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Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 4:41:05 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Status: offline 		On another thread, this subject came up and I hope I'm not violating TOS if I repost the quote, here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
Getting away from "Chickenhawk" Limbaugh for a moment, actor and Religious Rightist Kirk Cameron is a good example of this. He goes on TV and attacks gays, saying he has a 1st Amendment right to speak his mind on the subject in a public forum...

And then complains about "hate speech" when others use their 1st Amendment right to criticize what he said in a public forum...

He seems to believe that he has a 1st Amendment right to say what he wishes - and everyone else only has a 1st Amendment right to agree with him...



I hadn't really paid any attention to this but, I've done some reading, now.

I have not been able to find anything where he says his detractors are using "hate speech". I saw headlines that said that but, nothing where he actually said it.

I did find a link where he called the backlash "slander":

Cameron's Been Slandered

quote:



But Cameron, who is promoting a new film, sounded unrepentant in an email to ABCNews.com.

"I spoke as honestly as I could, but some people believe my responses were not loving toward those in the gay community," he wrote. "That is not true. I can assuredly say that it's my life's mission to love all people."

Cameron said in the email that he believed he "should be able to express moral views on social issues, especially those that have been the underpinning of Western civilization for 2000 years -- without being slandered, accused of hate speech and told from those who preach 'tolerance' that I need to either bend my beliefs to their moral standards or be silent when I'm in the public square."



In fairness to Cameron; he was asked about homosexuality and that was what elicited his comments. GLAAD, however, twisted his words a bit ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mediaite

When asked if he considered homosexuality a sin, he answered, “I think its unnatural, I think it’s detrimental and ultimately destructive to so many foundations of civilization.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/kirk-cameron-shocks-piers-morgan-homosexuality-is-unnatural-and-destructive-to-civilization/


quote:



"Saying that gay people are 'detrimental to civilization' may be 'loving' in Kirk Cameron's mind," GLAAD said, "but it's gay youth and victims of bullying who truly suffer from adults like Cameron who espouse these ideas."



He said nothing about gay people. In may be a hair-split but, I think it's an important one.

Surely, we hate seeing someone who's doing something with which we don't agree but we don't hate them ?

As I said; I have seen him call the onslaught "slander" but not "hate speech".



Peace and comfort,



Michael

ETA: to remove an unintentional, insulting sentence

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/14/2012 5:02:24 PM >

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 4:48:10 PM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		Exclusive: Kirk Cameron Responds to Critics, ‘Hate Speech’

Kirk Cameron is fighting back against the “hate speech” he feels he’s endured since calling homosexuality “unnatural,” “detrimental,” and “ultimately destructive to so many of the foundations of civilization” during a Friday appearance on “Piers Morgan Tonight” to promote his new film, “Monumental.”

In an email statement released exclusively to ABCNews.com today, Cameron said that when Morgan asked him to share his views on homosexuality, “I spoke as honestly as I could, but some people believe my responses were not loving toward those in the gay community. That is not true. I can assuredly say that it’s my life’s mission to love all people.”

“I should be able to express moral views on social issues,” he said, “especially those that have been the underpinning of Western civilization for 2,000 years — without being slandered, accused of hate speech, and told from those who preach ‘tolerance’ that I need to either bend my beliefs to their moral standards or be silent when I’m in the public square.”

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/03/exclusive-kirk-cameron-responds-to-critics-hate-speech/

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 4:55:10 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

He said nothing about gay people. In may be a hair-split but, I think it's an important one.


Definitely a hair-split and one I've heard a lot as a gay man. Must say it's never convinced me. Homosexuality is us gay folk being ourselves. Saying that it's detrimental to civilization is, for my money, saying that I am.

quote:

Surely, we hate seeing someone who's in the grip of drug addiction, wasting their life away but we don't hate them ?


I'm sure you didn't mean this analogy to be insulting, but it really is.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 4:57:40 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
I'm sure you didn't mean this analogy to be insulting, but it really is.


No. I definitely did not mean to be insulting and I apologize. I just meant to show that people can dislike an activity without disliking the people that engage in it. I promise. That is all I meant but I do apologize and I will try to be more careful in the future.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 5:02:20 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Saying that it's detrimental to civilization is, for my money, saying that I am.


Thats certainly how I took it.

quote:

“ultimately destructive to so many foundations of civilization”


My follow up would have been... what foundations of civilization? I have asked that question before. I doubt it would surprise you, dc, that many could not give an answer that could not be disputed.
quote:

Saying that it's detrimental to civilization is, for my money, saying that I am.


