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RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 12:56:13 PM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline 		I am in a relationship where he finds me attractive as I am, big or not but if I want to loose weight (which I do and it's dropping slowly) he supports me. I am required to eat decent meals but he doesn't control my diet. That said if he DID require me to loose weight then as my owner it is his right, the same as if he would prefer me blond, with piercings, dressed in long skirts etc etc...

I think a LOT of it is how it is done.

I am fat - I know I am fat, I put on over 50lbs in the past 2 years when I started taking medications and even before that I was a big girl.
I also know I am attractive to many people - often way more than I am to myself.

I have been in relationships where they have said - your fat, diet. That didn't work so well, I ended up insecure and in a circle.
I have been in a relationship where he said "I love you as you are but I think for both our health we could stand to loose a little weight" - that was fine and we tried it together.

There are ways to say things for best effect.

But yes, I admit i am in the camp that I feel in MY M/s relationship if he want's to make alterations it is his perogative. Can does not always mean will, he COULD shave my head but won't, he likes my hair... He could pierce my nose with a massive ring, but wont as he likes my face as it is etc...


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RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 1:00:45 PM   
CRYPTICLXVI


Posts: 3907
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP


Children of smokers are much more likely to smoke.

Nobody like withdrawal symptoms but there are medications that help nicotine addicts quit without going through withdrawal.

Telling your kids they shouldn't be addicts while you are using your drug of choice in front of them is hypocritical and ineffective. It's like telling them not to use drugs while you're shooting up heroin.

You want them to successfully fight the familiar tendency towards addiction, you need to model it yourself.

And yes, 20% of smokers find it easier to give up heroin than nicotine. Still not a reason to use. Or would you agree that a heroin addict who tried quitting a couple of times shouldn't bother trying to get clean again? No difference.



Point taken, and I have been criticized for this as well as many other things... my point is that I have talked to my kids about substance abuse, including cigarettes since they were 6, nobody ever spoke to me about it growing up. They also saw me go through several attempts of quitting. A little background, the withdrawal symptoms themselves were not the issue as much as the flashback of the symptoms I had when quitting drinking and the four months of withdrawal I experienced then. I am not giving a reason to use or an excuse to use, to anyone.

My kids are in their early twenties...and as stated, one socially smokes, one does not. Their decision, did they make their decisions based on my actions? Probably but how they interpreted their decisions were their own. I never claimed to have been either a good parent or a good role model, either to them or to anybody else. I did let them know what my strengths and my weaknesses were. In my opinion, they have grown into strong, loving, honorable and yet flawed adults.



(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 1:02:39 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I have smoked consistently for decades, and I had my first cigarette at age 9. I have a hateful dark spot for those who still hold that cigarettes are a "bad habit". I have "tried" to quit several times and at this point I accept that smoking is a part of me, unless I make some decisions for it not to be. I have an issue when it comes back to w/d...as I stopped drinking twenty plus years ago and the w/d symptoms were quite intense.


This is how M and I approached him wanting to quit smoking: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3972235/tm.htm

(in reply to CRYPTICLXVI)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 1:35:53 PM   
LoreBook


Posts: 257
Joined: 2/22/2012
Status: offline
WARNING
The following post may contain strongly expressed opinions. The author recognises that these are her opinions, based on her definitions and worldview and understands that they may not be applicable to anybody else. It is not the wish or intention of the author to imply in any way that her opinions, definitions, desired dynamic, relationship style, or world view is in any way universally applicabler, or that they constitute the only possible way of approaching the issue.

That's a pretty detailed reply DesFIP, I think I'll take your points one at a time.

First point. This is just sexist garbage. Its not worth considering. As well, you are making an unjustified limiting assumption that the D that wants the weight lost is a man.

Second point. Its unimportant how the s-type feels about any given order, therefore this one isn't worth considering either. You also have laced this one with a healthy helping of misandry (may not be a real word, but it should be), which makes it mostly dismissable. You are also making unwarranted assumptions here as well. The s-type who is supposed to lose weight could be a man. So over all, this point isn't worth considering either.

Third point. There's a lot of merit in this point, but again, you trash it with your dislike of men and gender assumptions, but because this is an important aspect of the question I'll address this point. If, the s-type who has been asked to lose weight has indeed suffered from anorexia in the past, then any attempt at weight lose needs to be closely and strictly monitored by a physician. But, since most of the people starting weight loss threads don't seem to be recovering anorexics, this point hardly justifies the madness that ensues when a D asks their s to lose some weight.

