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RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 10:56:02 AM   
dovie


Posts: 1211
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Any signed contract you can take to a civil court, as far as I know. You seem exhausted with my opinion. You know what they say about opinions.


Mr. Burkani,

My apologies as there appears to be a misunderstanding. I was referring specifically to M/s contracts used within this realm. Sorry, if I wasn't clear,
My best to you and yours.

dovie

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 11:14:37 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		That you compare having a slave to owning a puppy is sad and stupid. Slave or not you *should* be a mature adult capable of taking care of yourself with no one else doing so or even holding your hand.

Relationships end when one or both partners are no longer happy in them - or at a least, again, they *should*.

Your partner no longer wanted to be in a relationship with you. Be an adult, suck it up, move on and stop the martyr act.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 11:22:53 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		Regarding other replies: I disagree that the earning ex has any responsibilty of supporting the non-earning ex after a breakup. If the non-earning ex was somehow forced by the earning ex to join the relationship, sure, but that's not the case. BOTH chose that the non-earner would be so. They CHOSE to put themselves into a position where they had no job/income. It's entirely their own fault that they do not have a way to support themselves. They couldve just as easily said, "no, I won't stop working because I want to be prepared if we break up or you die".



< Message edited by RumpusParable -- 3/3/2012 11:23:34 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 11:25:51 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

Regarding other replies: I disagree that the earning ex has any responsibilty of supporting the non-earning ex after a breakup. If the non-earning ex was somehow forced by the earning ex to join the relationship, sure, but that's not the case. BOTH chose that the non-earner would be so. They CHOSE to put themselves into a position where they had no job/income. It's entirely their own fault that they do not have a way to support themselves. They couldve just as easily said, "no, I won't stop working because I want to be prepared if we break up or you die".



Bingo.
I agree completely

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 11:25:58 AM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline 		I don't know if anyone is asserting that an earning ex has a duty to support a non-earning ex after a breakup. I think the point that most are trying to make is that people need to be wiser in order to avoid finding themselves in that situation. If you're the non-earner, you need to think ahead for your own sake. If you're the earner, you should be thinking ahead for your partner's sake.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 11:27:45 AM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

Regarding other replies: I disagree that the earning ex has any responsibilty of supporting the non-earning ex after a breakup. If the non-earning ex was somehow forced by the earning ex to join the relationship, sure, but that's not the case. BOTH chose that the non-earner would be so. They CHOSE to put themselves into a position where they had no job/income. It's entirely their own fault that they do not have a way to support themselves. They couldve just as easily said, "no, I won't stop working because I want to be prepared if we break up or you die".




Depends on which responsibility you are referring to. From a legal standpoint, you are probably correct.
However, did you care about this person? If so, you probably want to help them get back on their feet. Not find them dead in a gutter in a month (hyperbole I know, but point taken?)
Did you have sex with this person? Get things from him/her? Services? Pleasure? There is some question as to whether you fully paid for what you got. I'd get the other person back on their feet to make sure that I had properly compensated them-the better to encourage future interactions being pleasant.

Now please don't take this to mean that I think slaves should rely on the goodwill of masters and abandon all resources. A slave does have a responsibility for self care, and that includes making sure they have some resources to leave if needed.
I guess I'm another of the "both parties here are wrong," crowd.

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RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 11:33:38 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

Regarding other replies: I disagree that the earning ex has any responsibilty of supporting the non-earning ex after a breakup. If the non-earning ex was somehow forced by the earning ex to join the relationship, sure, but that's not the case. BOTH chose that the non-earner would be so. They CHOSE to put themselves into a position where they had no job/income. It's entirely their own fault that they do not have a way to support themselves. They couldve just as easily said, "no, I won't stop working because I want to be prepared if we break up or you die".




In the U.S., the laws on common law marriage differ from state to state, so it does depend on which state you are in. But some states do recognize financial rights after the break-up of a common law marriage. In addition, if there are children involved, you have a whole different set of laws kick in to deal with the economic support issue. I think anyone entering any type of relationship that resembles a marriage, but lacks the license, needs to seriously think about these issues ahead of time, not after the fact.


