop fucking if you can't afford a kid, or at least stop expecting the rest of us to foot the bill for your abortion.

Oh, and Hippy... Compared to the rest of the world, YOU are the 1%, so knock off the class warfare bullshit, it's getting old.


You forgot to erase My definition of general welfare before you went into your fit of hyperbole. Makes you look kinda foolish. As for common defense. I also defined that as defending our borders and not invading every tin pot piece of shit that happens to have some oil where my buddies can make a few more Billion.

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 1:47:57 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		I can kinda see both sides of this. I believe that their should be a safety net, yes, but I can see the other side too...

...but since this was said almost 40 years ago, and states it so well I'll just quote it:

"We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one. So they're going to solve all the problems of human misery through government and government planning. Well, now, if government planning and welfare had the answer -- and they've had almost 30 years of it -- shouldn't we expect government to read the score to us once in a while? Shouldn't they be telling us about the decline each year in the number of people needing help? The reduction in the need for public housing?

But the reverse is true. Each year the need grows greater; the program grows greater. We were told four years ago that 17 million people went to bed hungry each night. Well that was probably true. They were all on a diet. But now we're told that 9.3 million families in this country are poverty-stricken on the basis of earning less than 3,000 dollars a year. Welfare spending [is] 10 times greater than in the dark depths of the Depression. We're spending 45 billion dollars on welfare. Now do a little arithmetic, and you'll find that if we divided the 45 billion dollars up equally among those 9 million poor families, we'd be able to give each family 4,600 dollars a year. And this added to their present income should eliminate poverty. Direct aid to the poor, however, is only running only about 600 dollars per family. It would seem that someplace there must be some overhead."

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 3:59:41 PM   
SoftBonds


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Status: offline 		45 Billion on welfare, over 450 billion on defense...


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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 5:34:19 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

10 times greater than in the dark depths of the Depression. We're spending 45 billion dollars on welfare. Now do a little arithmetic, and you'll find that if we divided the 45 billion dollars up equally among those 9 million poor families, we'd be able to give each family 4,600 dollars a year.


It was a nice little lie then, and still is. Welfare pays for more than just those 9 million poor families. Maybe you folks who want to demonize the program so much should take a closer look into what you are demonizing. You may be surprised.

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 7:30:33 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		The one thing that gets me is that those who shout the loudest against any type of government assistance to the least among us are those who shout the loudest in favor of corporate welfare...end the tax subsidies to big oil, big pharma, big agra and watch what that does to the federal budget.

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/1/2012 7:38:56 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

The one thing that gets me is that those who shout the loudest against any type of government assistance to the least among us are those who shout the loudest in favor of corporate welfare...end the tax subsidies to big oil, big pharma, big agra and watch what that does to the federal budget.


But if we cut the massive subsidies to the corporations, they will pass the costs on to their customers. And, the free market-er, whoops, um, don't think about the free market when talking about corporate subsidies...pretend I didn't mention it...

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/2/2012 1:36:00 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

The one thing that gets me is that those who shout the loudest against any type of government assistance to the least among us are those who shout the loudest in favor of corporate welfare...end the tax subsidies to big oil, big pharma, big agra and watch what that does to the federal budget.


Or they are the ones who have all the benefits guaranteed to them via VA or medicare.

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/2/2012 1:47:07 AM   
DaNewAgeViking


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Status: offline 		Question: can he unilaterally cut off public aid, or does that have to go through the legislature, and what are the odds on that?

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/2/2012 2:59:35 AM   
erieangel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Question: can he unilaterally cut off public aid, or does that have to go through the legislature, and what are the odds on that?




It is a part of the 2012-2013 budget. The new fiscal year starts July 1 and yes, the legislature has to vote on it. Since PA voters went crazy, like they did in many other states in 2010 and voted in majority Republicans/tea partiers, I can see it happening.

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/2/2012 3:17:38 AM   
erieangel


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Joined: 6/19/2011
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quote:

It is NOT the government's job to take care of people, which is something a progressive never understands. There are charities, and family assistance groups that are privately funded do help out those unfortunate people. The government simply cannot raise enough funds to deal with every social ill that befalls a citizen... Tough shit, but that's the way it is.



Ever hear the phrase "I am my brother's keeper"? The social safety net was established because it was the moral thing to do. We are all our "brothers' keepers". It is the job of a society (including the government of that society) to take care of those unable to care for themselves.

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/2/2012 3:22:16 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
The one thing that gets me is that those who shout the loudest against any type of government assistance to the least among us are those who shout the loudest in favor of corporate welfare...end the tax subsidies to big oil, big pharma, big agra and watch what that does to the federal budget.


I am not in favor of cutting this program; it seems to be a "gap coverage" program.

I am in favor of cutting tax subsidies to big oil, big pharma, big agra, under one condition: these same tax "subsidies" are cut for everyone getting them.

erieangel, if you would be so kind as to list out the tax "subsidies" (and "subsidy" is the wrong word; a subsidy is something paid out; what is being called a subsidy is nothing more than a corporate tax break -a reduction in what the company is supposed to pay in) big oil is getting, I think it would be enlightening.

I have said for years now that big agra needs to be cut off from being subsidized. The D's are just as much in bed with big pharma as the R's. I support cutting their tax breaks.

You know what we've gotten from decades of tax breaks? Screams, cries, and whines for more tax breaks. Congress carves loopholes into the tax code to help this group or that group. Why? Re-election. Move to a flat tax or a National Sales Tax and that will change dramatically. And, no, I don't care what that would do to the jobs in the IRS. I would applaud that, also.

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/2/2012 4:14:20 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		FR how is ANY charity going to cover ANYthing for 89,000 people, in ONE state.
the GENERAL welfare is for ALL citizens isnt it, not just those who are middle class?
Allowing the working/lower classes to starve isnt covering or serving the general welfare of ALL citizens
fuck the legalese, its basic humanity

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/2/2012 8:55:33 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
It was a nice little lie then, and still is. Welfare pays for more than just those 9 million poor families. Maybe you folks who want to demonize the program so much should take a closer look into what you are demonizing. You may be surprised.


Which part is the lie? That 45 billion was spent on welfare, or that if it was evenly distributed among the 9.3 million families it would equal 4600 per person?

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RE: PA Gov. Corbett to eliminate the general assistance... - 3/2/2012 9:24:41 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Welfare spending [is] 10 times greater than in the dark depths of the Depression. We're spending 45 billion dollars on welfare. Now do a little arithmetic


I know your point was about overhead. But let's do a little arithmetic on this claim (which I understand you're quoting).

Start with population--in 1935, that's 127 million people. In 2012, that's 313 million--a 246% increase.

$4.5 million in 1935 is $71 million in 2011 dollars. So if we're only spending $45 million today, that's a decrease of $66.5 million dollars (in 2011 dollars), even though the population has grown 2 and a half times.

My problem is this--when the sensational openings like this are the introduction, it's hard to believe what comes next. It's rhetoric, not economics.

That said, I agree that overhead is a problem, and I applaud the administration's crack down on fraud, more than tripling the amount recovered in the previous administration in medicaid, for example.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-10-19/medicaid-fraud-money/50831614/1
http://www.npr.org/2012/02/29/147616536/texas-doctor-indicted-in-record-medicare-fraud-case
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/03/01/44311.htm

2012 and 2013 both see overhead reduction portions of the Affordable Care Act implemented:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/healthreform/timeline



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/2/2012 9:25:36 AM >

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