Fourth point. Again the assumption of the genders of the participants and the assumption that the male is an idiot. Unless there is some indication in the OP of a thread, the possibility that the D may be going about the attempt at weight loss wrong is hardly justification for the reaction that is provoked.

So the basic message in your post is that only men ask their s-types to lose weight and that men are clueless idiots who know nothing about losing weight. Oddly enough, when I go to the gym there are at least as many men as women there, working diligently on losing weight. The poor misguided fools.

Another question that is raised by your reply is what about Domme's? Are you suggesting that if LaTigresse asked a submissive of hers to lose weight and that submissive came to the boards to complain/discuss/whatever that order, that there wouldn't be the same outcry as if a man asked for it? That is an interesting possibility, and I'm inclined to think that that might just be the case.

And your last point defining what a "smart" Dominant does, well that just confirms the point I made in my first reply. That for many, submission is only  a form of play-acting, and they require that they be treated with the same care and consideration for their sensibilities and feelings as a vanilla wife or girlfriend would be.

The preceding statement represents the views and opinions of the author and the author alone, and should in no way be considered an attempt by the author to define or determine anything for anybody but herself.

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LLT

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Trying to get an honest answer - 3/6/2012 1:36:52 PM   
RaspberryLemon


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/18/2011
Status: offline 		I think a big part of this is has to do with feeling accepted as you are. Look at it like this: Two people start a relationship together. They each acknowledge that they like who the other is and are fine with who and how they are. Neither of them change in weight, and yet then suddenly one wants the other to change. It's unhealthy to go into a relationship with the intention of changing your partner--if they are unsatisfactory for you as they are now, why get into a relationship with them in the first place? It doesn't make sense. People want to feel accepted, they want to feel satisfactory. To be told you are such (or even to infer it based on the fact that someone started a relationship with you as you are now) and then find out later that you are not, it can be very upsetting.

It's a different story if two people start a relationship and one of them gains or loses weight. It is then totally understandable that the other partner be unsatisfied or disappointed with this, and I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with them thus asking (or requiring) said partner to change so that they resemble the way they looked when they first got together. Of course, it can still be upsetting to the person being asked to gain/lose weight, because as I said above, people want to feel accepted. Even if they know they are now different and unhealthy or becoming unattractive, it can hurt when someone points this out to you, especially if it is someone you desparately want to please. It can be painful to know that they do not view you as "good enough." This doesn't mean that the request/order to gain/lose weight is inappropriate, just that it is understandable for the recipient to be upset about it.

I also find nothing wrong with two people entering the relationship with the agreement and understanding that one will make changes to oneself, as part of their conditions for getting into the relationship. This is a bit of a gray area for some.

And then there is the health issue, which I think peppermint put well:
quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint
A healthy program for losing weight to get down to a healthy weight is great. However, asking a person who has a normal healthy weight to lose to the point of having a model like figure is not healthy. I personally cringe when I hear of a model who is 5'10" and weighs 125 pounds. There is also a small group of D types who want their submissives to gain weight to the point of being unhealthy and obese.

The key word in all this is healthy. I see nothing wrong with a D type requiring (unless it is a hard limit) a submissive to eat properly, exercise, and lose weight if the submissive has extra pounds to lose. I see nothing wrong with a D type asking a submissive to gain a few pounds if the submissive is way too thin according to body type. The goal should be to help the person become a healthy person.


All in all, it's just a sensitive topic for many reasons, some of which I touched on above (there is also as LaTigresse mentioned, society's tendency to place a huge impotance on the issue of weight, so much so that it is hammered into our minds and becomes part of us.)

I can tell you that personally, my Master is well within his rights to ask me to lose or gain weight, as long as he is not requiring me to become unhealthy (this would go against his responsibility to keep my best interest in mind and not damage me physically or otherwise.) I am currently in such a spot that losing a few or gaining a few pounds would not put me in an unhealthy spot as long as it wasn't too much weight.

However. Despite the fact that I believe he is within his rights to do so, I would be quite upset if he asked me to change my weight. I have not changed since we started our relationship, and thus him wanting me to change my weight would crush my self esteem and my trust in him. You see, he has told me he loves how I look, that I am perfect to him. To suddenly change his mind means he was either lying (hence, trust is destroyed) or his preferences have changed and I am no longer "good enough." Neither of those things is a pleasant thought. I would obey and attempt to change for him, but I would feel pretty damn bad about it. No one wants to be less than satisfactory for their Master. Disappointing him, in and of itself, is one of the worst feelings imaginable. That, coupled with the fact that it is a currently an inherent part of my person that is doing the disappointing, is something that would make me feel awful. He hasn't done anything wrong (except if it was the case that he was being less than honest,) and it is his prerogative, but it would still hurt to know I'm not what he wants me to be.