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 11:40:40 AM   
dovie


Posts: 1211
Status: offline 		Anybody? Um, we are talking about a Master/slave relationship right?. Yanno what? Neber mind. Soooooo surprised at some of the replies from seasoned Dominants and subs.

frig it,
dovie

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 11:50:10 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dovie

Anybody? Um, we are talking about a Master/slave relationship right?. Yanno what? Neber mind. Soooooo surprised at some of the replies from seasoned Dominants and subs.

frig it,
dovie


I'm sorry if something in my post is not clear, but all I was suggesting is that a M/s live-in relationship that lasts a certain length of time could be considered a common law marriage in some states. I was not talking about marriage per se. A relationship does not have to be vanilla to fall under common law marriage laws. Again, if I am misinterpreting something in this thread, please clarify for me, but the thread does seem to be discussing what responsibilities people should or might have after the dissolution of a M/s relationship. If I have it wrong, then ignore my advice on this thread.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 11:54:52 AM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline 		It's tangential, but let me clear up this common law marriage issue.

No. It's never a common law marriage just because two people live together for 5 years, 10 years, or 100 years. If you live in one of the few places that recognizes common law marriage, you still need to have full intent to be married in order to qualify. You need to live as husband as wife, consider yourselves married, and hold yourselves out to the world as married.

The relationship underlying this thread came nowhere close.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 12:01:32 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

The relationship underlying this thread came nowhere close.


I had no other information about the relationship described in this thread other than what the OP had put forth. I do not know the OP personally, so just reacting to what they wrote and what others had said. If you are aware of the entire details of the relationship then obviously you are in a better position to comment as to this specific relationship. And just to clarify, my first post in this thread was completely supportive of your own stated position - people should be aware of what they are getting into and take appropriate precautions. My later post was only a direct response to RumpusParable's comment and limited to those comments.

However, I do feel that M/s relationships can differ as to how people frame them. I see nothing preventing any given M/s couple from holding themselves out as husband and wife should they choose to do so. Or are you saying that M/s actually precludes people from creating a common law situation for themselves? Personally, I would not have presumed M/s to preclude any arrangement between the two people involved.




< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 3/3/2012 12:11:50 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 12:03:43 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline 		SpiritedRadiance,
I don't know if I'm misreading you, but I simply cannot agree with you that a Master indiscriminately owes a dismissed slave a living. There is a certain responsibility of conduct, yes, but not to that extent, and certainly not at the preclusion of the released slave's own efforts. By extension of your argument, the ex-Master has is basically expected to support the slave until he or she chooses to say "ok no more, I can take care of myself now"? That's exploitation beyond the bounds of the D/s dynamic.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 12:08:24 PM   
NiceButMeanGirl


Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline 		OP, your original post is why I would never give up an income of my own for anyone. I would never quit a job or lose my source of income for ANYONE. I never did when I was sub and, now that I'm Dominant, I would never ask someone to do that for me. As a matter of fact, I require that they have their own source of income and, no, I don't want their money. They get to keep it.

Did he force you to give up your income? Or did you choose to give it up? He might have said something to the effect of either you quit working or else there's no relationship, but you still made a choice there. Sometimes we think with our hearts and not our heads and we end up paying for it. Live and learn I guess. It's unfortunate that you are in this situation, but next time you will know better. Good luck in the future.

NBMG


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 12:17:19 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

The relationship underlying this thread came nowhere close.


I had no other information about the relationship described in this thread other than what the OP had put forth. I do not know the OP personally, so just reacting to what they wrote and what others had said. If you are aware of the entire details of the relationship then obviously you are in a better position to comment as to this specific relationship. And just to clarify, my first post in this thread was completely supportive of your own stated position - people should be aware of what they are getting into and take appropriate precautions. My later post was only a direct response to RumpusParable's comment and limited to those comments.

