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juliaoceania -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 5:56:29 PM)

Level, I do not hate anyone in the world. If someone deserved my hatred I would still not give it to them.. that would be giving that person too much power over my emotional state. I can hate everything they stand for, but, alas I am not a hater of individuals... not even individuals that feed our troops to conflicts that we should not be in like so much raw meat. I hate THAT,  but not the little man that sent them there.. and he is a little man with smaller mind. That is my observation about him, I do not say this with hate, I say this because I cannot imagine lying to the American people to get them to send their kids into harms way for his oil buddies....Stating what the media has been reporting on is NOT hateful, it is just supporting an opinion.



darq -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 6:00:05 PM)

I agree with this choice ... I'm against gay marriage. I also voted for Bush... Both times.



MsMacComb -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 6:24:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darq

I agree with this choice ... I'm against gay marriage. I also voted for Bush... Both times.
 

Something to consider while you are bragging about voting for the worst president of all time and the most hated man in the world, if they are successful in their persecution of gays, you will be next. In fact you already are. There has been a concerted effort since the beginning of Bushocracy to suppress anything sexual beyond that which subscribes to their version if what is biblical. Where it up to them (and with your support it may well be) this site, all adult websites, B/S S/M, kink and any form of sexual acts not designed for reproductive purposes would be outlawed. Sodomy laws do still exist in many states as do cohabitation laws which would increase in other states and in the level of arrests made for such. So if/when the sex police, storm troopers, goose stepping Bushsquads kick in your door to see if you are giving a blow job, you will ahve no one to thank but yourself. Think it cant happen? BushCo has broken every other law theyve come across and rewritten the rest to suit their agenda to make the USA a theocracy.



Chaingang -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 6:32:07 PM)

It is perfectly rational to be intolerant of intolerance. It's more a matter of visiting upon some people that which they would otherwise visit upon others - I just reflect their own bullshit back at them. So someone that preaches intolerance and wants to reestablish bigotry in our Constitution deserves nothing but the intolerance and contempt he apparently supports. If he didn't do it, I wouldn't reflect it back at him. I really can't think of a more perfect punishment. Is justice not served by this kind of mirror? Present me with something despicable and I will despise it. In a more perfect world, this would be quite hard to do. In the world we are in jackasses like Bush seem to always find a way to put themselves in front of the "justice mirror."

If this thing amends the Constitution, it's going to make that incident in Laramie Wyoming seem justified. After all, if gays don't have basic rights - they must be subhuman, right? This kind of crap begins with stuff like this.

I'm supposed to think he's not a bad man even though his religious views breed intolerance and hatred? Give me a fucking break...!

Generally, I despise the religions of Jews and Christians. Why you ask - aren't I Mr. Preach Tolerance? Nope, I said I was a mirror. Now go read the "Book of the Conquest" or "Joshua" - at the heart of those faiths is the fundamental myth of genocide. Joshua entered the "Promised Land" and killed everyone that was already there.

---

6:21
And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

...

10:30
And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho.

10:31
And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it:

10:32
And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah.

10:33
Then Horam king of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua smote him and his people, until he had left him none remaining.

10:34
And from Lachish Joshua passed unto Eglon, and all Israel with him; and they encamped against it, and fought against it:

10:35
And they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day, according to all that he had done to Lachish.

10:36
And Joshua went up from Eglon, and all Israel with him, unto Hebron; and they fought against it:

10:37
And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein.

10:38
And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to Debir; and fought against it:

10:39
And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining: as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king.

10:40
So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.

10:41
And Joshua smote them from Kadeshbarnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon.

10:42
And all these kings and their land did Joshua take at one time, because the LORD God of Israel fought for Israel.

10:43
And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, unto the camp to Gilgal.

---

You know what? I just can't bring myself to respect that myth. Those that call it a part of their faith system seem immediately suspect to me.

Sorry.



Chaingang -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 6:34:12 PM)

And Darq makes my block list. Very nice.



