RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB...

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pahunkboy -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 12:25:56 PM)
ahh- but there is still community standards. Can vary widely from place to place. One can get charged 1 year in prison in PA for vulgarity. [such as posting an adult picture on the internet] I know a guy in this town that had to pay a lawyer. Ill have to look and see if I have the 'vulgar" pic. It is of a guy in an Army fatigues- with huge endowment. [once again I drift from the topic] The problem is more then bush- it is neocon ideology. No matter how you slice it- we have to shift less neocon in 2008....on the other hand, we could be lucky bush hasnt reformed gravity, and physics. :-D

ArtCatDom -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 1:10:03 PM)
Touching on statistics, I find it much more revealing that while the number of jobs has risen the average income of Americans has declined in real dollars. It's also very revealing that the wealth of the average American has declined when you discount the top 5%. On the OP, it's posturing as it will not survive the process to become an amendment. He's trying to fish out those social conservative votes for the mind-term, as they've been feeling somewhat alientated. meow

ArtCatDom -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 1:16:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMacComb quote: ORIGINAL: darq I agree with this choice ... I'm against gay marriage. I also voted for Bush... Both times. Something to consider while you are bragging about voting for the worst president of all time and the most hated man in the world, if they are successful in their persecution of gays, you will be next. In fact you already are. There has been a concerted effort since the beginning of Bushocracy to suppress anything sexual beyond that which subscribes to their version if what is biblical. Where it up to them (and with your support it may well be) this site, all adult websites, B/S S/M, kink and any form of sexual acts not designed for reproductive purposes would be outlawed. Sodomy laws do still exist in many states as do cohabitation laws which would increase in other states and in the level of arrests made for such. So if/when the sex police, storm troopers, goose stepping Bushsquads kick in your door to see if you are giving a blow job, you will ahve no one to thank but yourself. Think it cant happen? BushCo has broken every other law theyve come across and rewritten the rest to suit their agenda to make the USA a theocracy. You're a bit behind the times. Consentual sodomy is no longer a crime in any State. The Surpreme Court ruled such statutes are unconstitutional. They do however remain as crimes in a non-consentual context. meow

ArtCatDom -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 1:24:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chaingang I am not a pacifist Level. I may not start a fight but I know how to finish one and not hide behind equivocations about what is obviously the case. The deeds of Bushco speak louder than any empty rhetoric. If that's the case, then while he oppose some equal rights for homosexuals (say as in in the case of marriage), he obviously supports some equal rights for homosexuals (say as in the case of employment). He has appointed openly gay individuals to government positions. If he hated homosexuals, I doubt he'd be hiring openly gay people. It's a simple fact that his position on the issue of gay rights is simply not as black and white as either side would like it. In that way (one of the few), he is much like the average American, who has mixed feelings and positions on the matter. meow

ArtCatDom -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 1:28:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jazzbound318 please excuse the snipping... quote: ORIGINAL: Level Then why is it such an impossibility that Bush could "hate the sin, but love the sinner", which in fact he has stated is his stance on homosexuality? I'm not asking anyone to agree with Bush on his policy, but I find it troubling that closed-mindedness and hatred (I'll accept your statement that you don't hate him, julia) are aimed at another. The very name of this thread tells you something..... BUSH: I’m not sure what kind of view he’s ascribing to me. One day he says he agrees with me, then he says he doesn’t. I will be a tolerant person. I’ve been a tolerant person all my life. I just happen to believe strongly that marriage is between a man and a woman. I don’t really think it’s any of my concern how you conduct your sex life. That’s a private matter. I support equal rights but not special rights for people. " from http://www.issues2000.org/2004/George_W__Bush_Civil_Rights.htm This is still an issue of Law. Not of belief or personal opinion, not of Theological debate, but of Law. In a country where there is to be a division of Church and State, in a country where we've seen it proven that 'Separate and Equal' is, to put it lightly, Not, a good policy I can't understand how this is at all supported by any patriotic American. Denying American citizens the right to marry, because of who they wish to wed is foolish. It's akin to telling two people, 'you can't get married. You're white, you're black. that's just not allowed.' This has been tried in the past, it failed. Marriage is Not a special right. if it is, then no one should be married. Not gays, not heteros, no one. The reason we live in a country governed Not by a specific religious belief (yes, i know it's roots are in the Judeo-Christian belief system) is to avoid the unlawful persecution of those who do not fall under that specific Religions canons of faith. I'm sorry, but segregation didn't work when it was based on skin pigments, it sure as hell shouldn't work on who you love. $0.02 While I strongly disagree with Bush's position, I certainly understand it and think it is rational. There are non-religious motivations to opposing gay marriage as well as religious ones. It's a simple fact that never in history, that we are aware, has homosexual marriage existed even in societies condoning homosexual relations (the Greo-Roman culture is a very notable example). Therefore it follows logically that while homosexual relationships can be tolerated (or even condoned) that homosexual marriage is an innovation and "special right". Again, I do not agree with this position but it is entirely rational and not necessarily any indication of hatred towards homosexuals. meow* *EDIT: Until recently.