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RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 1:39:14 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your replies, I really appreciate the tone of them all. The dichotomy of giving someone else authority over one's life and still having problems with giving up control over this issue seems strange to me. I realize that tone can mean a great deal and to a degree I do agree that body modification is not something that everyone is comfortable with. The difference in how men and women lose weight does make it harder. I also agree with the idea that if someone doesn't have control over their own life, having them try to control that aspect of someone else's life seems hypocritical.

Thank you again,
heartfelt

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Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

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RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 1:50:29 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Part of what I don't understand is this, who I am as a person is not about what my body looks like, it is who I am inside. What I find most about attractive about a person is who they are inside. I get the idea that if someone's weight hasn't changed at all since the inception of the relationship that that could feel like a betrayal. Over time most of us experience weight changes, so being asked to lose weight in that case makes sense. It also makes sense to me a D type wanting a s type to maintain a certain weight range or look to maintain his or her attractiveness.

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 2:16:23 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoreBook

[gender, gender, gender


This is because all the D mandated weight loss posts we see, including the thread that prompted this one, are about male D's wanting female s's to lose weight.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 2:27:08 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
The dichotomy of giving someone else authority over one's life and still having problems with giving up control over this issue seems strange to me.


Well, part of the issue is that many of those overweight have tried multiple times to lose weight and have not succeeded. It may not be something they can control or know how to control....and therefore can't give the control to D.

It's not always so simple as calories in/calories out, especially for someone that has a lot of weight to lose. I could go on and on about how much the government has fucked up our diets, but that's for another post.


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RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 2:33:46 PM   
jennileigh8182


Posts: 173
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline 		I think it brings about a sense of insecurity. Weight is a huge concern in at least the American society (not sure about other countries) and most expectations are unrealistic. As mentioned, it can also be very, very difficult for some to lose weight. Many subs (at least I, myself) have an rather extreme fear of displeasing....and to be told that their physical form is displeasing, and to know that it may or may not really work to change it, so they're going to keep being displeasing...that'd be soul-crushing. I need to please, I need to know I've pleased. My weight is a slightly touchy subject for me, maybe less so than it is for some, more than it is for others. I used to be smaller, but when my hypothyroidism (gotta love genetics) developed and i got pregnant before that was fully controlled, i gained a fair amount of weight. I was very active, working on my feet training dogs 8-12 hours/day, 5-6 days/week...I ate small meals, healthy snacks, mostly healthy food, drank lots of water, and it didn't come off. After my pregnancy, I started using depo-provera, which is known for making it tough to lose weight, later switched to mirena, but the weight still didn't come off. My hypothyroidism is under control, I'm still very active (now working as a nurse and spending most of my shift running one place or another) and I still try to eat healthy, but it's not coming off. I spoke with my doctor about it last year, he asked in detail about my habits, he ran a battery of physical tests, and his conclusion was that I am perfectly healthy, couldn't possibly be any more healthy even if I was 50lbs lighter, so he was inclined to believe that my body was content to be the way it is and he's not worried about it. Not a single lab value came back out of line, my flexibility is amazing, my strength is good, it's just that I'm carrying more weight than is ideal. Also...I am naturally VERY heavy-breasted (see the breast thread! - DDD). When I was thinner, my breasts were only one size smaller (DD) and I had constant, excruciating back aches. At my current size, I have none. My body is more balanced and I no longer have the agonizing pain from carting around the girls on a frame too small for them.


Let me add....this idea that it's unimportant what the sub thinks is utter idiocy. A quality dom cares about the total health of his sub, physical and mental, and while he may push limits or command things she's not always happy with, he goes into that knowing what the impact of his decision is going to be and knowing there may be some emotional care to be taken afterwards. Any dom that consistently disregards his sub's thoughts/feelings is less a dom and more a domineering asshole.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 3:04:51 PM   
areallivehuman


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/16/2010
Status: offline 		FR


If you want to have your submissive lose weight, first, learn how. Then teach it to her. This may involve some work,

(in reply to jennileigh8182)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 3:09:25 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
The dichotomy of giving someone else authority over one's life and still having problems with giving up control over this issue seems strange to me.


How many women do you know who have tried to lose weight and can't? Yo yo dieting? Lose some on Weight Watchers and the moment they stop, gain it all back?

You are presuming they gained weight deliberately while in control of gaining. That assumption is incorrect.

If you don't have control of this to begin with, then you can't hand it over.

It's like him being upset that you aren't giving over control of your investments when you don't have any to hand over.