Level -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 6:34:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Level, I do not hate anyone in the world. If someone deserved my hatred I would still not give it to them.. that would be giving that person too much power over my emotional state. I can hate everything they stand for, but, alas I am not a hater of individuals... not even individuals that feed our troops to conflicts that we should not be in like so much raw meat. I hate THAT,  but not the little man that sent them there.. and he is a little man with smaller mind. That is my observation about him, I do not say this with hate, I say this because I cannot imagine lying to the American people to get them to send their kids into harms way for his oil buddies....Stating what the media has been reporting on is NOT hateful, it is just supporting an opinion.



Then why is it such an impossibility that Bush could "hate the sin, but love the sinner", which in fact he has stated is his stance on homosexuality?
 
I'm not asking anyone to agree with Bush on his policy, but I find it troubling that closed-mindedness and hatred (I'll accept your statement that you don't hate him, julia) are aimed at another. The very name of this thread tells you something.....

"Q: What is your position on gay marriage?
 
BUSH: I’m not for gay marriage. I think marriage is a sacred institution between a man and a woman. I appreciated the way the administration signed the Defense of Marriage Act. I presume the vice president supported it.
 
GORE: I agree with that, and I did support that law. But I think that we should find a way to allow some kind of civic unions. And I basically agree with Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman, and I think the three of us have one view and the governor has another view.
 
BUSH: I’m not sure what kind of view he’s ascribing to me. One day he says he agrees with me, then he says he doesn’t. I will be a tolerant person. I’ve been a tolerant person all my life. I just happen to believe strongly that marriage is between a man and a woman. I don’t really think it’s any of my concern how you conduct your sex life. That’s a private matter. I support equal rights but not special rights for people. "
 
 
"Bush is the first Republican president to appoint an openly gay man (Israel Hernandez, assistant secretary at the Department of Commerce) to his administration[98]."



Chaingang -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 6:40:12 PM)

I am not a pacifist Level. I may not start a fight but I know how to finish one and not hide behind equivocations about what is obviously the case.

The deeds of Bushco speak louder than any empty rhetoric.



Alumbrado -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 6:41:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

.....If I am to understand you, Bush nor Cheney hate gays because Cheney's daughter is gay, but they use this hatred to win elections... and I am supposed to admire this man??? That makes him reprehensible ... although it isnt like he lost my support for furthering hatred, he never had it


It does make him reprehensible...and it also makes him like every other politician who ever won an election through fear mongering...which is pretty much all of them.

These asinine 'amendments' get fed to the media with great regularity to mobilize the faithful against 'them'.

When politicians no longer get the expected reactions to their standard tactics, will be the point in time at which they desperately search around for a different approach.... like maybe nominating someone who can lead. 



Level -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 6:43:18 PM)

All of our deeds speak volumes, Chaingang. I agree on that.



juliaoceania -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 7:08:27 PM)

I did not name the thread Level, I merely posted on it. Saying that, I am also not a politician who thinks that he can legislate morality for the rest of us for his constituency. I do not care to read Bush, although it is better than actually listening to him. This gay marriage thing is about shoring up the base for midterm elections because basically Bush is an unpopular lame duck and the only ones supporting him still are those who went to Bob Jones or follow Pat Robertson, or those who will profit from this assnine war. Members of the GOP that are moderate are turned off by this sort of hatefilled crap coming from the Religious Right.

I have never advocated taking anyone's rights or giving them rights based upon my emotional states level.So even though I hate war I have never advocated denying vets their benefits for example... Those hating homosexuality want to deny gay people rights based upon their "beliefs".. I see this as a big difference between myself and Bush... all the difference as a matter of fact.



popeye1250 -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 7:20:41 PM)

I don't agree with gay "marriage" but I REALLY don't care for George Bush either.



Level -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 7:28:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I did not name the thread Level, I merely posted on it.

I know that, and I apologize if I made it look otherwise, it's not what I intended.