ArtCatDom -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 1:34:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMacComb quote: ORIGINAL: pinkee [IMO, hatred for any individual, while sometimes understandable, is injurious to the hater and rarely has any effect on the hated. It is more accurate to say i despise Bush's action, apparent motives, and certain of his proposals. pinkee You may well be correct. But it is hard not to feel hatred towards someone that hijacked my political party, used it to promote his version of religious persecution towards others, and has been abusing, torturing, killing and maiming people on a global scale ever since. Not to mention the lies, the graft, theft, over spending, favortism and nepotism. The trampling of our rights and and our security and our constitution. Pretty much everything good about America he has trashed, everything bad he could do in Americas name he has done or is still trying to do. If not hate then what?[:(] If you're a Republican and think that policies of Bush haven't existed in the Republican Party for at least 25 years, you haven't been paying attention to politics. meow

MsMacComb -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 1:45:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom You're a bit behind the times. Consentual sodomy is no longer a crime in any State. The Surpreme Court ruled such statutes are unconstitutional. They do however remain as crimes in a non-consentual context. meow No I'm not behind the times. I am fully aware of the ruling and also know that the first time a backwards state wants to challenge it on a states rights issue with the new appointments (Roberts, Alito) it would be overturned.

MsMacComb -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 1:47:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom If you're a Republican and think that policies of Bush haven't existed in the Republican Party for at least 25 years, you haven't been paying attention to politics. meow Where do people like you come from? What planet? I've seen no other president (GOP) the last 25 years do nothing like Bush has. Do you live at FOX News or something? God but your information is false.

TexasMaam -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 1:55:29 PM)
FYI: http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm TexasMaam

HisTicia -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 2:02:13 PM)
Okay.. I have tried to not let my frustration get the better of me on the post boards.. but.. this one I can't just let go and not respond again. This whole gay marriage thing.. is getting the better of me. I can't understand for anything what is so scary about it.. how unfulfilling are peoples lives..that is so much of a concern for them. I would be way more worried about a war that might take my child.. or an economy that doesn't hardly allow me to survive..than about two ppl in love being able to get married. I think everyone just needs to get a grip and a reality check..and quit being so chicken sh*t about things they don't understand. As a community of ppl that are looked down upon in somewhat of the same way.. I am ashamed that we can't have more compassion for those that suffer in worse ways than we do from it. When we don't.. we make ourselves actually worse than them. Doesn't anyone else see this? Plenty of arguments can be given why ppl shouldn't flog for sexual pleasure... or tie someone up by the same ppl that prosecute . Remember one thing in all of this.. when they have punished one group of ppl enough.. they get tired and move on to another one... what will happen if it is you next time for what ever reason? We are each one only a step away from being the target... think about it. ~Ticia edited.. Btw.. I don't hate anyone.. I find it is much more effective to pity them.

DelightMachine -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 6:04:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chaingang "Bush Backs Amendment Banning Gay Marriage" http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2035036 WASHINGTON Jun 2, 2006 (AP)— President Bush will promote a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage on Monday, the eve of a scheduled Senate vote on the cause that is dear to his conservative backers. The amendment would prohibit states from recognizing same-sex marriages. To become law, the proposal would need two-thirds support in the Senate and House, and then be ratified by at least 38 state legislatures. ---- What a jackass... I just wanted to say how convincing I found Chaingang's arguments in this thread. He's absolutely proven that: 1. If you don't support extending gay rights, you must be a hater of gays. (Lisa 1978, HisTicia,Alumbrado and juliaoceana agree. And of course MsMacomb agrees.) 2. Therefore everyone's entitled to insult politicians who disagree with that point of view, quote: It is perfectly rational to be intolerant of intolerance. It's more a matter of visiting upon some people that which they would otherwise visit upon others - I just reflect their own bullshit back at them. So someone that preaches intolerance and wants to reestablish bigotry in our Constitution deserves nothing but the intolerance and contempt he apparently supports. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=406678 3. Because, after all, only people who agree with Chaingang are good people, all the rest are either deluded, stupid or, if they're prominent leaders, jerks. quote: Basically decent people don't support ideas like that. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=407806 I have to hand it to Level. He has so much more patience with this than I do. I don't recall anyone having an answer to this question Level asked: quote: Oh, and I was curious...... does the fact that President Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act, and Al Gore supported it, make them haters of gay people? I've gotten hot under the collar in some threads, too, so I know how you can fall into it.. Just realize that it's not too effective a way of convincing anyone else, and it's not going to make you feel any better either. So what's the point? But you know, the most revealing thing in this revealing thread is this statement by Level: quote: If this thing amends the Constitution, it's going to make that incident in Laramie Wyoming seem justified. After all, if gays don't have basic rights - they must be subhuman, right? This kind of crap begins with stuff like this. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=406678 Think about this way of reasoning for a minute: Someone disagrees with you. If you wildly exaggerated their position, you could make them seem like a monster. Now that they're a monster, you can despise them. Therefore, no need to argue the issue rationally, no need to try to be tolerant -- just let your emotions run wild. It's so much more satisfying to think that people who disagree with you are monsters. That makes you feel much better because it makes you seem more upright. And it saves you the trouble of thinking. Just be careful not to become just the kind of intolerant hater you despise.

