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RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 7:27:25 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		You know, at the end of the day, you are like so many anti-tax conservatives.

You want all of the benefits of living in a Constitutional democracy and a social safety net state, but you don't want to have to pay for any of it.

What an unbelievable sense of entitlement.

Democracy and a civilized society do not come free. Freedom is not free.


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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 7:50:56 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

You know, at the end of the day, you are like so many anti-tax conservatives.

You want all of the benefits of living in a Constitutional democracy and a social safety net state, but you don't want to have to pay for any of it.

What an unbelievable sense of entitlement.

Democracy and a civilized society do not come free. Freedom is not free.


THis,
The "Im ok, but fuck you Jack" mentality is the biggest red flag I take notice of in personal relationships. I have a lot of weird friends and acquaintances from lots of political views, but a serious humanitarian side is a must. I have radical loonys on both sides and I mean loonies that I like and hang around with but they are acquaintances.
Its not restricted to republicans/conservatives, or democrats/liberals but it is a deal breaker.
I consider the source , their ability to see the facts versus bleating about what supposedly is fact (like this thread , no mention that it was in direct response to Robertsons bullshit).
And the unwillingness to actually do the work to get the facts( claiming Fluke wants her sex life covered, when she in actual fact never mentioned her"sex life" or needs, yet 95% of all responses Ive seen from rush fans over four or five forums have used that lie to further their " disgust" with the "left"
They also discount that women ARE being attacked, by all the Womens health bills brought out since 2010 by republicans in various states. BEFORE Obama mentioned the contraception changes.
Pat Robertson is Pat Robertson.
He doesnt rely on sponsors pulling out.
Trying to conflate rush with this malloy chap is at best pathetic


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(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 8:04:30 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

You know, at the end of the day, you are like so many anti-tax conservatives.

You want all of the benefits of living in a Constitutional democracy and a social safety net state, but you don't want to have to pay for any of it.

What an unbelievable sense of entitlement.

Democracy and a civilized society do not come free. Freedom is not free.



Wrong, we don't want the safety net, we want people to take responsibility for their own well being, and not rely on the government programs.


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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 8:05:05 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
Hiya again, Yatchie.

I am very well disenamored of the terms 'spread the wealth' or 're-distribute' also. But my premise is that if we were to refrain from maldistribution of the wealth in the first place, there would be no need for 're-distribution.' 

All modern societies, modern countries, need funds to operate. The US has the largest economy by nearly three times that of Japan or China, and it should be considered that there might be some 'baggage' obtaining thereby. Much as the disinclination to do so is inherent in this country, we have to take a look around and see what other successful economies are doing, if we wish to keep up. Germany out-exports the US, in absolute terms, with  ~ 37% of the population that we have. And its not due just to manufacturing. All developed economies have a larger service sector than manufacturing sector, Germany included. This crap game that we call 'The American Dream' is just that, just an illusion that if you throw the dice right by way of entrepreneurial hard work, you too can hit the jackpot. Japan, Germany, and most every other modern developed economy have a more sober and realistic view of things.

They provide the education needed for whatever pursuit in life, being as that they do not consider it a 'privilege' of the individual but rather a necessity of society to do so. There's one clue. They also consider it a necessity to sufficiently regulate the businesses, the work force, and the markets, for best regard to society rather than to the individual. After all that, they still have more than a few billionaires, because nothing in their regulations and looking out for their own citizens first, as many of them as possible, prevents a very talented person from getting his/her own in the process. But first things first. You are welcome to do however well you can, after the essentials are taken care of to begin with.

My motto is; if we don't like having so many poor people, then quit enacting laws that create so many of them. When real wages decline by more than 4% from 2000 to 2008, while people are witnessing and reading about all these CEO compensation packages, these millionaire condo and house flippers, etc., something is bound to not turn out right. Everybody starts to perceive it as a shell game they picked wrongly on. The taxes are less than in most other countries but the bills to be paid are higher, and that is another run around, always shopping for the less burdensome bills.

I have no definitive answer, but we would do well to look at some numbers here and start basing our choices on that rather than romantic and never actually successfully implemented economic Shangri-la.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/7/2012 8:30:16 AM >

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 9:20:22 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

You know, at the end of the day, you are like so many anti-tax conservatives.

You want all of the benefits of living in a Constitutional democracy and a social safety net state, but you don't want to have to pay for any of it.

What an unbelievable sense of entitlement.

Democracy and a civilized society do not come free. Freedom is not free.



Wrong, we don't want the safety net, we want people to take responsibility for their own well being, and not rely on the government programs.



Then stop driving on the roads (did you personally pay for all of them)?

