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RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 10:24:15 AM

mynxkat

Posts: 240
Joined: 5/7/2011
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Lots of interesting info in this thread.

I'm an addict. I'm addicted to nicotine and caffeine. Master wants me to quit smoking, but realizes that simply telling me to stop isn't going to work out so well. Nicotine is a BITCH to get unhooked from. I've done it twice in my life, but picked it back up again within a year each time. He encourages me to control my smoking, though, and that's having some positive results. Currently I get 7 cigarettes a day. In another week or two I'll probably be at a point where I voluntarily drop that down to 6 a day. Master has told me that he'd like me to get to the point of having 3 a day. No doubt when I do get to that point he'll start urging me to work on cutting that down to one a day.

The whole 'quit or you're gone' approach would not work with me. I don't respond well to threats. Master knows me well enough to realize this, and has tailored his approach accordingly.

Now the caffeine addiction is a whole other matter. Master and I both are addicted to that one, in the form of coffee. However, it is a managed addiction, we each drink about a pot of coffee a day spread out through the day. Neither of us feel any great need to change this, so it stands.

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

Post #: 61

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 1:28:59 PM

Exidor

Posts: 135
Joined: 12/31/2011
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(smoking | cocaine | gambling | other) are my own hard limits. If my wife / sub / friend began exhibiting the symptoms, I'd expect them to actively and successfully deal with the problem. Otherwise, "it's been nice knowing you."

(in reply to MrsT301)

Post #: 62

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 2:09:46 PM

hausboy

Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: imdmb

except he never gave up the drinking either, he tried, he failed, he got the step saying that he was a worthless nothing without god and it made him feel like a worthless nothing, even though he actualy did believe in god, which made him worse, everybody in that session got worse during that step and went back to drinking because they were told they didnt have the power to stop, he just happened to drink and start heroin instead of just drink

edited because of spelling >.<

imdmb....you are incorrect about what the 12 steps even say. They NEVER say that anyone is a worhless nothing, in fact, many of the steps have affirmations to support self worth. I'm agnostic, and yet I have a very spiritual 12 step program. You don't have to believe in God for 12 steps to work. there are some groups that are specific for recovering atheists--many of them recover as well. The higher power simply refers to a power greater than yourself.

It's likely your friend gave you his own interpretation of what he believes he heard....or he went to a meeting where the people there did not behave in accordance with the 12 steps and 12 traditions, which govern meeting behavior. Cross-talk is not allowed--this means that in a meeting, when you speak, you only speak of yourself....and not "you should do this..."

edited to be a little kinder....

< Message edited by hausboy -- 3/8/2012 2:12:22 PM >

(in reply to imdmb)

Post #: 63

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 2:20:47 PM

hausboy

Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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Hi SunshineMiss

Believe it or not, that step was surprisingly liberating...which is the intent. I didn't want to list my character flaws...first, because I initially didn't think I had any [wow. way wrong there] and I certainly wasn't about to admit them to anyone if I did. Admitting my character defects was a big part of taking accountability--realizing that it wasn't always about "me the victim" and that I had behaved in ways that damaged and negatively affected other people. And the person I hurt the most? ME.

The next step involves admitting these defects to another person-- it is an experience that is scary and humbling, but to have a fellow alcoholic accept me--flaws and all--and then later, make amends to those people-- it was one of the most healing and empowering things I ever did. (and yes--there are 12 step groups that are women-only, where they talk a lot about empowerment)

(in reply to MrsT301)

Post #: 64

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 2:45:00 PM

LunaM

Posts: 183
Joined: 3/3/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

You know, Carol and Jeff have been together a longggggggggggg time. They must be doing something right!

As I said in my post, I do not know their dynamic, I was speaking strictly from my own opinion.
I did not mean any offense in anyway, just stating what I thought. :)

< Message edited by LunaM -- 3/8/2012 2:46:57 PM >

_____________________________

~BloodRed's Slave~

~Love is our response to our highest values and can be nothing else~

~And yet she had never felt more totally committed to a will, which was not her own, more totally a slave and more content to be so~

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

Post #: 65

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 5:21:55 PM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

For Carol and I, this works out but I suspect the only reason it works out is that there are no "slips" between us. There is "absolute, 100% obedience" or "not mine". In other words, I placed a substantial enough penalty on the table that her addiction was not able to overcome it. That's how it is with all the commands I give her.

MrsT301 said:
I don't think this would fly with me. If my Husband told me to quit smoking I don't think I would be able to do it. Or want to for that matter.