Level -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 6:43:06 PM)
*Good evening, DM. I appreciate the kind words regarding my patience grins. One thing I need to point out is the quote here:* "If this thing amends the Constitution, it's going to make that incident in Laramie Wyoming seem justified. After all, if gays don't have basic rights - they must be subhuman, right? This kind of crap begins with stuff like this." was from Chaingang, I think. And he was the only one that did answer my question about Clinton/Gore. Now..... I wasn't too surprised that no one else did, especially a couple of our friends here lol. Anyway, good to see you weigh in on the subject. Level

Chaingang -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 7:06:07 PM)
In what way is it possible to support bigoted legislation but not be a bigot? Either of you two geniuses care to answer that one?

Alumbrado -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 7:12:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chaingang Alumbrado: Are you nuts? People are tried under olde timey sodomy laws all the time. That 2003 ruling will get tested - never fear. For all we know it might get reversed by a new court. That happens all the time. Do the words "eternal vigilance" mean anything to you? Yeah, just like runaway slaves are tried under old time laws all the time. Because that whole 'state's rights' thing is working so well, don't ya know? Eternally vigilant is for comic books, I have to work for progressive causes in the real world..something made more difficult by internet rumors and scare tactics. Learn how the system actually works, and you might have a chance of doing something against it.

mgdartist -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 7:15:55 PM)
im amazed that all these years after a duly elected republican administration, you people still are complaining about this candidate. The people have spoken! I give you this post election breakdown map to remind you of who WE voted in, and is subsequently still in charge: [img]http://www.mgdartist.com/image/dumbfuckistan.png[/img] So DEAL! lol mgd

DelightMachine -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 7:34:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level One thing I need to point out is the quote here: "If this thing amends the Constitution, it's going to make that incident in Laramie Wyoming seem justified. After all, if gays don't have basic rights - they must be subhuman, right? This kind of crap begins with stuff like this." was from Chaingang, I think. And he was the only one that did answer my question about Clinton/Gore. Oops! So sorry, Level -- of course I meant to say I was quoting Chaingang, not you. I was tired. I guess Chaingang was answering you when he said this: quote: Yes. Anyone that supports less than equal rights for anyone is supporting bigotry and hatred. Why do you have trouble with that? http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=406916

darq -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 7:42:18 PM)
I have a question, and this is serious ... People keep mentioning the constition ... Where in the constitution does it say that gay people can get married? Also, has anyone considered the fact that allowing them to get married is basically allowing them to suffer the miserable consequences of divorce as well? People get married, stay that way for a few years and then get divorced and bitch about who got the most stuff and how horribly they got screwed over by their ex. If anything, not being allowed to get married in the first place is sparing you all that ...

DelightMachine -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 7:42:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chaingang In what way is it possible to support bigoted legislation but not be a bigot? Have you ever lifted a finger to look at the arguments against gay marriage? Go find them. I don't feel like doing your work for you, and I don't have the time. One place you can search to find a load of them is NationalReview.com but there are plenty of other places where you'll find non-bigoted, tolerant, non-hating people who have intelligent things to say on that side of the issue. quote: Either of you two geniuses care to answer that one? NOW you're beginning to recognize our superior powers, Chaingang. I knew you'd come around eventually. I knew all it would take was my and Level's pointing out to you the error of your ways and you'd see the light. Good boy!

Level -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 7:53:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darq I have a question, and this is serious ... People keep mentioning the constition ... Where in the constitution does it say that gay people can get married? Also, has anyone considered the fact that allowing them to get married is basically allowing them to suffer the miserable consequences of divorce as well? People get married, stay that way for a few years and then get divorced and bitch about who got the most stuff and how horribly they got screwed over by their ex. If anything, not being allowed to get married in the first place is sparing you all that ... darq, I'm just guessing here, but a lot of folks think gay marriage could be Constituionally (sp?) protected when it speaks of the right to the pursuit of happiness.

Level -> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... (6/4/2006 7:59:06 PM)
From the American Heritage online dictionary -- Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. As I said in an earlier post, the legislation may indeed be bigoted, and although many bigots harbor hate, I didn't think Bush went that far.

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