Stop sending your children to school (even if they go to school privately) because all education receives government assistance.

Tell all the veterans coming home from the war in Iraq/Afghanistan that you're not interested in the Veterans Administration programs.

Tell all the farmers you are no longer interested in supporting farming.

Tell the local police department you're not interested in paying for their services.

Excuse me, but exactly who are the "people" you are referring to in your sentence.

Tax dollars go in. And tax dollars go out. This is the way ALL government programs are funded. The things I list above are government programs.

Every single American relies on government programs.


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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 9:38:18 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Then stop driving on the roads (did you personally pay for all of them)?



Do people that pay more into road taxes get to drive at a higher speed limit? Anyone who pays certain taxes is free to use the roads equally

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Stop sending your children to school (even if they go to school privately) because all education receives government assistance.



I'm quite sure parochial schools don't (and if they do, I'd be at the head of the pack, calling for it to stop) nor do quite a few other schools. It's the price they pay for being "private".

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Tell all the veterans coming home from the war in Iraq/Afghanistan that you're not interested in the Veterans Administration programs.



Non-sequitir in a discussion about un-balanced re-distribution


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Tell all the farmers you are no longer interested in supporting farming.



Ditto


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Tell the local police department you're not interested in paying for their services.



Why? Do they respond to certain peoples' homes, faster than others, depending upon which tax bracket they're in? Maybe in practice, at times but that's not what's supposed to happen.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 9:41:18 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Tell the local police department you're not interested in paying for their services.



Why? Do they respond to certain peoples' homes, faster than others, depending upon which tax bracket they're in? Maybe in practice, at times but that's not what's supposed to happen.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

You better believe they do.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 9:44:32 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Oh god, not a "love it or leave it" idiot.  It is my country too.  Why don't you leave, if you don't like the way things are going?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie



No! Take your failed utopian socialist/communist progressive ideology and get the hell out of my country



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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Liberal Talk Show Host Mocks Tornado Victims - 3/7/2012 9:52:24 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Ron Paul says they should fend for themselves..and not get any fed money!!! yay



It's evident you disagree with Paul. But I wonder if you actually understand why he holds such position?



Perhaps you might be so kind as to educate us.
Please tell us why mr.paul thinks the state has no obligation to its constituancy?

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Liberal Talk Show Host Mocks Tornado Victims - 3/7/2012 9:54:00 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

C'est le guerre, Mon Cheri.

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C'est la garre...if you need to get out of town quick.

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 9:56:18 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Do people that pay more into road taxes get to drive at a higher speed limit? Anyone who pays certain taxes is free to use the roads equally

And anybody who bitches about paying such taxes should maybe stop using the road, lest they sound like a six year old throwing a temper tantrum.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 9:58:53 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		DaddySatyr, all I am saying is that tax dollars go to pay for EVERY government program.

So people who do not want to pay taxes do not want to pay for things like roads and education.

You cannot have a civilized Constitutional democracy without taxes. It is IMPOSSIBLE.

Show me ONE place on the face of the planet that you would call a civilized Constitutional democracy that has ZERO taxes. Name me ONE.

And if you can name me one, then I encourage anyone who wants ZERO taxes to simply move there.

(When people say they want each person to be responsible for themselves and not rely on government programs - well, hello, all government and government funded activity are government programs. ALL of it comes out of our tax dollars. My prior post is in response to that.)

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 3/7/2012 10:02:45 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 10:00:56 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

Yes, it happens every time. When an emergency arises the conservatives and religious right who do not support the redistribution of income and believe in people taking responsibility for themselves are then standing in line to receive federal and state assistance. Again, I support the redistribution of wealth. But for those of you who do NOT support the concept of redistribution of wealth, and vote at every turn to deny OTHERS government assistance, please explain to me WHY exactly YOU are entitled to assistance now. Why is YOUR need any greater than that of anyone else? Why is it when people attack liberals it is about unnecessary "handouts" that conservative don't feel like paying for, but when it is conservatives who are hurt, they require necessary "assistance" and I am expected to pay. I'm happy to pay my taxes to help others. BUT it really bugs me when my tax dollars go to people who actually fight the concept of redistribution at every turn. Happy to get a handout when THEY are the ones in trouble. It's just those OTHER people who shouldn't get handouts. Ah yes, hypocrisy, gotta love it.


That's easy. They paid for it!

No they did not. They pay taxes like everyone else.

Government redistribution of wealth is nothing more than government sponsored insurance, force paid by the people, and doled out by government to whom it decides should receive it.

Like ted turner and bill gates? Why do you oppose the redistribution of wealth when it goes to the poor but do not oppose it when it goes to the not poor?