OK, I get that. But let's suppose that your husband said, "If you smoke one more cigarette... one puff... at all.... I will absolutely divorce you immediately." and made you believe it? Then would that cigarette be that attractive? Actually, what I told Carol was much, much worse than that. What I told her was, "Nope, I'll still love you if you disobey... love you, adore you, and think that you're the best freakin partner in the whole world. But if you disobey I won't ever again be able to see you as my property and that feeds me a great deal."

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that people seem to assume that these commands come with no serious "or else" attached. In my world they do and it's way more serious than "I'll spank you".

I am curious about something, and I hope you believe me when I say no offense at all is intended.

If I remember correctly, you and Carol were married before you went to M/s. Even if you removed her collar, the two of you would remain husband and wife. If I am wrong, I am sure you will let me know.

So, if it meant not just losing the collar, but losing Carol, could you still be as resolute about "all or nothing"?

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 66

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 5:39:56 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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It is absolutely true that 30% to 50% of people in AA will have a relapse. But 94% go on to remain sober. I have a great aunt with more than 45 years sobriety. Did she have a couple of slips that first year? Sure. But that was 45 years ago and the 45 years sobriety far outweighs the two or three nights when she did drink.

I have a friend with more than 25 years sobriety who had a slip about 5 years in. He and his wife were on vacation and he bought one drink. Drank half and that was it. The half a pina colada does not outweigh the 25 years since then.

I also have a father who refused rehab, wouldn't go to meetings. He stayed dry for several years and then went back to drinking for another ten. He now has alcoholic dementia which he would not have gotten if he had had a one or two night slip and then went back to working the program.

Talking about recidivism rates without stating how long they return for, and what the prognosis is in the long run is using statistics to mask facts.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 3/8/2012 5:42:28 PM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to MrsT301)

Post #: 67

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 5:40:52 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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LunaM asked:
I understand that your dynamic is different than mine but why go to such extremes with your sub?

I'm not offended but I'm at a loss for words. This is kind of like someone asking you "Why on earth do you like vanilla ice cream?" I dunno, I just do. Sure, I could back into it and name a bunch of individual things which appeal to me about vanilla as a flavor. But honestly, those things never quite add up to the totality of it. I think the best answer to "why do you prefer..." type questions is simply, "Because I do."

Carol isn't my "sub". She's my wife and my property who has given over all authority to me in a TPE relationship. If she disobeyed, even once, then she hasn't given over all authority has she? At a bare minimum, she didn't give me authority in that one case so it would be "mostly all authority". We prefer what to us is the simplicity of it actually being "all" authority.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LunaM)

Post #: 68

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 5:48:09 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub
So, if it meant not just losing the collar, but losing Carol, could you still be as resolute about "all or nothing"?

The problem I'm having answering this question is that the situation you're suggesting really involves some man other than myself... some guy who's more interested in roles than people... some guy who for some reason needs obedience from his partner... some guy.. not me.

I can't even imagine why I'd want to even consider anything which involved "losing Carol". I can't imagine why I'd structure any arrangement in that way. There are no such criteria in our marriage now... not even things like, "what if she cheated on me?" I refuse to ever lay down a consequence that involves me leaving Carol because I'm not the bluffing kind. So if that thing happened, I'd leave.

In the end, the standards I set.... WE set actually... around her obedience have less to do with the consequence of failure and more to do with the daily reality of success. We like the results of being on our "a game" so we strive to do it. In Carol's own words:

"There's a world of difference between 99% and 100%."

We like that difference.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 3/8/2012 6:38:56 PM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

Post #: 69

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 7:15:30 PM

hausboy

Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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Hi Jeff
I fully respect the relationship you have with Carol--and I'm certain you love each other very much, as I believe love is the foundation of all successful relationships.

here's where I am having trouble understanding the whole TPE thing-- addictions are truly powerful and complex problems. It is not about willpower or testing one's mettle. There is a deep physical and psychological drive, as well a chemical one. If someone I loved had an addiction, and suffered a slip, regardless of whether or not they had been "ordered" not to, my first priority would be to help them get back into a program and help through whatever it was that led them back to using...Not kick them to curb for "disobedience." I hope I misread/misinterpreted what you were saying.