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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 5:06:32 PM   
searching4mysir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

He said nothing about gay people. In may be a hair-split but, I think it's an important one.


Definitely a hair-split and one I've heard a lot as a gay man. Must say it's never convinced me. Homosexuality is us gay folk being ourselves. Saying that it's detrimental to civilization is, for my money, saying that I am.

quote:

Surely, we hate seeing someone who's in the grip of drug addiction, wasting their life away but we don't hate them ?


I'm sure you didn't mean this analogy to be insulting, but it really is.



I really don't define myself by my sexuality. It's no ones business who I allow to play with my pussy except the person playing with it.

This being said, as a Christian, Mr. Cameron is told by his faith to love everyone, even his enemies. This means wanting the best for them, which is Heaven. When he sees people participating in behavior/activities that his faith sees as blocking their path to Heaven, wouldn't it be the loving thing for him to encourage them to turn away from that behavior, whatever that behavior may be? Is it hate speech to do that? He may be misguided in his beliefs, but that doesn't make him hateful or evil.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 5:08:26 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

No. I definitely did not mean to be insulting and I apologize. I just meant to show that people can dislike an activity without disliking the people that engage in it. I promise. That is all I meant but I do apologize and I will try to be more careful in the future.


Thanks, Michael! I really appreciate it.

The analogy that sometimes works for me is lefthandedness, which was once considered to be sinister (Latin for "left") but is now understood as just another human variation. But then, I'm a lefty!

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 5:10:20 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

No. I definitely did not mean to be insulting and I apologize. I just meant to show that people can dislike an activity without disliking the people that engage in it. I promise. That is all I meant but I do apologize and I will try to be more careful in the future.


Thanks, Michael! I really appreciate it.

The analogy that sometimes works for me is lefthandedness, which was once considered to be sinister (Latin for "left") but is now understood as just another human variation. But then, I'm a lefty!


I changed the original, also and noted why I did it. My apology was sincere as you have never been anything but polite to me and I thank you for pointing it out.

Could I C-mail you with a question?



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 5:29:28 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I really don't define myself by my sexuality.


I'll take your word for it.

quote:

It's no ones business who I allow to play with my pussy except the person playing with it.


Agreed.

quote:

This being said, as a Christian, Mr. Cameron is told by his faith to love everyone, even his enemies. This means wanting the best for them, which is Heaven. When he sees people participating in behavior/activities that his faith sees as blocking their path to Heaven, wouldn't it be the loving thing for him to encourage them to turn away from that behavior, whatever that behavior may be?


“I think that it’s unnatural, that it’s detrimental, and ultimately destructive to so many of the foundations of civilization.” I'm trying to hear that as a "loving" statement, but I'm afraid I'm not succeeding. Perhaps a lack of imagination on my part, I admit.

I'm also wondering how "loving" it would have seemed if Cameron had said, as his faith might have instructed, that Jews should convert to avoid going to hell. That may sound far-fetched, but Christians once did think it their duty to cajole or even coerce non-Christians into converting.

quote:

Is it hate speech to do that? He may be misguided in his beliefs, but that doesn't make him hateful or evil.


Much as I disagree with Cameron, his comments didn't strike me as hate speech.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 5:31:40 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Could I C-mail you with a question?


Sure!

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 5:40:37 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir
This being said, as a Christian, Mr. Cameron is told by his faith to love everyone, even his enemies. This means wanting the best for them, which is Heaven. When he sees people participating in behavior/activities that his faith sees as blocking their path to Heaven, wouldn't it be the loving thing for him to encourage them to turn away from that behavior, whatever that behavior may be? Is it hate speech to do that? He may be misguided in his beliefs, but that doesn't make him hateful or evil.


No, it just makes him a stupid twat. Honestly, why do nutcases like this even get air-time? Who really cares?

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 5:43:09 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Who really cares?


Quoted for truth

Why is a nincompoop such as that even worth a second thought?

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 5:48:25 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

without being slandered, accused of hate speech


I predict THIS is the language the beaters of dead horses will attack as 'controversial to the claims made.

I think it would be MUCH more worthwhile to discuss is +WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK ABOUT KIRK CAM_MORON IN THE FIRST PLACE?

What we do know though is that Kirkie was using the time honored pin-the-hate_speech-on the liberal tradition popular in right wing politics and Republican children's birthday parties


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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 6:18:11 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Who really cares?


Quoted for truth

Why is a nincompoop such as that even worth a second thought?



