RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism

Page: << < prev 10 11 [12] 13 14 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 9:29:15 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Technology is also the only tool that will help us escape our dying planet one day and your followers can spread the word of God into eternity.

It seems fair to say that everyone knows that technology is a dual edged sword and so I am uncertain I understand your point. Technology is incomplete.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Profile

Post #: 221

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 10:30:46 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

I found this interesting. I felt like googling the words "knashing teeth".

quote:

http://www.minuteswithmessiah.com/question/gnashing.html

... without goodness there is just hatred and envy. We can even see this to a certain extent today. Those who do not live by God's principles bite and tear each other on the way to the top, in business or any other aspect of life. ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I wonder what ET would say about Jesus???

That is an interesting question. Maybe ET came from a society that embraced secular humanism a long time ago and went mad and it is best to stay as far away from them as possible. I seem to remember that Stephen Hawking did some speculation on this point. We could end up like the American Indians. I googled it and came up with this link http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2010/0426/Stephen-Hawking-aliens-warning-Should-we-hide

(in reply to MrBukani)

Profile

Post #: 222

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 11:01:37 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
My views are based on ideas that are ancient which implies that they are indeed consistent with common sense.[/size]

This is a strange thing to say given ancient beliefs. We'd not consider many ancient rituals such as being buried with all your possessions, in order to have them in the afterlife, common sense.

We tend to know more than we did yesterday, the lack of ancient technology also points to the fact we haven't forgotten much worth knowing. Sure we can assume it wasn't their goal to amass technical understanding of the universe. I guess we could rather assume they wanted to communicate with god via a pebble arrangement on the ground. I mean none of us really know for sure how cutting of a lambs head whilst dancing naked around an alter could bring us closer to god.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Profile

Post #: 223

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 11:06:58 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

"If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit" - an all too common form of "enlightenment" I'm afraid.

What you wrote made more sense when I clicked on the reply to link.

(in reply to xssve)

Profile

Post #: 224

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 11:12:59 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
My views are based on ideas that are ancient which implies that they are indeed consistent with common sense.

This is a strange thing to say given ancient beliefs. We'd not consider many ancient rituals such as being buried with all your possessions, in order to have them in the afterlife, common sense.

We tend to know more than we did yesterday, the lack of ancient technology also points to the fact we haven't forgotten much worth knowing. Sure we can assume it wasn't their goal to amass technical understanding of the universe. I guess we could rather assume they wanted to communicate with god via a pebble arrangement on the ground. I mean none of us really know for sure how cutting of a lambs head whilst dancing naked around an alter could bring us closer to god.

Counter to your intuition perhaps. You have to admit that such ideas have withstood the test of time. What I said is not strange if you think about it. As I see it you are just biased. You need to embrace a little more of that secular humanism.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Profile

Post #: 225

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 11:25:25 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

The oldest joke is the 'why did the chicken..' one, it's not funny but everyone knows it, everone remembers it.

Ideas persist sometimes as an example to show how far we've come, little more.

Yes we are all biased, anyone that wants to perform any kind of judgement has to be biased (in the end). People don't say things like: 'I have a very strong view that I don't know what my opinion should be.' or 'I don't know anything about god and that is why I believe in god.'

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 3/19/2012 11:27:53 AM >

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Profile

Post #: 226

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 11:30:42 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

We are evidently on different wavelengths. Maybe you could restore my faith in atheism and show me that it is not just about people wanting to believe something to be true, that it is actually based on objective considerations.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Profile

Post #: 227

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 11:41:09 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

Nobody can restore your faith in anything.

I would not choose to be an atheist (given the choice), it's not a choice, it's a realisation. Nobody thinks 'Humm I know instead of believing my loved ones go to heaven I'll instead choose to believe they don't because it doesn't exist.' You can't give people faith and you can't take it away from them, you have it or you don't (based on events rather than reasoned arguments). I see this from both sides having tried to convince people of something on this subject previously. Once their mind is made up one way or the other it is impossible. There are no words that'll take away from the things that have happened in a person's life that have informed that judgement on faith.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 3/19/2012 11:43:39 AM >

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Profile

Post #: 228

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 11:44:25 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Technology is also the only tool that will help us escape our dying planet one day and your followers can spread the word of God into eternity.

It seems fair to say that everyone knows that technology is a dual edged sword and so I am uncertain I understand your point. Technology is incomplete.

Everything has a double edge or two sides of the coin, not just technology.
We assume God gave us free will, thats where things can go bad.
We blame eve for tempting adam, but adam could have stood steadfast and said no.
But God must have had a reason for it, cause God knows like nobody else what free will means.
So had he given us way more good intentions then bad the shit would never have happened.
But it seems a bit evenly divided hanging a little more weight to good.
Would God make such an effort to create something in his own image only to know it will perish cause the earth dies?
Is that eternity?
And how can God bring his message to ET who is maybe a heretic.
Bottomline is any intelligent being that has simular knowledge know planets die.
Thats the whole thing about the spaceprogram.
If he wanted us to go to america to convert people, why would he not want the same for other planets.
And what does free will really mean? It must mean if that is our essence God has free will also.
So God can choose to be bad also?

I will show you what I mean why an atheist in general is more carefull. IMHO.
First mull over this.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Profile

Post #: 229

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 11:46:14 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Nobody can restore your faith in anything.

I would not choose to be an atheist (given the choice), it's not a choice, it's a realisation. Nobody thinks 'Humm I know instead of believing my loved ones go to heaven I'll instead choose to believe they don't because it doesn't exist.' You can't give people faith and you can't take it away from them, you have it or you don't (based on events rather than reasoned arguments). I see this from both sides having tried to convince people of something on this subject previously. Once their mind is made up one way or the other it is impossible. There are no words that'll take away from the things that have happened in a person's life that haved informed that judgement on faith.