If you want to take control, the person has to have it to hand it over and the person taking it needs to be able to accomplish it. Otherwise, it's like ordering you to flap your arms and then punishing you because you aren't flying like a bird.


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RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 3:13:06 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, shit on a stump, grab a branch, do something like a bird girlie!!!!  Goddamn!! Do I have to do every fucking thing around here? 

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RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 3:13:23 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Oh, and Cryptic? Nobody who knows anything about nicotine addiction would dismiss it by referring to it as a bad habit. It isn't. Anyone who says that is a twit.

What it is, is a pediatric disease. I don't know of anyone who decided to willing start smoking at age 43. Always it is started as a minor, when it latches on in the brain more strongly than it could in an adult brain.


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Trying to get an honest answer - 3/6/2012 3:22:16 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		My Master does not mandate weight loss.
When I was on a medication that initially caused loss of appetite and weight loss His main concern was that I was still eating in a manner that was balanced and healthy.

Now that I am on a medication that makes me want to eat all the time, His concern is the same: that I eat enough vegetables and fruit and basically follow a balanced diet.

His concern would never be about weight itself but of health.

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(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 3:23:32 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Oh, and Cryptic? Nobody who knows anything about nicotine addiction would dismiss it by referring to it as a bad habit. It isn't. Anyone who says that is a twit.


I once overheard someone at an NA meeting say that quitting smoking was harder than quitting heroin.


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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 3:27:24 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Thank you Oside for your reply. May I ask what is wrong with wanting a hotter girl? That is part of what I don't understand. If the person really does need to lose weight, what is wrong with wanting someone that you find more sexually attractive. And with the D/s dynamic, although a Dominant may need to lose weight, doesn't the dynamic mean that the D can give direction to the s type that doesn't flow the other way.

Thank you again for your reply.

heartfelt

We all need to understand, it is not about just losing weight or being skinny. It is all about being healthy. The rest is conversation, too often drama or an insecurity coming through from those who suggest their mate, must lose weight for appearances. I had to get 'healthy' before I got in shape because it was going to be too much work for my system...at my age.

Physiologically, carrying extra body fat shortens life as it causes more work for cardio/pulmonary systems. Plus, as I constantly try to inform my folks, you are carrying around a 30-40-50 lb. bag of 'mud' around...that you just don't need. That puts pressure on your whole system that your system simply does not need.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 3/6/2012 3:30:12 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 3:30:00 PM   
LoreBook


Posts: 257
Joined: 2/22/2012
Status: offline
quote:

This is because all the D mandated weight loss posts we see, including the thread that prompted this one, are about male D's wanting female s's to lose weight.
In that case, since not everybody who reads these threads has been doing so for years, don't you think she should have prefaced her statement with something along the lines of "Since almost all the weight loss threads involve male Doms wanting their female subs to lose weight, I would say.....". Rather than just present her ideas as universally applicable to all possible weight loss scenarios?

I'm surprised you didn't offer her some tips on the proper way to post.

The preceding statement represents the views and opinions of the author and the author alone, and should in no way be considered an attempt by the author to define or determine anything for anybody but herself.



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LLT

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Trying to get an honest answer about D mandated wei... - 3/6/2012 3:32:45 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		The part about not having control makes it impossible to give that control to someone else makes a great deal of sense. In my own case, although I am finally now the average size I still am working on losing weight. But it is something that I do have control over, if it were medically different, that would be a different situation.

Thanks again for the replies.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Trying to get an honest answer - 3/6/2012 3:40:13 PM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

know what I am about to ask will be a touchy subject, but I am honestly trying to get an honest answer as to why it is such a touchy subject and as I want the opinion of both D types and s types, this seemed like the best place to post this. Why whenver anyone posts about a D type trying to get his s type to lose weight does it become a vitriolic free for all. I don't understand it. To me, my body is not me, it is what I carry me (who I really am as a person) around in and although I don't like it much if someone says that I need to lose weight (which I do and am doing) I don't see it as a slam against who I am as a person, but rather a commentary on what my body looks like. I don't know if this makes any sense. With the way that I view D/s or M/s asking an s type to lose weight would be part of what is allowed in the dynamic. So I am trying to figure out why any time that subject gets touched on fur seems to fly.

Thanks in advance for your replies. It would be nice if they were pleasant ones (smiling)

heartfelt


heartfelt,

Here is an honest answer.....although subjective and any reply will be.

Fur need not fly over the issue. Simply put your Dom states what he wants in his/her submissive. If you feel you need to reduce let your "D" know what weight you want for yourself. If there is agreement..game on.....if not time to go your own way.

CP

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 40
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