I have never advocated taking anyone's rights or giving them rights based upon my emotional states level.So even though I hate war I have never advocated denying vets their benefits for example... Those hating homosexuality want to deny gay people rights based upon their "beliefs".. I see this as a big difference between myself and Bush... all the difference as a matter of fact.

And this is where you and I differ; I see Bush as wrong, you see him as a hatemonger and wrong. I also know that I'll be doing work to see that the proposed amendment never makes it into law. I hope others will, too.



jazzbound318 -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 7:40:37 PM)

please excuse the snipping...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Then why is it such an impossibility that Bush could "hate the sin, but love the sinner", which in fact he has stated is his stance on homosexuality?
 
I'm not asking anyone to agree with Bush on his policy, but I find it troubling that closed-mindedness and hatred (I'll accept your statement that you don't hate him, julia) are aimed at another. The very name of this thread tells you something.....

BUSH: I’m not sure what kind of view he’s ascribing to me. One day he says he agrees with me, then he says he doesn’t. I will be a tolerant person. I’ve been a tolerant person all my life. I just happen to believe strongly that marriage is between a man and a woman. I don’t really think it’s any of my concern how you conduct your sex life. That’s a private matter. I support equal rights but not special rights for people. "
 
 


This is still an issue of Law. Not of belief or personal opinion, not of Theological debate, but of Law. In a country where there is to be a division of Church and State, in a country where we've seen it proven that 'Separate and Equal' is, to put it lightly, Not, a good policy I can't understand how this is at all supported by any patriotic American.  Denying American citizens the right to marry, because of who they wish to wed is foolish. It's akin to telling two people, 'you can't get married. You're white, you're black. that's just not allowed.'  This has been tried in the past, it failed. Marriage is Not a special right. if it is, then no one should be married. Not gays, not heteros, no one. The reason we live in a country governed Not by a specific religious belief (yes, i know it's roots are in the Judeo-Christian belief system) is to avoid the unlawful persecution of those who do not fall under that specific Religions canons of faith. I'm sorry, but segregation didn't work when it was based on skin pigments, it sure as hell shouldn't work on who you love. *$0.02*  



lisa1978 -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 7:42:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Hi ticia *smiles*.... I want to say, respectfully, that Bush doesn't "hate" you or your friends, or so I believe. He's a fairly decent person with some backward ideas on some things, is all. And I think if you do some looking, you'll find crime and unemployment aren't at too bad a level; of course, if you can't find a job or are the victim of a crime, statistics won't do much to make you feel better.
 
As for Iran and their nuclear program.... there's some folks (even some here at CM) that think they have the right to develop nuclear technology. After all, Iran doesn't meddle in others affairs.... and their leaders firmly believe in peace at all costs..... don't they?.....
 
But yeah. Love is one of life's most valued possessions, and I don't care who has it, gay or straight. Maybe the rest of the world will catch up with our way of thinking one day soon.


So let me get this striaght, according to Bush we went into Iraq mainly because of weapons of mass destruction and the leader was evil, but since we are still in Iraq and cannot afford people or money wise to deal with Iran who actually are trying to makes WMD's and their leader is evil and making direct threats outside of his borders, he has the right to develope them.

In a nutshell this is why there are very few people supporting the President including about half of the Republicans based on Fox news polls. Same old same old. Decide something first and look for any fact no matter how made up to back it.

I do agree with Level that Bush is not evil. Just fatally flawed in stubburnish and zealotry. He has no respect for the constitution because he is always right.





HisTicia -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 7:46:14 PM)

I just don't get it.. what are ppl so afraid of?  I mean.. were my gf and I that scary ... did we cause major world disasters... (I guess according to some we did).  We were just two ppl that loved each other.. and lived our lives just as boring as most.  We went to work.. we lived check to check.. we fought once in a while.. we loved a lot more often.. we laughed.. we cried..  all we wanted was to be allowed to do those things as any other couple.. and along with that.. to be accepted.  The American dream isn't just done by color.. or sex.. or by who you love.. we are all capable of living it..or at least we should be.  That is all they want.. they don't want to ruin your little part of the world.. or have sex in your living room..they just want to be free to have their love.. their families.. in the same way everyone else does.  I can't see anything scary in that.. and if you can.. I really feel sorry for you.
 



