quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

You have claimed atheism is somehow "bad" - you have yet to demonstrate this, which you would have to do if you are arguing that "something should be done about it".

There is no shortage of evidence however, that great evil has been done in the name of religion.

Your so-called evidence is evidence that great evil has been committed by humanity. Given that the vast bulk of humanity are close to being atheists, you may have to come to grips with the fact that the problem is atheism and not religion. Your so-called evidence also has other problems. Atheists in this forum for example prefer subjective truth over objective truth. This is not encouraging since I was assuming that professed atheists were atheists because they prefer objective truth. Dislike is not an objective criteria. In other words, the precepts of atheism have been taken on faith. I nonetheless suspect that it will be easier to convince professed atheists that God exists over so-called believers who do not believe since their faith is partly delusional. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that the unfolding of time, i.e. history, occurs due to how man wanted things to unfold.

There is reason to believe that Christ will save some people whose faith is partly delusional. There is also reason to believe that Christ will save some professed atheists since they do not know what they do. If Christ is going to save some professed atheists, it could be construed that it is a duty for Christians to lay that foundation and accept professed atheists as beloved of God.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

In the name of religion doesnt mean religion did it.
You are proposing that most people are atheists because they believe in the wrong sort of religion.
Very dangerous road youre taking.

Oh I think it does - you saying Inter Caterae is not the product of religion? The inquisition?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

In the name of religion doesnt mean religion did it.
You are proposing that most people are atheists because they believe in the wrong sort of religion.
Very dangerous road youre taking.

Oh I think it does - you saying Inter Caterae is not the product of religion? The inquisition?

Maybe I shudda said in the name of god doesnt mean god did it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Given that the vast bulk of humanity are close to being atheists, you may have to come to grips with the fact that the problem is atheism and not religion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
In other words, empiricism cannot be used to resolve moral problems.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/03/whats-connection-between-religion-and.html
Unsurprisingly, religious people were more likely to be homophobic - in fact, religion was one of the strongest predictors of attitudes to homosexuals.

It also turned out that more religious people were more likely to be authoritarian, conservative, poorer, and Protestant - all factors that also predicted homophobia. Women were also more likely to be religious, but less likely than men to be homophobic.

But even after taking all this into account, religious people were still more likely to be homophobic. In other words, an authoritarian conservative is even more likely to be homophobic if they are also religious. Women are more likely to be homophobic if they are religious. Among all the possible factors they explored, two stuck out as being much more powerful predictors of homophobia than the rest: conservatism and religiosity.

So it seems that religion really does make people homophobic. Now, the interesting thing is that, although religion was also linked to racism, the link was extremely weak. So it doesn't seem that religion in general is acting to strengthen group identification. The implication of this is that religion really does powerfully add to homophobia because of its moral condemnation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
In other words, empiricism cannot be used to resolve moral problems.

It works a whole lot better than superstition. You won't find oh say secular humanists oppressing homosexuals for Jesus.

Sadly the same can't be said for Christians.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
It's the more secular among you who dragged our civilization out of the witch burning insanity of the dark ages which christianity cast us into in the first place. Not the other way around.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Winston Churchill
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient" Rome.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Godverdomme!
thats dutch and I made an art of saying it.
Its an anti authority thing.
...
but actually it says god dumb me

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Moral perfection is achievable through grace since God is the final arbiter. You could say, God holds a magic wand of sorts. He or she achieved moral perfection because God said so. It is what God thinks that matters. It is not what we think that matters.

quote:

The Beatitudes Matthew 5:3–12 New American Standard Bible

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.