RE: 450 Million Bullets

RE: 450 Million Bullets (Full Version)

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stef -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 11:42:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery People are missing the point, so I'll clarify... For precisely what the fuck does Homeland Security anticipate needing any high-performance bullets? It's marketing. Pretty much all JHP rounds used by law enforcement these days can be classified as "high-performance". Federal HST is used by many local, state and federal law enforcement agencies because it offers decent expansion and limits over-penetration. You're getting your knickers into a twist over nothing. There's nothing secret or sinister about any of this.

MrBukani -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 11:50:20 AM)
Thats a quotum for the next 5 years. Reduce the world population by 7%.

Kirata -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 1:42:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef You're getting your knickers into a twist over nothing. There's nothing secret or sinister about any of this. Obviously there's no "secret" about it. The story quotes a press release. But 450 million rounds is a helluva lot of ammunition for a domestic police agency. It's way more than training and normal operations would require having on hand; you don't waste high performance hollow-points for training and target practice; and there is no reason to stockpile that much ammunition unless you anticipate the possibility of needing it. So the question arises, what kind of scenario would require that kind of suppression? K.

littlewonder -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 2:04:46 PM)
Maybe they simply got a good deal and decided to take advantage of it for future use? Kinda the same as people will buy tons and tons of toilet paper when it's on sale at a really good price. No one's gonna use that much tp anytime soon but why not stock up for a cheap price? LOL

tj444 -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 2:46:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata So the question arises, what kind of scenario would require that kind of suppression? for the next round of OWS protests? or maybe they are anticipating mass riots if the R's win the next election.. [8\|]

Muttling -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 3:16:35 PM)
As a government contractor, I can shed some understanding on this contract to those who are willing to listen instead of wear tin foil hats...... IDIQ contracts such as this one aren't uncommon. They are a way for the government to set up bargain prices for things they need in large quantity, but have trouble giving a single large order to obtain. An IDIQ contract creates a list of items they can purchase as needed at prices set by the contract and gives an overall not to exceed amount for the contract. You can bet this contract includes pricing for a LOT more than just .40 caliber rounds. My guess is the IF the entire contract value was just spent on .40 caliber rounds it would give the numbers quoted. In reality, the government has put out for bid pricing on a bunch of small items under a single IDIQ contract and will purchase a wide variety of those items instead of sinking all of the funding into .40 caliber PISTOL rounds. What's more, it's unlikely that the contract will be funded to it's limit as the government seldom purchases the full amount allowed under IDIQ contracts. When you buy in massive bulk and try to deal with Federal procurement requirements (e.g. have to shop like the Federal government), it's a stupid waste of money to buy ammunition and other cheap items in quantities that are less than 1000 units (or sometimes 10,000 units) at a time. The IDIQ contract is a way for individual organizations in the government to buy small amounts of things like ammunition while still getting the cost savings of buying in bulk prices. I know it's not advertised in the press, but the Government DOES do a good job of shopping around for bargain prices on many things. It's the things they screw up and pay way too much for that make the news instead. Trust me when I say that the U.S. Government knows how to get small arms ammunition (e.g. pistol, rifle, and shotgun rounds) at bargain basement prices.

hardcybermaster -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 3:37:27 PM)
what kind of a fucking answer is that muttling? People don't want the truth or a common sense answer they want conspiracy and theory. You're no fun at all, Kirata posted a perfectly good bit of panic inducing bullshit and you have stopped it just like that. BOOOOOOOOOOOO

Kirata -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 3:57:45 PM)
nm

Kirata -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 3:59:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster You're no fun at all, Kirata posted a perfectly good bit of panic inducing bullshit and you have stopped it just like that. I'm sorry it scared you. I was just asking a question. Apparently your mind went somewhere wild with it. I apologize. Try to relax. K.

FullCircle -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 4:08:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery For precisely what the fuck does Homeland Security anticipate needing any high-performance bullets? Low or average performance bullets used to work fine until the BigMac and Fries was invented. I blame the parents.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 6:05:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Okay, I hate to fan the tinfoil-hat conspiracy flames but... Department Of Homeland Security Buying 450 Million Bullets [image]http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4f7321b4ecad04b26c000047/ice.jpg[/image] The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and its Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) office is getting an "indefinite delivery" of an "indefinite quantity" of .40 caliber ammunition from defense contractor ATK. U.S. agents will receive a maximum of 450 million rounds over five years, according to a press release on the deal. The high performance HST bullets are designed for law enforcement and ATK says they offer "optimum penetration for terminal performance." For precisely what the fuck does Homeland Security anticipate needing 450 million high-performance bullets? K. That's really only fewer than 2 million bullets per each if you consider there's only a few hundred of these guys.

