RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (Full Version)

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tweakabelle -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/13/2012 8:21:29 PM)

quote:

so stop equating FREE birth control to a "women's health" issue.


Excuse me???? Birth control is not a health issue? I hope you're not suggesting it's a transport issue, or a foreign policy issue. Or is it related to the price of heating oil perhaps.

Presumably your objection is based on some variation of a "user pays" argument. Which is absurd of course. Is there any demand that only cancer patients pay for cancer medicine?

Birth control is a health issue. If you wish to object to the economics of how it is funded, then you're objecting to the whole principle of insurance - spreading risk so that individual risk doesn't become devastating. In which case your argument, such as it is, is with the whole health care insurance industry, not with an individual matter of women's health.

However that is thinking about the matter rationally, and therefore most unlikely to meet with approval, or be accepted by the looney Right. Most of the time, I find the sheer stupidity of of the American far/ultra/looney Right jaw dropping. On this issue, it is so mind bogglingly ignorant and cretinous that my brain wants to refuse to believe what my eyes are reading




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/13/2012 9:53:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

...so stop equating FREE birth control to a "women's health" issue.  It's not.  If it were, then at puberty, EVERY girl/woman on the planet would begin taking birth control to be "healthy" -- and would do so for the remainder of her life.  Hint:  This doesn't happen... why do you think that is?!!  Because, logically, it's NOT a "women's health issue"!!!  For some, yes... for the vast majority, no!!!



Birth control is not a health issue?



For the vast majority, NO!!!  See the FULL quote above, not the snipid you'd posted.  The Loony-Left are pretending birth control is like some magic vitamin that ALL women must take in order to be "healthy".  Nothing more than a flat out LIE by the Left to get FREE birth control.

Should it be covered on one's health plan?  YES.  Should it be FREE?  NO... despite the mind bogglingly ignorant Left's LIES to try and brand it a "health" issue, when it's not -- for the vast majority.  For some, however, it is.  So cough up your co-pay (which is what... a whopping $10 or $20 per month?!!) just like most do for their scrips.

Disagree?  Fine... your disagreement is noted, as is your entitlement line of thinking. [8|]





PeonForHer -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/13/2012 10:02:02 PM)

I . . .

[:D]

No. I'm going to bed.




Edwynn -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/13/2012 11:01:56 PM)


Had your fill of being amazed at such quantity of mouth foam, have you then?

Ripley's-worthy, no question.






Iamsemisweet -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 7:48:48 AM)

Wow MSLA. Have you considered a different hobby?




kalikshama -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 8:28:33 AM)

quote:

So cough up your co-pay (which is what... a whopping $10 or $20 per month?!!) just like most do for their scrips.


Starting August 2012, no copays for preventative care...contraception is preventative care.

PPACA Standards For Coverage Of Preventive Care Extended To Contraceptives

On Monday, August 1, 2011, the Obama administration announced new guidelines that require health care plans to cover certain women’s preventive services, including birth control and voluntary sterilization. The action taken by the United States Department of Health and Human Services (the “HHS”) adopts recommendations made by the Institute of Medicine, which recently issued a report dealing with a review of women’s health needs. In that report, the Institute of Medicine concluded that contraceptive coverage was justified because nearly half of all pregnancies in the United States are unintended and a significant percentage of these pregnancies lead to abortions. Thus, it asserted that greater use of contraception would reduce the rates of unintended pregnancy and abortion. The new requirements apply to health coverage in years starting on or after August 1, 2012, and thus will take effect on January 1, 2013 for calendar year plans. Grandfathered plans are not subject to the preventive care standards and thus do not have to comply with these new standards.

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (“PPACA”) requires health care plans to cover certain preventive services on a first dollar basis without any cost-sharing requirements (e.g., co-payment, co-insurance and/or deductible requirements). In 2010, HHS (working in conjunction with other involved agencies) issued interim final regulations providing guidance on the services subject to this requirement. Four categories of preventive health care coverage were made subject to these requirements, including (i) evidence-based services that have in effect a rating of “A” or “B” in the current recommendations of the United States Preventive Services Task Force (examples include high blood pressure, diabetes and cholesterol screenings); (ii) routine immunizations for children, adolescents and adults that currently are recommended by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; (iii) evidence-based preventive care and screenings for infants, children and adolescents provided for under guidelines supported by the Health Resources and Services Administration (“HRSA”); and (iv) evidence-based preventive care and screenings for women provided for under guidelines supported by the HRSA.

The HRSA women’s health guidelines, which were not issued when the interim final regulations were published, were issued on August 1, 2011. These new guidelines, which are not limited to contraceptives, are intended to address health care needs unique to women. The guidelines include the following services and screenings: (i) annual well-women visits to seek age and developmentally appropriate preventive services, including preconception and pre-natal care and other preventives services; (ii) all FDA-approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures and patient education and counseling;(iii) screening for gestational diabetes with pregnant women; (iv) human papillomavirus testing, beginning at age 30 (not more frequently than every 3 years); (v) annual counseling for sexually transmitted infections; (vi) annual counseling and screening for human immunodeficiency virus; (vii) breastfeeding support, supplies and counseling; and (viii) annual screening and counseling for domestic violence.




erieangel -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 9:02:14 AM)

Personal opinion, all co-payments should be done away with. I already pay for insurance, why should I have to pay again when I go to the doctor or get a scrip filled?? Co-pays are why I had to go off my psych medications--I couldn't afford them. The psych meds aren't the only medications I take and the others are vastly more important to my overall health.





MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 12:17:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet



No... showing the stupidity and entitlement-thinking of the Lib-Rats is enough a hobby to keep me sufficiently entertained. [8|]





slvemike4u -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 12:19:20 PM)

When will you start ?




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 12:24:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama


Do try to keep your eye on the ball, will you?!! You can post the same nonsense a hundred times, and it STILL has ZERO... ZILCH... NADA... to do with anyone DESERVING to get their birth control for FREE.  Got that?!!  I don't give a shit what O'FuckupCare states, birth control, for the PURE PURPOSE of "birth control" isn't a "health issue", and the financial burden shouldn't be placed on others -- not when people with ACTUAL health issues still have to fork-up a co-pay for THEIR meds.  Clear enough for you, or do you need pictures?!! [8|] 





MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 12:25:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


Showing their stupidity does not guarantee they can understand it... clearly.








slvemike4u -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 12:36:54 PM)

Yeah,I have noticed some stupidity too [8|]




Raiikun -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 12:44:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

Pregnancy and childbirth and the raising of children all present healthcare issues of the most basic, important kind.

Therefore, prevention of pregnancy is ABSOLUTELY a health concern.

PERIOD. END OF STORY.


Diet and Nutrition are arguably as important, if not more, of a health concern...so why isn't food covered in our health insurance plans? ;)

Now that the snark is largely out of the way:

quote:

People can debate about whether or not they want to cover contraception in their health care plan.

But one argument that cannot be used is that contraception has nothing to do with health. That is wrong.


This much I agree with.

quote:



People can debate about whether or not they want to cover contraception in their health care plan.

And if no one can offer a valid reason, then I think it is reasonable to view the carve out as anti-woman.


Any opinions I have on contraception being covered by insurance also apply to things like Viagra, so I think that should take care of the "anti-woman" part, for me anyways.


quote:

I have yet to see someone offer up a valid reason for why contraception, in particular, should be carved out, as opposed to any other given thing. I can think of many things off the top of my head that cost much, much more. Again, why should those be covered, but not this? I have yet to see someone give a coherent answer to that.


My view on insurance is that it's purpose is as a risk management tool to cover unexpected expenses. The nature of how insurance works means that a lot of people will be spending more into it than they use, in exchange for the security of knowing that if they need it, it's there.

Add to that, nothing is really free. Those contraceptives have to be paid for by someone. And since it's more of a planned expense rather than an unexpected one, the cost for it has to be included in the premiums, which leads to more expensive insurance for those who will never need it.

Now if it's in a specific case where it's being used as treatment, that's a different story. But just a blanket coverage of things like contraceptives and viagra to me isn't much different than expecting auto insurance to cover oil changes, or expecting home owner's insurance to cover the heating bill.


Now if an insurance company *wants* to include contraceptive costs, adjusting the insurance premiums to cover it; that should be their right. And it should be the right of the consumer to pick the insurance company based on cost vs. what they offer, in an ideal world. But I have an issue with government stepping in and mandating that it *has* to be covered.




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 12:59:20 PM)

 
I've noticed more... just a moment ago, in fact.  [8|]





slvemike4u -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 1:04:25 PM)

I ,naturally,bow to you on the subject of stupidity...you being so much more familiar with it [:)]




BitaTruble -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 1:17:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


Diet and Nutrition are arguably as important, if not more, of a health concern...so why isn't food covered in our health insurance plans? ;)


You can grow your own food. You can't grow your own birth control pills. You need a doctor for the scrip and you need to be monitored (often requiring several trips to the doctor) to make sure you are getting the right mix and level of hormones.



quote:

My view on insurance is that it's purpose is as a risk management tool to cover unexpected expenses. The nature of how insurance works means that a lot of people will be spending more into it than they use, in exchange for the security of knowing that if they need it, it's there.


Preventative measures saves buku $. (Small pox vacations for example). Maintaining wellness is as important as being able to cover unexpected expenses. BCP's save tax payers money. I don't get why some people don't get that.





Raiikun -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 1:36:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
You can grow your own food.


Which requires a time and money expense...that doesn't really dispute my point.


quote:

Preventative measures saves buku $. (Small pox vacations for example). Maintaining wellness is as important as being able to cover unexpected expenses. BCP's save tax payers money. I don't get why some people don't get that.



Which is part of why I'm not against insurance companies offering it as an option for those who want to pay the premiums for them. As said, in an ideal world, insurance companies would be allowed to offer plans with both contraceptive coverage and plans without, and consumers would be able to choose what plan suits them.




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 1:47:00 PM)

 
Yes, thanks to so many stupid Lib-Rats, I've been able to sharpen that skill-set to a fine point. [:D]



[image]local://upfiles/687741/6B68A06B5AC44D939BC34C595F79F6C0.jpg[/image]




tazzygirl -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 2:12:40 PM)

quote:

Which is part of why I'm not against insurance companies offering it as an option for those who want to pay the premiums for them. As said, in an ideal world, insurance companies would be allowed to offer plans with both contraceptive coverage and plans without, and consumers would be able to choose what plan suits them


Sounds like you are in agreement to allow insurance companies to cover who and what they please.




Raiikun -> RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women (3/14/2012 2:15:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Sounds like you are in agreement to allow insurance companies to cover who and what they please.



That's not remotely what I said.




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