I would love to be able to drink half a glass of beer, but once that alcohol passes my lips, it feels as though someone else has gotten behind the wheel of my brain and I lose all ability to control it. I've been sober 20 years this August, but I still have to remain vigilant and mind cravings and the alcoholic drive. I still have to fight the urge--sometimes, it is overwhelming. It has nothing to do with obedience.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 70

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 9:44:00 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

Let me try to explain Hausboy. This, like my last post to JstAnotherSub, has gotten rewritten at least 3 times because it's hard to explain but I'm giving it a go.

You, like so many others, focus on the failure part of "just obey". But we don't focus on that. For us, it's all about the sucess and the team work. In all my various learnings in leadership, one of the most fundamental and true statements I know of is:

People rise or fall to the level of your expectations

What I have done with Carol is set an expectation that it is perfectly feasible to simply obey or... if obeying is problematic... then discuss the issue like an adult. In the act of doing so, I changed her. My simple belief that she could "just obey" has made it true... as I knew it would. In short, what you and so many others see as me being a hard-ass is in fact simply me seeing Carol in the most positive light then helping to make that vision real. By simply not allowing the concept of a "slip" into the entire conversation from the very beginning I have avoided the problem. We don't need to worry about stuff like this. I never need to fret about punishment. Life is just a lot simpler.

In pragmatic terms, Carol would've struggled with disobeying me long, long before there was any collar in our marriage. Now she's been "mine" for 4 years and during that time the thought of disobeying a command has become... well... unthinkable. When disobedience literally becomes unthinkable then it is no longer D/s in the way I read about it here.

Also, let's remember Carol's not "getting kicked to the curb" for a "slip". For starters, we're not talking about "slips" here... we're talking about an adult making a choice and then living with it's results. We're also not talking about any curb. This is strictly a dictionary discussion about what the word "total" means. I'm grooving on the whole "total thing" and she doesn't want to disappoint me. But if she does "slip", I cannot call up Websters and ask them to update the definition of total to look more like "Mostly". Both she and I have to live with the new reality that it is no longer "total" nor can it ever be again. Absolutes are a bitch like that, neh?

Trust me on this. If I'm not able to deal with Carol's alcohol then I'll be getting help. But she's not going to have to face the problem alone. It's actually fascinating to see how deep the internal enslavement goes as I directly battle the addiction by trying to reprogram her relationship to alcohol. It's easy to say "don't drink". It's a LOT harder to get her to see the alcohol in a more objective light the way, for instance, I do. The Jury's out on whether that's going to be possible or not. I may have to settle for "no alcohol ever".

edited to add from Carol
Carol (the imagery girl) suggested you think of the scene in Secretary where he sits her down and commands her that she is done with cutting. He said it. She absorbed it. The box went into the river. Done deal. In that scene, he's not being a big bad-ass tough guy. He's loving her and she's sucking it in like a sponge. That scene is totally realistic for us although just as one would expect... not quite that neat and tidy depending on how large the change being wrought is.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 3/8/2012 10:06:36 PM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to hausboy)

Post #: 71

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/8/2012 11:04:41 PM

subbyinlosangele

Posts: 117
Joined: 1/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fallon0627

Okay I have a inquiry on how you as a sub handle restrictions placed on your addictions such as: food, soda, cig, alcohol, drugs and so on. My Master has cut my soda intake to one 12oz per week. It has been really hard because I am highly addicted to Mt Dew; it is to the point of being a physical need when I don't get it. I have had a few slips.

What are your experiences with getting beyond it and obeying. I know that pleasing my Master should come first and I want to. But it is not as easy as that. I have gone several days with out and went into bad withdawls like, headaches irratability, shakes or very jittery. And then when i finally do drink one its a very gratifing, consuming, and needfull physical experience.

Thanks for all postitive replies.

Forget what your master says. You should get off the stuff because you're screwing up your body. If giving up Mountain Dew does all this because you stopped drinking it, you are pumping too much sugar and crap into your body. You just need to go cold turkey and let the crap work its way out of your system.

(in reply to fallon0627)

Post #: 72

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/9/2012 12:03:09 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

It is absolutely true that 30% to 50% of people in AA will have a relapse. But 94% go on to remain sober.

94% of the 5-10% who remain after 12 months?

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 73

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/9/2012 6:35:44 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

I just want to say one last thing about 12 steps (again using the term broadly - not limited to AA, and not limited to god/religious based programs).

The three people in my life who have managed to become sober after years and sometimes decades of alcohol and drug abuse did it through some form of 12 steps.

The one person in my life who did not successfully control their addiction is now dead. They never did 12 steps. I cannot answer if 12 steps would have worked for them or not. That is, of course, now an impossible question to answer.