tj444 -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 6:05:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling As a government contractor, I can shed some understanding on this contract to those who are willing to listen instead of wear tin foil hats...... IDIQ contracts such as this one aren't uncommon. They are a way for the government to set up bargain prices for things they need in large quantity, but have trouble giving a single large order to obtain. An IDIQ contract creates a list of items they can purchase as needed at prices set by the contract and gives an overall not to exceed amount for the contract. no doubt but.. why the friggin press release? The govt buys a lot of shite, does it send out press releases on all of them??? It seems to be an odd purchase to do that with.. or is it illogical to expect the govt to be logical? [8\|] [:D]

Muttling -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 7:12:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling As a government contractor, I can shed some understanding on this contract to those who are willing to listen instead of wear tin foil hats...... IDIQ contracts such as this one aren't uncommon. They are a way for the government to set up bargain prices for things they need in large quantity, but have trouble giving a single large order to obtain. An IDIQ contract creates a list of items they can purchase as needed at prices set by the contract and gives an overall not to exceed amount for the contract. no doubt but.. why the friggin press release? The govt buys a lot of shite, does it send out press releases on all of them??? It seems to be an odd purchase to do that with.. or is it illogical to expect the govt to be logical? [8\|] [:D] There's a press release with every major contract award. It's part of public notification requirements under Federal procurement regulations. This said, the government hasn't actually purchased anything yet. An IDIQ contract just establishes prices with which the government can purchase things. It's not uncommon for companies to with "blue ribbon" IDIQ contracts (e.g. contracts where you win but the government doesn't actually buy ANYTHING so all you get is the letter saying you won which we call the "blue ribbon.") You can go with a man who has done contracting with the government for 15 years or put the tin foil hat back on. Either way, this is my last response to this thread. Have a nice day.

Kirata -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 7:33:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling You can go with a man who has done contracting with the government for 15 years or put the tin foil hat back on. Either way, this is my last response to this thread. Have a nice day. Excellent. I hope you're a man of your word, because the way you've been insulting anybody who doesn't fall for your question-begging was starting to make me think this was becoming a religion thread. You have a nice day too. K.

jessica6 -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/30/2012 8:09:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery There's a third: the factory is in somebody's district. lol! there's one like twenty minutes from here, I went on a tour once, had to get security clearance :-p I'm not sure if they make the bullets there, I think the one near here they build the bigger stuff like tank shells to missiles, ATK makes like everything though

VanessaChaland -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/31/2012 12:16:46 AM)
Its just the continuation of the government contracts for quid pro quo. You elect me, I'll award you contracts.

tj444 -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/31/2012 7:16:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling There's a press release with every major contract award. It's part of public notification requirements under Federal procurement regulations. I expect any company that bids needs to know who they lost out to and at what price... and i expect the govt puts that on its website.. Maybe this was more a case of the press wanting something a little more sensational to report on.. bullets and what they can do to a person's body do tend to be a tad sensational.. ya know, compared to how many toilets they just bought..

DomKen -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/31/2012 7:53:20 AM)
There are 20k ICE employees. it's a 5 year contract. So that's 4500 rounds per ICE employee. I think it's safe to assume all ICE employees are not armed so assume say 7500 rounds/year/agent. That seems excessive but it is the top end of a contract meant to provide their ammo needs for at least the next 5 years. People who are frightened by big numbers are a bigger threat to the US than ICE.

Kirata -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/31/2012 8:32:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen There are 20k ICE employees. it's a 5 year contract. So that's 4500 rounds per ICE employee. I think it's safe to assume all ICE employees are not armed so assume say 7500 rounds/year/agent. That seems excessive but it is the top end of a contract meant to provide their ammo needs for at least the next 5 years. People who are frightened by big numbers are a bigger threat to the US than ICE. Yes, I'd say it seems excessive. Anticipating a possible need for thousands of agents to expend 7500 rounds of ammunition per agent per year suggests a scenario of some seriousness. But perhaps more troubling is the fact that some people are so frightened by anybody asking questions that they need to find some way to cast aspersions on their mental state or motives. K.

Musicmystery -> RE: 450 Million Bullets (3/31/2012 10:18:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen There are 20k ICE employees. it's a 5 year contract. So that's 4500 rounds per ICE employee. I think it's safe to assume all ICE employees are not armed so assume say 7500 rounds/year/agent. That seems excessive but it is the top end of a contract meant to provide their ammo needs for at least the next 5 years. People who are frightened by big numbers are a bigger threat to the US than ICE. People who miss the point concern me more. The DHS is nothing but theater. They don't need ANY bullets. They don't need personnel. They don't need funding. They are a paper tiger to create the illusion of doing something. That this something involves stocking up on ammo suggests the theater would like to be a threat. I'd rather they didn't go that route. But this genji is long out of the bottle, and we've going to have to learn to live with what our over-reactions have created.

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