RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist?

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RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 3/19/2012 8:55:55 AM

MrBukani

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To explain why I dont really like totally fluid meanings to words, cause it is exactly what politicians do, to put a veil over the truth.
And mind you also bdsm meanings for words will end up in regular dictionaries eventually.
You can tell me all you like, but to me it makes no sense turning words upside down, except when you have alterior motives to do so.
Like politicians , journalists and so on.
The difference of opinions is in the sentences you make, not the words perse.
pfffiwuew now thats of my chest, I can start caring less.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 101

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 3/19/2012 9:25:24 AM

JeffBC

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To explain why I dont really like totally fluid meanings to words
Don't get me wrong. I dislike the status quo also. But that doesn't change the reality. And for me, the reality is that I generally have no idea what most of the words mean when someone uses them. So I'll bite. Please give me an example of a word where you think you have the proper right-side-up definition and others have turned it upside down -- remembering when you do so that this is a global internet forum so local definitions may or may not be applicable.

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(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 102

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 3/19/2012 9:34:29 AM

MrBukani

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I think you are classy and stylish.
Thats slang.
In a regular discussion it means style in music for example we are talkin about blues or rock
And class as in wich class you are high or low Like jimi hendrix is of topclass in guitarplay and choose any runt to say he's got little skill for guitarplay.

Thats simple regular difference so you can classify something.

I could do the same for bdsm but it is more fluid to the slang bits.
I read the other thread a bit as well
Thanks for the link.
Its off topic anyway But there it is simple and straight something we could all agree with and it makes discussions much more direct.
Cause in the end its not the definitions that matter most its what we do with it in context.
Thats what I mean.
I hope thats clear enough and maybe people can gain some advantage of it.

PS dont get me wrong that I hate slang, it can enrich emotional expression.
and I used music as an easy example of course.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 3/19/2012 9:41:55 AM >

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RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 3/19/2012 10:34:35 AM

IrishMist

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You sure are high maintance

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Post #: 104

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 4/13/2012 3:15:44 PM

knows

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Yes, it exists and I use to be awesome at it. I now have a Master that has put an end to that. Not only does he not tolerate it, but I have no desire to do so and catch myself before it starts.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 105

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 4/13/2012 4:09:16 PM

Bucephalus

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Being new to the D/s relationship with my sub/boyfriend, I sometimes feel like he might be trying to top from the bottom from time to time, but, he can be stubborn and a smartass. (I'd get bored if he ended up being a mindless doll) I'm still figuring out when exactly he does this, and how best to handle it. Im going to chalk my failings on handling it better to my inexperience, and not a lack of dominance on my part. I have it, I just need to figure out how best to use it. If that makes in sense what so ever?

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 106

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 4/14/2012 12:39:30 AM

another1harder

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Sadist ties masochist
Waiting, masochist asks sadist "Are you going to whip me?"
Sadist replies "Maybe"

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Post #: 107

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/14/2014 3:17:13 PM

DSWMISOU

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Thank you for your articulate, well defined explanation (that is in concert with my own) that decisively serves, not a deal-breaker, as a rational second opinion for my eager, pleasing, polite, obedient young female sub who does strive to learn and to be guided but often requires clarity that your provided.

(in reply to Alecta)

Post #: 108

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/15/2014 1:24:35 PM

Ravensnake

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Yes, it exists. Done it more than once. Obviously there are many aspects to a master slave relationship but the bottom line for me that underlines it is that, from my perspective, if I can top a master, I don't want him.

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RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/15/2014 3:57:29 PM

cloudboy

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It's all about semantics, isn't it? This question can sit right next to: "Do real slaves actually exist?"

The IRONY of BDSM is that subs and slaves are actually quite empowered and simply allow their partners to lead. One could argue that "dominance" is nothing more than an illusion.

These type of questions are really about biases. Back in the day the OP started a thread, "what do you think about cheaters." In that case the question predetermined the answers.

The question is, how do we judge "negative" behaviors. In relationships, it is very difficult to give global answers.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/15/2014 4:28:10 PM >

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Post #: 110

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/15/2014 4:23:44 PM

pg4g

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Is it just me wondering how a bottom would encourage a top to do what he wants without in a sense topping from the bottom? What if the top needed subtle encouragement to do what he wants and stop holding back if it's clear that they're conflicted about making the bottom do/take/endure what the top wants? And would it be wrong in this sense?