12 steps is by no means the only way to achieve sobriety. Maybe it is not even the best. But for three people in my life, it worked. And if it works for even one person on the face of the planet then that one person is better off for having at least tried it. Those three people are now all married. One is a stepdad. One has two children of their own. They are all employed. They lead full productive lives. And they are big proponents of 12 steps - how could they not be?

If a patient had cancer and a doctor came to them and said we have a drug therapy that we think might work in 1% of the cases, would you want them to try it out, or would you say, no stick to the therapies that have a higher rate of success. Unless there is some huge negative side effect to taking the drug, wouldn't you recommend they at least try it in hopes that maybe they are the 1%? If the patient were me, I would definitely want to try the drug and hope that I am the 1%. And if it fails, I still have other options to try.

I just want to say to everyone, that when it comes to serious addiction issues, I would not dismiss ANY possible method to recovery. Again, unless there is some huge negative effect to trying something, I think any programs that have found success for certain people are possibilities. I think people should research and come up with the best thing that might work for them, but at the end of the day, if after true concerted effort one thing doesn't work, by all means try other things. Why would any of us want to dissuade people from trying any recovery method that has been shown to work, even if it only works for some?

As for the OP and the original question, again, there are many approaches. Each requires commitment and a concerted effort. Find what works best and stick with it. If working with someone managing that process works for you (like your Dominant), by all means do it. If that doesn't work, then you should still try to do it yourself. Addictions, generally speaking, are not positive forces in our lives. Be open to different approaches. Ultimately you want to find the thing that works for you. And that may not be the thing that works for someone else. But don't dismiss any approach too soon.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to fallon0627)

Post #: 74

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/9/2012 4:24:12 PM

fallon0627

Posts: 42
Joined: 1/22/2011
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My Master went cold turkey when he quit soda, and while I am allowed one a week I think it will eventually go to no soda at all. I agree with drugs and alcohol you cant just stop with no medical follow up and supervision. While withdrawls from caffeine suck it is not life threating. I appreciate all the responses thus far.

(in reply to MrsT301)

Post #: 75

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/9/2012 6:39:22 PM

collaredlilone

Posts: 34
Joined: 12/6/2005
Status: offline

i am not one to usually post any advice on here but here i go with my thoughts as a slave collared to my Master and Mistress:
cutting back caffeen can be a hard task to handle. i know from experience of the headaches and the jitters and the withdrawls. i know myself need to cut back as well, though not demanded from my Owners.
but i will say this.
if you are having such withdrawls with the stipulations that your Master has given you, the best thing you can do as property is go to him with your concerns. let Him know you wish to obey but what you are experiencing.
you never mentioned that i saw as whether you lived in his home, if this is the case and are away from him, He may not know of this problem of the withdrawls being so harsh and this is something He NEEDS to know.
if being told this with descussion and talking with him, there could be another arrangement that could be given to work with you and still get the job done. but yes i agree with another post you have to want to quit the caffeen.
i personally have the problems of loving my pepsi so i know it would be harder than hell to just drop it.
just talk to your Master. He if Owns you should want nothing but the best for His property and work positively to train you as He wishes.
i really hope that helps or just to know there is another slave with such a problem. oh by the way yes caffeen can be just as much of a addiction as smoking or drugs...your body becomes adapted and dependant on such a source.
good luck and if you want to talk further this girl is always up for a message from you.
girl

(in reply to Asherscorp1)

Post #: 76

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/9/2012 8:07:21 PM

hausboy

Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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Thanks Jeff...I really do appreciate your post. I think your post explains it quite well, and does add a greater dynamic to the relationship you have. I think in the past, you've described your dynamic in much simpler terms--and by doing so, it left me with a very one-dimensional concept in mind--thanks for the clarification.
regards
haus

(in reply to collaredlilone)

Post #: 77

RE: restrictions on addictions - 3/10/2012 2:21:40 PM

fallon0627

Posts: 42
Joined: 1/22/2011
Status: offline

Thank you Collaredlilone. We don't live together, but talk daily and see each other weekly. I havnt told him just how bad withdrawls have been; i dont want to seem weak. Some days there not so bad and I can focus on other things. Then my awarness of the loss is super focused and thats all i think about. I think i will have to go cold turkey. After drinking my one soda I get this blissfull content feeling hours later i crash really hard and then spend the next few days struggling. I would love to talk.

Best wishes and thanks for your support.

(in reply to hausboy)

Post #: 78

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