Chaingang -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 7:51:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jazzbound318
...yes, i know it's roots are in the Judeo-Christian belief system...


No disagreements jazzbound318, but I do routinely debunk this specific idea with a cut and paste bit I have prepared for the occasion. Many of the Founding Fathers were NOT Christians - and proudly not so. Many were Deists instead. Please note the names of the people I quote. If they thought Christianity was a load of crap maybe it really doesn't have a place in our political discourse - and as you say: "separation of church and state," right?

------------------------------

Deism: [1]deúism. noun. The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion . . . has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble."
-- Benjamin Franklin, letter to Ezra Stiles March 9, 1790

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin, in Toward The Mystery

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
-- James Madison, letter to William Bradford April 1, 1774

"The Christian god can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew, Peter Carr

"The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ leveled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, July 5, 1814

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of . . . Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

"...denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian."
-- Ethan Allen, Reason the Only Oracle of Man

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, -- as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-- and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religous opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
-- Joel Barlow, Article 11 of the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the US and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary, written during Washington's administration, ratified during Adams' administration.

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."
-- John Adams

Further references:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b44ab97110d.htm
http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6177
http://www.deism.org/foundingfathers.htm
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1413815&mesg_id=1413815



Level -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 7:52:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jazzbound318

please excuse the snipping...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Then why is it such an impossibility that Bush could "hate the sin, but love the sinner", which in fact he has stated is his stance on homosexuality?
 
I'm not asking anyone to agree with Bush on his policy, but I find it troubling that closed-mindedness and hatred (I'll accept your statement that you don't hate him, julia) are aimed at another. The very name of this thread tells you something.....

BUSH: I’m not sure what kind of view he’s ascribing to me. One day he says he agrees with me, then he says he doesn’t. I will be a tolerant person. I’ve been a tolerant person all my life. I just happen to believe strongly that marriage is between a man and a woman. I don’t really think it’s any of my concern how you conduct your sex life. That’s a private matter. I support equal rights but not special rights for people. "
 
 
 

Denying American citizens the right to marry, because of who they wish to wed is foolish.




As I've stated several thousand times, I agree with that line of thought. I just don't think disagreeing makes one a hatemonger.
 
And if you want to wave something in Bush's face, how about his "I support equal rights, not special rights"? Wouldn't allowing gays to marry be an "equal right"?



MstrTiger -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 7:52:17 PM)

I agree with jazzbound318 welcome to the boards, you are fabulous. It is amazing how much something that looks to the owner to be worth $0.02 can be worth to other people.



Level -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 8:04:18 PM)

quote:

lisa wrote: So let me get this striaght, according to Bush we went into Iraq mainly because of weapons of mass destruction and the leader was evil, but since we are still in Iraq and cannot afford people or money wise to deal with Iran who actually are trying to makes WMD's and their leader is evil and making direct threats outside of his borders, he has the right to develope them.


Some do think they have the right. It personally makes my shorts bunch up. In case it wasn't clear, my initial post on Iran and their nuclear ambitions was meant to be sarcastic.
 
quote:

Ticia wrote: The American dream isn't just done by color.. or sex.. or by who you love.. we are all capable of living it..or at least we should be.  That is all they want.. they don't want to ruin your little part of the world.. or have sex in your living room..they just want to be free to have their love.. their families.. in the same way everyone else does.  I can't see anything scary in that.. and if you can.. I really feel sorry for you.

 
If you're curious as to whether I in particular "see anything scary in that", then I would point to the shitload of posts where I state that I support gay marriage lol. If you mean it in a general sense, yeah, I do agree with you.



Level -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/3/2006 8:39:38 PM)

Oh, and I was curious...... does the fact that President Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act, and Al Gore supported it, make them haters of gay people?
 
Time to go to sleep here, been a long day. Be well, all.
 
Level



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