I sense that you have a firmer grasp of the subject than some of the dingbats I've encountered. As such I welcome your views.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Profile

Post #: 230

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 11:54:21 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

To add on why God would make a creature he knows is gonna die. In Gods time all is relative. So humans are just a speck in time yet.
If he wants us to die, we are just an experiment to him, cause it has no real use to create something wich is gone the next moment.

And I mean free will with the creation in Gods own image.
Cause we certainly dont look like God or God is just a human with eternal life.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Profile

Post #: 231

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 12:03:40 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Personal redefinition of words? Google magick. Magick is either technology or it is a term to describe a more general concept.

Nope. That's just plain factually wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magick#Definitions_and_general_purpose_of_magick
Magick is an Early Modern English spelling for magic, used in works such as the 1651 translation of Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa's De Occulta Philosophia, Three Books of Occult Philosophy, or Of Magick. The British occultist Aleister Crowley chose the spelling to differentiate the occult from stage magic and defined it as "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will", including both "mundane" acts of will as well as ritual magic. Crowley wrote that "it is theoretically possible to cause in any object any change of which that object is capable by nature".[1] John Symonds and Kenneth Grant attach a deeper occult significance to this preference.[2]

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 3/19/2012 12:17:31 PM >

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Profile

Post #: 232

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 12:20:46 PM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

Get lost dingbat.

(in reply to GotSteel)

Profile

Post #: 233

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 12:40:08 PM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

Getting back to some intelligent conversation. Modern atheism I believe borrows ideas from physics and biology. For example, even protons have a half life albeit a very long half life. What this suggests is that nothing is real. Since we are in a losing battle against entropy it is full speed ahead. The faster we make progress the better. The problem with proton decay is that this is not settled science.

quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay

In particle physics, proton decay is a hypothetical form of radioactive decay in which the proton decays into lighter subatomic particles, such as a neutral pion and a positron. There is currently no experimental evidence that proton decay occurs.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Profile

Post #: 234

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 12:47:29 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
I strongly advise you not to use personal redefinitions of words.

Since you quoted this I assume it's your first issue. I'm trying to explain to you that you can't misuse words if you want people to take you seriously. Your misuse of terms is one of the two big reasons why this thread has mostly just been you conversing with yourself.

Take the example below, while it does sort of resemble the Christian position in some respects there are glaring inaccuracies and misuses of language. So while some atheists might have a chuckle over it, if I were to actually try and have a conversation with you where I came into it using those terms and definition of your position it would end up coming across as me ranting crazy gibberish.

Here's the thing, when you do things like misuse the word magick and miss-define the majority of christians as atheists you run the risk of the rest of us not understanding what you're actually saying and simply writing your arguments off as nonsensical.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Profile

Post #: 235

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 12:48:36 PM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Since we are in a losing battle against entropy it is full speed ahead.

Was this not the sort of thinking that got us into trouble in the Global Financial Crisis?

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Profile

Post #: 236

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 1:17:15 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
The process in which we evaluate whether a thing is good or evil has little to do with the means to do it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Decoupling morality from reality is one of the reasons why Christian morality was historically and is out of whack with reality and why so many Christians have resorted to using secular humanism as their source of morality.

The second part you quoted, a current example of my position that what means we use to determine "whether a thing is good or evil" can change the outcome is "life begins at conception". Many have come to the conclusion that this is true by means of their faith, however if we crack a Biology textbook we find that both the sperm and ovum are alive, so the statement is factually demonstrably wrong.

This is one example out of many of why I'm in favor of using the knowledge of reality that we have gained over the last couple thousand years to inform our choices on moral issues.

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 3/19/2012 1:18:56 PM >

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Profile

Post #: 237

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 1:21:14 PM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

Atheists appear to be unable to reason abstractly. I did not realize this. I thought atheists intellectuals for example were simply trying to make our understanding of things more precise.

(in reply to GotSteel)

Profile

Post #: 238

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 1:28:40 PM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

Just a very personal view.

I dont know at what age I stopped believing in God
I truly dont know if I ever believed.
I was raised roman catholic.
There was one thing I remember where I lost a lot.
Dad played Sinterklaas (Your Santa we dutchies brought him to you) for the kids ( I was 5 or 6yrs ) I said THATS DAD! Mom told me to hush.
We all believed somehow in the myth. But it was never dad. So Mom and Dad lied to me. From then on I knew everything I was ever told without proof could be a lie.
I am a carbon copy of my dad and although he said he believed, before he died he struggled immensly with wether God existed.

So me not believing has little to do with science.

before my com crashes again I post this and then I will go into my view of atheism vs Christianity specific.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Profile

Post #: 239

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/19/2012 1:43:25 PM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

Its all about justice with me.

Jesus died for all our sins.

Its good that I do not believe, otherwise I would probably, lie, steal, cheat and murder. And I would repent my sins in the end and say.
Whoops I did it again. Sorry I am really changed now i had my fill.

But I cannot do that because I am an atheist. The son I would murder will never be forgiven by myself or the family of the victim never has to forgive me either.

So relish the fact I do not believe.
Cause I have a very vengefull streak in my blood , veins and genes.

I always felt like that. Later on I read of Constantine the Great and he wanted to be baptised at the end of his life so all his sins would be forgiven.
See the danger?
See how somebody who lived more then 1500 years before me thought exactly what I did?

(in reply to MrBukani)

Profile

Post #: 240