*Sigh* I guess I should go and google Kirk Cameron. Presumably, he's someone big in US politics whose wisdom is highly respected, or something. Perhaps his mind is as widely admired as that of Schwarzenegger or even Reagan? I can't keep up with these intellectual titans that American politics keeps producing.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 6:23:58 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		Done my googling.

Oh, I see - he's an *actor*! Well, of course that makes whatever he says of much more importance than if he were a mere intellectual. I was so in the wrong and admit it, now. I am genuflecting as I write.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 6:32:36 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Who really cares?


Quoted for truth

Why is a nincompoop such as that even worth a second thought?


Point taken. And yet . . .

When views like Cameron's, claiming to be be rooted in faith, seep into the atmosphere, you know there will be folks who latch on to them as proof that God shares their prejudices. So I think it's important for others, particularly people of faith, to say, "Wait. That's not how I see it."

As a sometime Episcopalian, I was particularly proud when my bishop spoke out for marriage equality. Her essay won't convince everyone, I well know, but it helped make clear that Christianity need not equal Cameron's perspective.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 7:09:52 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

So I think it's important for others, particularly people of faith, to say, "Wait. That's not how I see it."


You know what? From that perspective you're right. I apologize to the extent that I didn't factor that in. My objection to the dead horse as I put it being revived has more to do with the motives in the OP.


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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 7:20:42 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

As a sometime Episcopalian, I was particularly proud when my bishop spoke out for marriage equality. Her essay won't convince everyone, I well know, but it helped make clear that Christianity need not equal Cameron's perspective.


I read it and I admit it's a nice sentiment but, coming from someone that goes to church to placate family members or, every couple of years, when the spirit "moves" me, I don't know why this is such a huge fucking issue (forgetting about the laws, for a moment).

WTF do I care who you love as long as you're not busy hating? I understand, trying to show Christians where they're "wrong" but, what's the chances of that happening?

Ostensibly, most Episcopalians believe as the Bishop does? Nothing to win there. I think there may be a small percentage in other faiths that may read that and at least re-think their position but, by-and-large, religious traditionalists of every stripe are very "black-and-white" in how they see things. "My way is the right way because God said so! You don't agree? You're outside the church."

I think religion has done a good job, chasing most moderates away. I think the people that are left are the "true believers" that won't change their views until they get to the pearly gates and St. Peter, wearing a pick chiffon gown, is tongue kissing St. Michael.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 7:37:33 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Who really cares?


Quoted for truth

Why is a nincompoop such as that even worth a second thought?


Point taken. And yet . . .

When views like Cameron's, claiming to be be rooted in faith, seep into the atmosphere, you know there will be folks who latch on to them as proof that God shares their prejudices. So I think it's important for others, particularly people of faith, to say, "Wait. That's not how I see it."

As a sometime Episcopalian, I was particularly proud when my bishop spoke out for marriage equality. Her essay won't convince everyone, I well know, but it helped make clear that Christianity need not equal Cameron's perspective.

Not sure I believe in God,but I was raised a Catholic and I understood my Catholicism I would havehad two,no three choices.
I can choose to search the Bible for guidance.....but that choice gets rejected when I realize that this tome will direct me to stone anyone who shall violate the Sabbath,directs the slave to obey his/her mater(not the fun type of consensual slavery we all practice folks...lol) etc.etc.
Choice 2) I can listen to the leaders of my church and take my guidance from them.....but no, they failed me and the flock when they chose to condone,turn a blind eye or otherwise sweep rampant pedophilia under the rug.....so that's out.
Choice 3) Ant this is the one I would choose,were I to still believe in god.The God I was taught to love in Sunday School(or at least as I came to understand Him while the lessons were being taught) was one of unlimited love,who would never be as judgmental as Mr Cameron was ,this was a god of love,peace and understanding...at least that is how I remembered the teachings.Perhaps there was so much violence in my home life that I totally rejected and discarded all the stories of a judgmental,vindictive God.....maybe I am in error here...but if I were still a practicing Catholic I would point out to Kirk that it is he who is in error...and ask that he repent and change his evil ways

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 3/14/2012 7:39:32 PM >

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/14/2012 8:01:31 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		Kirk Cameron is in a unique position. Pretty much everybody (of a certain age range, and who participated in mainstream culture at the time) knows who he is, and an overwhelming majority really don't care. He has a niche market in an ideological minority community that feels persecuted to begin with. The absolute best thing he can do to get seriously rich, and stay that way, is to get the liberals fired up and talking about him, and watch the personal appearance fees go up as his market base rallies behind him, and the free advertising finds him new consumers.



< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 3/14/2012 8:05:07 PM >

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