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 111

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/15/2014 5:06:22 PM

mummyman321

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Does topping from the bottom exist?
Absolutely! I have been known to do it on occasion. Sometimes to see if I can. Sometime to get what I want. Does it mean my Domme is not really a Domme? No, maybe she let me get away with it because she was being nice. Maybe I snuck one in on her. But if we both had a good time, does it really matter. I am sure some strict dominant maybe having a stroke over that statement but all I can say is lighten up and enjoy life :)

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Post #: 112

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/15/2014 5:10:33 PM

LadyConstanze

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But it is so much fun letting somebody get away with it for a bit, then calling them out on it, the look on the poor subbies face is priceless, a bit like catching the dogs rading the cat food "I uhhh, err, hmmm, it's not what you think it is..."

How's Germany treating you?

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Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to mummyman321)

Post #: 113

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/15/2014 5:32:32 PM

mummyman321

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

But it is so much fun letting somebody get away with it for a bit, then calling them out on it, the look on the poor subbies face is priceless, a bit like catching the dogs rading the cat food "I uhhh, err, hmmm, it's not what you think it is..."

How's Germany treating you?

Ah yes, the puppy dog look of getting caught. I do it well :)

Germany has been just awesome. I went home for the holidays recently to see Dad but back now. I have been here for a little over a year now. Its really has been a lot of work and a lot of fun. I think that hardest part was the first 9 months with the language. Now I know enough German to be dangerous :)

_____________________________

Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

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Post #: 114

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/15/2014 7:14:14 PM

CreativeDominant

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Surprised me to see this old thread resurrected.

My feelings have not changed...topping from the bottom can exist. Those submissives who say that you cannot top a "real" master/dominant/mistress from the bottom are using the statement to cover their own fault.
Bottoming from the top can exist. Those dominants who say that you cannot bottom to a "real" submissive...like their counterparts on the "s" side...use the statement to cover their own fault.

Someone noted on here that much of D/s is illusory in that the submissive always retains the control to say "no" (and all the variations that go with that). When stripped of everything but the legalities, that is true. Given that, I believe that once negotiation/compromise have taken place, then each party owes it to the other to do as agreed. Revisiting the negotiations are (or should be) a given, especially as two people grow used to each other. We all like to push our partner's buttons a bit...BUT...if you seem to be seeking too much too often as a submissive or letting go of too much too many times as a dominant, perhaps you are not right for each other. If you find yourself doing that with each partner, perhaps it is time to look inside yourself more closely...are you a masochistic top? Are you a sadistic bottom? Are you a carefree top? A control-freak bottom?

(in reply to mummyman321)

Post #: 115

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/15/2014 10:26:31 PM

FieryOpal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I was not at all speaking of force play, or funishment, or anything like that. (How was that not clear?) I am talking about someone who consistently disobeys (within the context of a BDSM lifestyle relationship) b/c at heart they are not that obedient.

Which TO ME, is at the very heart of submission. If you can't be obedient when I want you to be, you are useless to me.

And yes, AGAIN I talking of an actual lifestyle relationship, not a particular session.

So, to coalesce all these thoughts after having read other's input (and ty BTW).

For me, topping from the bottom is consistently pushing that obedience boundary far past where the dominant wants it to go. With the understanding that boundary will vary drastically couple to couple

This needs more thought on my part, but I'm inclined to view disobedience as being disobedient, which falls under the category of qualifying for disciplinary action.

Topping from the bottom is more of a form of manipulation (which could entail disobeying or exhibiting passive-aggressive behavior) by the sub to get his/her way, knowing full well that s/he is being willful. Not to be confused with respectfully asserting or standing up for oneself, which is a submissive's (anybody's) right.

This made me smile:

quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

Does topping from the bottom exist?
Absolutely! I have been known to do it on occasion. Sometimes to see if I can. Sometime to get what I want. Does it mean my Domme is not really a Domme? No, maybe she let me get away with it because she was being nice. Maybe I snuck one in on her. But if we both had a good time, does it really matter. I am sure some strict dominant maybe having a stroke over that statement but all I can say is lighten up and enjoy life :)

For me, Topping from the bottom is unnecessary, and under normal circumstances, I won't tolerate it. I like having a begging dynamic with my sub, so he can pretty much ask for whatever he wants (doesn't mean he'll get it) by begging for it. This gives him a tool at his disposal to curry favor with me, which I then weigh in what sorts of privileges he may have earned just by being his sweet, old submissive self in good standing. This also gives me a way to reward him if I feel like it, without looking like a pushover (hence un-Dommely). I don't employ begging in a begging-not-to capacity (unless it's for our mutual amusement during play, as in mock-begging); it's used as a begging-for.