However, I do feel that M/s relationships can differ as to how people frame them. I see nothing preventing any given M/s couple from holding themselves out as husband and wife should they choose to do so. Or are you saying that M/s actually precludes people from creating a common law situation for themselves? Personally, I would not have presumed M/s to preclude any arrangement between the two people involved.





I don't know the OP. I just infer from the facts that this relationship was no marriage and was probably quite short-term.

A D/S, M/S, whatever, couple can absolutely be married. I just think it clearly was not the case here.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 12:17:57 PM   
AislynLass


Posts: 56
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		I'm extremely surprised also at some of the responses from posters who I generally respected. While everyone's meaning of what it means to be a Master and/or a Dominant varies according to the individual, the one common denominator seemed to be the aspect of the Master and Dominant being the one in control. Control carries with it responsibility, and I frankly do not understand how a person calling themselves a Master or a Dominant would wish that the person who gave up working in order to better please the Master or Dominant would feel justified in so neatly washing their hands of responsibility towards that person as soon as the relationship ended. This is considering a relationship where it did not end because the slave or submissive violated some basic tenet of trust or unethical or violent behavior towards the Master or Dominant.

If I were a Master or Dominant, I do not see how I would feel okay that my slave or submissive who gave up or put on hold their career to please me and make themselves more available for my wishes, should then find themselves in a worse situation when the relationship ends that when it began. For the sake of the discussion, I am focusing on the financial aspect. For lack of a better way of phrasing it, I would not wish to see them in a disadvantaged or less position as a result of the time they spent in the relationship with me.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the Master or Dominant should be responsible for the slave or submissive for the rest of their lives after the breakup, but there seems a terrible lack of parity in the situation where the Master or Dominant has enjoyed the benefits of the relationship and is essentially not the worse for it at the end, while the slave or submissive who has contributed their time and efforts in the relationship should bear the worse....especially when the Master or Dominant is making the decision to end the relationship.

I hope I've been able to clearly express my point. Relationships don't work out and people break up all the time for a myriad of reasons, and M/s and D/s relationships are no different in that. However, I just believe that due to the Master and the Dominant choosing to hold the position of control in that relationship, that connotes some measure of responsibility towards the slave or submissive to "see them right" at the end so that they don't find themselves in a worse-off position financially, professionally, etc. at the end of the relationship than they were in the beginning. Again, this doesn't have to mean some cash payout or whatever at the end, but the Master or Dominant acting in their slave's or submissive's best interest. Depending on the couple, it could mean ensuring that the slave's or submissive's skills might be kept current through classes for instance. I agree very much with the comments that have been made that it is very important to have clear discussions of the "what-if", especially if the level of commitment that a Master or Dominant may require in a TPE 24/7 relationship necessitates the slave or submissive stepping back from their career or education to be 24/7 at home for instance. And yes, I know that not all Masters or Dominants, and not all TPE 24/7 relationships require that. My response here with this discussion is really directed to those that are of that type.

< Message edited by AislynLass -- 3/3/2012 12:21:55 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 12:25:23 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		I'll never understand why some people rely on a significant other for 100% financial support long term. What if the significant other becomes non-consensually abusive? What if the significant other cheats and their partner ends up with an incurable STD because they stayed and put up with the cheating due to lack of income? What if the significant other decides to leave for someone younger? At least with divorce there's a chance of alimony or palimony. Even during the relationship, with no income, how would the partner buy gifts for the significant other? I know I couldn't see myself buying my husband a birthday gift with his own paycheck. Plus I'd feel like a freeloader, even if he asked me not to work. Bottom line, this is 2012, not 1920. I apologize if this offends anyone, but IMO relying on someone else for 100% financial support for an extended period of time is extremely irresponsible.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 12:25:25 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The op is a student from her other posts. Her profile is hidden so I had to look to get an age and some idea about her situation.

Unless the submissive was a threat in some manner, I would do the roommate thing until he was on his feet. However, I no longer accept a man that has no income as I did at one time. It is too risky for them in all sorts of ways and my guys always had a back up plan anyway.

