LafayetteLady
Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:
ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
I'm saying that often, while the concept and theory of the good a law will do, when put in practice becomes problematic. This particular law creates more work for district attorneys...
As the law is written, anyone can say they felt in danger for their life and acted accordingly. Considering in nearly every circumstance where this defense will be used, the other person will not be able to present their side (since they will be dead), can't you see how it creates a problem?
Well, "nearly every circumstance" overstates the case. The ratio of (non-accidental) non-fatal to fatal gunshot injuries ranges from 3:1 to 5:1 depending on what source you consult. And the fact that a good law makes more work for district attorneys doesn't strike me as a powerful argument against it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
There are more than enough laws on the books to allow people to defend themselves and their property. This particular law does nothing but create a potential defense when there shouldn't be one.
I don't understand what you mean by saying that it creates a defense where there shouldn't be one. My reaction to that is, of course there should! I'm not an attorney (I suppose that's obvious) but, from what I've read about what people who have defended themselves have been put through after the fact, the absence of such a law seems to leave someone having to prove their innocence. That's just fundamentally wrong.
K.
Ok, to be clear, I'm not reading any other posts on this thread because it is nothing more than bickering back and forth.
I know I'm not wording it well. Considering I haven't slept in nearly 48 hours could be a partial explanation for that. The other part is the pain killers I have been on.
So let me try again, and if it still comes out wrong, my apologies in advance.
Stand Your Ground does not specifically apply to guns as deadly force only, so let's for just a moment (and in the hope I can be more clear) forget about the use of a gun as deadly force. Let's take a circumstance where a person is attacked by say a mugger. SYG allows for the victim to use "deadly force" if they believe they are in imminent danger of serious harm or death, and if I were being mugged, I would certainly have that fear. Now, "like for like" says that even in this circumstance you can only use force equal to the force being used against you. In fact, this is pretty broad, even broaching to a point of being comparable to SYG, because all factors are taken into account. So if it is a petite woman and a large guy, she could possibly be justified under "like for like" using a knife or a baseball bat in her defense, because the size difference and the "reasonable belief" of fear is taken into consideration. Still with me?
However, aside from inside your home (where while not always different, frequently so), the theory has always been to disarm your attacker and to escape. In other words, don't be stupid and try to stand up to the mugger (again, tired, but the movie "Ghost" comes to mind).
But back to our petite woman and the big, burly mugger. There is a large piece of wood nearby and she manages to get her hands on it, and in her fear beats the shit out of the mugger, and in her fear continues to beat him after he is down. I think we can agree that she has "stood her ground," right? Now, she was being mugged, and obviously it was self defense, even if she did go overboard. Police arrive at the scene, investigate, find the woman's claim of self defense to be likely and while the DA would still likely review the report and could decide otherwise, the whole thing is over except for the mental anguish of the woman who the guy attempted to mug.
Now here we don't have the option of giving the guy her purse and then running. I didn't mention it, but he was attempting some kind of violence, physically threatening her. She defended herself, and all is good.
Now let's look at what could happen with SYG. Essentially it is like saying each and every person has the right to play vigilante. Want my purse? Like hell, I'm going to shoot you and say it was in self defense because I was "afraid for my life." Attack me, and even though I have disarmed you and have the ability to leave, I'm going *stand my ground* and mete out the punishment I think you deserve (as is being alleged by Zimmerman). As written, someone could see a someone hit their partner or their child and feel they are protecting others, also permitted in "SYG."
All because "afraid for my life" is and will always be, under this law, argued as very subjective. Without SYG, the general public knows they can't just whip out their trusty side arm and *defend* themselves and others with deadly force because *they* believe it is justified. It is a shitstorm waiting to happen, as we see in the Zimmerman case. He was licensed to carry a weapon (although with his history, he shouldn't have been issued the permit). When he got out of his car, he had every belief that he may need to "Stand His Ground." He went looking for trouble. Even if his intentions were good and to *protect* his neighbors. He could have just as easily protected his neighbors from his car, we all know that. Stand Your Ground provided him with a *reason* to justify what he did.
In theory, this law was made to make people feel safe. But at the end of the day, even though all laws are basically there to make us feel safe, often when put into practice, they create more problems than they create a feeling of safety. Because there will always be people like Zimmerman who feel they have the right to use whatever means necessary to *protect* the rights of others.
Does that make any more sense to you? If it doesn't, then I'm just going to have to try again after if I ever get some sleep (which doesn't seem to be forthcoming).
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RE: Petition: Tell Prison Fellowship: "Stand Your ... - 
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