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(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 116

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/16/2014 6:37:16 AM

AlexisANew

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There are different levels of submission and different levels of dominance. If a submissive fools around deliberately, most would call him/her a bottom or a brat and the dominant a top. Sometimes its nothing more than a little fun thrown in to a full on D/s type relationship.

I quite enjoy a sub getting a little toppy 'sometimes'. Letting them think they are getting away with something. The sudden realization that they haven't got away with anything gives me very satisfied pay back.

Early on in a relationship there seems to be a lot of, 'living up to one anothers expectations'. If the dominant can't live up to the submissives expectations or if there is doubt in the submissives mind that 'this' dominant has perhaps bitten off more than he/she can handle, we often see topping type behaviour from the sub. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. The submissive has every right to push his boundaries and find a result if she/he is indeed unsure about his ability to lead. Submission doesn't come ready made in the bag to just anyone with a dominant title.

< Message edited by AlexisANew -- 2/16/2014 6:38:27 AM >

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 117

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/16/2014 7:00:30 AM

catize

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~~fast reply~~

I haven't read all 7 pages here, so someone may have already said this. If one is in a top/bottom relationship, then it is acceptable to ''top from the bottom" ie: "hiit me with that thing again and I will smack ya!"
I don't like manipulation from either side; if I can't ask outright, if my dominant can't ask/tell me outright, then I think we need to work on communication.

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(in reply to AlexisANew)

Post #: 118

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/16/2014 7:00:55 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexisANew

There are different levels of submission and different levels of dominance. If a submissive fools around deliberately, most would call him/her a bottom or a brat and the dominant a top. Sometimes its nothing more than a little fun thrown in to a full on D/s type relationship.

I quite enjoy a sub getting a little toppy 'sometimes'. Letting them think they are getting away with something. The sudden realization that they haven't got away with anything gives me very satisfied pay back.

Early on in a relationship there seems to be a lot of, 'living up to one anothers expectations'. If the dominant can't live up to the submissives expectations or if there is doubt in the submissives mind that 'this' dominant has perhaps bitten off more than he/she can handle, we often see topping type behaviour from the sub. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. The submissive has every right to push his boundaries and find a result if she/he is indeed unsure about his ability to lead. Submission doesn't come ready made in the bag to just anyone with a dominant title.

I can understand your point of view on this, to a certain point. But at some point in this submissive's wonderings and pushings, I would have to ask "should you have sorted this out perhaps a bit better before you agreed to submit under terms you both agreed to"? For you have to also admit, Alexis...there are those submissives who agree and then look for find ways to not submit and that it comes from somewhere within them, not any fault of the dominant. That does not place the onus on all submissives...there are dominants out there who do a good dog and pony show but who end up not quite stepping up to the plate on every ball pitched (God...could I use any more cliches?

). But to say that every submissive who tries to top always and only does so through some fault of the dominant is taking away some of their responsibility as a human involved in a partnership.

(in reply to AlexisANew)

Post #: 119

RE: Topping from the Bottom - Does it exist? - 2/16/2014 7:15:49 AM

AlexisANew

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I can understand your point of view on this, to a certain point. But at some point in this submissive's wonderings and pushings, I would have to ask "should you have sorted this out perhaps a bit better before you agreed to submit under terms you both agreed to"? For you have to also admit, Alexis...there are those submissives who agree and then look for find ways to not submit and that it comes from somewhere within them, not any fault of the dominant. That does not place the onus on all submissives...there are dominants out there who do a good dog and pony show but who end up not quite stepping up to the plate on every ball pitched (God...could I use any more cliches? ). But to say that every submissive who tries to top always and only does so through some fault of the dominant is taking away some of their responsibility as a human involved in a partnership.

Good point CreativeDominant but relationships evolve differently. Not everyone sits down and gets everything right before dominating or submitting. Call it impulse, call it being inspired, whatever it is, some submissives start to submit sooner than perhaps they should. Someone going through sub frenzy is a good example of the above. They aren't sure what they are looking for or what being dominated 'really' feels like but they are often all too eager to give it a go without further ado!

What I absolutely didn't say was, 'every submissive who tries to top always and only does so through some fault of the dominant'. I suggested that this can sometimes happen.

What I don't get is, why would a submissive take the time to find a dominant partner and then fool around in an unsubmissive fashion. Would they be doing that for a bit of a laugh? aren't they really submissive at all? I don't understand what's in it for them?

< Message edited by AlexisANew -- 2/16/2014 7:19:34 AM >

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 120

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