OP, you are young. Most have gone through those early on relationship mistakes where we do risky things or don't think of everything. Many have crashed down to earth in awful circumstances and had to rebuild or save ourselves. You can do this, if this is about you, which is sounds like it is because of your wording. It doesn't matter if the dom thinks this is good for you... or whether you were dedicated and gave your all... what matters now is the situation you find yourself in and what you are going to do to get through it.

Stop looking at how you have been wronged if you think that. Start thinking about how to remedy whatever situation you are in and in the future, make sure you aren't in the same situation again. This is no different than a vanilla relationship in many ways and you have to do what you have to do, to get on with it. Good luck.


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 12:29:20 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AislynLass


I agree very much with the comments that have been made that it is very important to have clear discussions of the "what-if", especially if the level of commitment that a Master or Dominant may require in a TPE 24/7 relationship necessitates the slave or submissive stepping back from their career or education to be 24/7 at home for instance. And yes, I know that not all Masters or Dominants, and not all TPE 24/7 relationships require that. My response here with this discussion is really directed to those that are of that type.


I think this is really at the heart of the issue. Submissives/slaves need to be mindful ahead of time of how decisions around education/career can affect them long term. It is utterly naive in this day and age to think that any type of relationship will last forever. In fact, I know of NO structure of relationship that is permanent. But it seems to me that submissives/slaves sometimes approach M/s feeling that it protects them "more" than marriage does. ie., even in a vanilla marriage situation most young women would at least contemplate "what happens if we get divorced", but that same thought does not seem to cross everyone's mind for an M/s relationship "what happens if we break up", even though there are no legal protections. Why is that??

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 12:32:46 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: AislynLass


I agree very much with the comments that have been made that it is very important to have clear discussions of the "what-if", especially if the level of commitment that a Master or Dominant may require in a TPE 24/7 relationship necessitates the slave or submissive stepping back from their career or education to be 24/7 at home for instance. And yes, I know that not all Masters or Dominants, and not all TPE 24/7 relationships require that. My response here with this discussion is really directed to those that are of that type.


I think this is really at the heart of the issue. Submissives/slaves need to be mindful ahead of time of how decisions around education/career can affect them long term. It is utterly naive in this day and age to think that any type of relationship will last forever. In fact, I know of NO structure of relationship that is permanent. But it seems to me that submissives/slaves sometimes approach M/s feeling that it protects them "more" than marriage does. ie., even in a vanilla marriage situation most young women would at least contemplate "what happens if we get divorced", but that same thought does not seem to cross everyone's mind for an M/s relationship "what happens if we break up", even though there are no legal protections. Why is that??


Because some people are naive and short-sighted.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: releasing a slave - 3/3/2012 12:33:09 PM   
AislynLass


Posts: 56
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I'll never understand why some people rely on a significant other for 100% financial support long term. What if the significant other becomes non-consensually abusive? What if the significant other cheats and their partner ends up with an incurable STD because they stayed and put up with the cheating due to lack of income? What if the significant other decides to leave for someone younger? At least with divorce there's a chance of alimony or palimony. Even during the relationship, with no income, how would the partner buy gifts for the significant other? I know I couldn't see myself buying my husband a birthday gift with his own paycheck. Plus I'd feel like a freeloader, even if he asked me not to work. Bottom line, this is 2012, not 1920. I apologize if this offends anyone, but IMO relying on someone else for 100% financial support for an extended period of time is extremely irresponsible.


But what if that is the dynamic required by the Master or the Dominant? That level of control necessitates responsibility for that person within the control. Again, my comments are being directed to the type of relationship where that level of dependency and control is required by the Master or Dominant in the situation. And yes, both the Dominant and submissive parties in this type of relationship need to consider carefully all of the ramifications. I think this thread is an insightful discussion that hopefully may cause people to think carefully about their choices.

< Message edited by AislynLass -- 3/3/2012 12:37:14 PM >

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Aislyn

Life is short. bend the rules, forgive quicky, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 40
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