BUT it really bugs me when my tax dollars go to people who actually fight the concept of redistribution at every turn.

Well it should. On the other hand, should those whom are forced to support what they vehemently disagree with (government redistribution) be denied their claim for coverage (asking for the handout) which they have every right to make because they paid for it? There is no hypocrisy there.

Perhaps you might seek out the definition of hypocrisy.


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 10:02:54 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

You want all of the benefits of living in a Constitutional democracy and a social safety net state, but you don't want to have to pay for any of it.

What an unbelievable sense of entitlement.



Point to where I said anything like what you said (see bolded, and esp. underlined) or STFU.



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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Liberal Talk Show Host Mocks Tornado Victims - 3/7/2012 10:03:26 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie



I, as a libertarian







So far you do not seem to have a clue what a libertarian is.
Perhaps you might avail yourself of one of ms. rand's tomes on the obligations of libertarians to the state and to their fellow humans.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 10:04:41 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

Yes, it happens every time. When an emergency arises the conservatives and religious right who do not support the redistribution of income and believe in people taking responsibility for themselves are then standing in line to receive federal and state assistance. Again, I support the redistribution of wealth. But for those of you who do NOT support the concept of redistribution of wealth, and vote at every turn to deny OTHERS government assistance, please explain to me WHY exactly YOU are entitled to assistance now. Why is YOUR need any greater than that of anyone else? Why is it when people attack liberals it is about unnecessary "handouts" that conservative don't feel like paying for, but when it is conservatives who are hurt, they require necessary "assistance" and I am expected to pay. I'm happy to pay my taxes to help others. BUT it really bugs me when my tax dollars go to people who actually fight the concept of redistribution at every turn. Happy to get a handout when THEY are the ones in trouble. It's just those OTHER people who shouldn't get handouts. Ah yes, hypocrisy, gotta love it.


That's easy. They paid for it!

No they did not. They pay taxes like everyone else.

Government redistribution of wealth is nothing more than government sponsored insurance, force paid by the people, and doled out by government to whom it decides should receive it.

Like ted turner and bill gates? Why do you oppose the redistribution of wealth when it goes to the poor but do not oppose it when it goes to the not poor?

BUT it really bugs me when my tax dollars go to people who actually fight the concept of redistribution at every turn.

Well it should. On the other hand, should those whom are forced to support what they vehemently disagree with (government redistribution) be denied their claim for coverage (asking for the handout) which they have every right to make because they paid for it? There is no hypocrisy there.

Perhaps you might seek out the definition of hypocrisy.





No they did not. They pay taxes like everyone else.


What part of paid for do you not understand?

No reason to go further. You could not comprehend even that much.


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Liberal Talk Show Host Mocks Tornado Victims - 3/7/2012 10:05:34 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Ms Rand (and her bitchslapped husband) were Objectivists, not Libertarians.
(A lot of halfwits get very assertive about that piddling distinction, like Sheldon and Howard arguing over what sort of cricket a bug in the lift shaft is...)

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Liberal Talk Show Host Mocks Tornado Victims - 3/7/2012 10:05:51 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie



I, as a libertarian







So far you do not seem to have a clue what a libertarian is.
Perhaps you might avail yourself of one of ms. rand's tomes on the obligations of libertarians to the state and to their fellow humans.



Ms. Rand is not the be all end all of libertarianism.

Thank you for playing.

Next.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 10:13:34 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Do people that pay more into road taxes get to drive at a higher speed limit? Anyone who pays certain taxes is free to use the roads equally

And anybody who bitches about paying such taxes should maybe stop using the road, lest they sound like a six year old throwing a temper tantrum.



Who here is bitching about paying any road tax designated for roads and bridges?

Uh oh!!!! Many venues have absconded with those funds for "other social purposes" and now the roads and bridges are in need of repair without the funds necessary.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: In response to Pat Robertson's comments, Liberal Ta... - 3/7/2012 10:13:36 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

You want all of the benefits of living in a Constitutional democracy and a social safety net state, but you don't want to have to pay for any of it.

What an unbelievable sense of entitlement.



Point to where I said anything like what you said (see bolded, and esp. underlined) or STFU.




Wow. You have a really short memory.

ALL government programs are redistribution of funds. Money comes in from a variety of sources, the primary being taxes, and is then redistributed according to the programs and policies that are required. That includes the roads, the Defense Department, the VA, the CDC, education, agribusiness etc. etc. etc.

Do you not understand redistribution?

Oh and here is what you said. Couldn't make it up if I tried.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

No! What you state does not match my beliefs (not feelings; denotes emotion) on redistribution. I don't believe in redistribution at all.





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Profile   Post #: 100
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