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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 10:24:20 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Birth control prevents conception.


Um, no...

Birth control pills prevent implantation of the embryo in the Uterus.

Next time you want to correct someone on how Birth Control works...


How do birth control pills work?
    Here’s what it boils down to: birth control pills are made of hormones. Hormones are chemicals made in our bodies. They control how different parts of our bodies work. Some birth control pills contain two hormones — estrogen and progestin. These are called combination pills. Some are progestin-only pills. Most women on the pill take combination pills.

    The hormones in the pill work by keeping a woman’s ovaries from releasing eggs — ovulation.

    Pregnancy cannot happen if there is no egg to join with sperm. The hormones in the pill also prevent pregnancy by thickening a woman’s cervical mucus. The mucus blocks sperm and keeps it from joining with an egg. The hormones also thin the lining of the uterus. In theory, this could prevent pregnancy by keeping a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus.
Next time you want to correct someone, yanno?

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/9/2012 10:28:07 AM >

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 10:30:22 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		The pill works to prevent pregnancy, primarily, because it suppresses a woman's body from ovulating during her monthly menstrual cycle. If the ovary does not release an egg, then there is nothing there for a sperm to fertilize. The pill (and hormonal contraception) may also make the fallopian tubes less likely to move an egg toward the uterus. As mentioned above, the progestin-only pill may prevent ovulation for some women, but it may also not be consistently prevented by using these pills. Likewise, Mirena may stop some women from ovulating, but this is not the main way that Mirena works to prevent pregnancy.

The next way that hormonal contraception and the pill work is that they help to thicken the cervical mucus (the substance at cervix/opening of the uterus). This makes the mucus sticky, so when sperm try to get through the cervix, this sticky mucus makes it much harder for them to swim through -- thus making it more difficult to reach and fertilize the egg.

The final way that the pill works to prevent pregnancy has to do with the uterine lining. Hormonal contraceptives may cause changes to the lining of the uterus. The hormones in these methods can thin out or prevent the growth of uterine tissue. This may reduce the likelihood of implantation.

Hormonal contraception and the pill can work in any or all of these ways to prevent pregnancy. To be most effective, these methods must be used consistently and correctly. Hormonal contraceptives (on the whole) are between 92% - 99.9% effective. This means that of every 100 women who use hormonal contraception, 8 will become pregnant (with typical use) within the first year and less than 1 will become pregnant with perfect use (again, the exact percentages depend of the specific hormonal method as their effectiveness rates vary slightly - see: Effectiveness of Prescription Birth Control for specific rates).

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 4/9/2012 10:31:45 AM >

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 10:31:40 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Life begins at conception.


This is literally the stupidest fucking thing I have ever heard in my life, and with all those years touring with the Dead, you understand that I've heard some pretty fucking stupid things in my time.



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 10:32:25 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		They were both partly right.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 10:33:28 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Birth control pills prevent ovulation (at least, they did, back in the day) by releasing female hormones that convince the body that the woman is already pregnant.



I take back my earlier remarks. THIS is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. Where did you learn biology? A cub-scout meeting?

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 10:37:43 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Speculation? I suppose being in that field for over a decade, and working in the trenches with those Dr's would lead me to only be able to speculate... not.


I mean speculation in the terms of a PARTICULAR patient and legislation which pierces the doctor/patient relationship. As a provider and an advocate, sure we can talk about general biological principles, but things such as "What date the patient gets treated" and "Is that OK with my religious beliefs" just diminish the solemnity and respect due the patient/doctor relationship.

Does that help clarify things? I don't think we should argue "early-term"/"late-term" whatever because THOSE DETAILS are between the patient and the doctor. The doctor won't do anything unnecessary or without informed consent in the first place, so let's just draw an opaque curtain around the doctor's office and leave the specifics of what happens between the doctor and patient to them.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 10:39:25 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Birth control pills prevent ovulation (at least, they did, back in the day) by releasing female hormones that convince the body that the woman is already pregnant.



I take back my earlier remarks. THIS is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. Where did you learn biology? A cub-scout meeting?


Thank you for that insightful summary.

I retract my retraction. We're back to the original "stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard".

Sorry for any additional confusion.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 10:56:58 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Does that help clarify things? I don't think we should argue "early-term"/"late-term" whatever because THOSE DETAILS are between the patient and the doctor. The doctor won't do anything unnecessary or without informed consent in the first place, so let's just draw an opaque curtain around the doctor's office and leave the specifics of what happens between the doctor and patient to them.


I dont think anyone is arguing early vs late. However, there may be some who, while chasing that all mighty dollar (and its so obvious when it comes to plastic surgery) that they may attempt to provide late term without the medical reasons behind them. While I do not like thinking that way, it is a reality, and something that should be considered. Late term is considered past the age of viability. Early term abortion isnt even a term I have heard use.

I, more than most, trust the Drs to make the correct medical diagnosis in behalf of their patients. Peer and hospital reviews are something many people outside the field are not aware of. Charts go to risk management, everything is reviewed. As a nurse in that field, its reassuring. As a patient, it should be told more often.

But ignoring the fact that it could, potentially, lead up to problems if ignored and left "strictly" up to the Dr-patient, is also equally as wrong as prying into every woman's womb. There has to be a consensus at some point. And I believe, in the US, we have reached a consensus that no one wants to herald in an era when a 7 month old fetus is aborted for any reason beyond medical.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 4/9/2012 10:58:58 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 11:46:57 AM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		The world is full of tragic shit. But no amount of legislation is going to change that, and trying is just going to end up with a lot of bad 'edge case' legislation, like we see today.

I'm going to stick with not even bothering to discuss abortion, except in passing to mention that it's just one small part of comprehensive family planning/reproductive healthcare services.

"You're either Pro or Anti-Family-Planning" and "Everything that happens in a doctor's office is no business of anyone but the doctor and patient." at the actual patient level. If we want to discuss the biology behind why Anti-Family-Planners are fucking insane, we can do that all day long.

I figure that gives women the best possible insulation from those who oppose the freedom given to women by their ability to control their own lives.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 1:14:47 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Birth control pills prevent ovulation (at least, they did, back in the day) by releasing female hormones that convince the body that the woman is already pregnant.

They PREVENT conception.

Class dismissed.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


Re-read my material, and we are both half-right. They do prevent ovulation, they may thicken the mucus plug in the uterus preventing sperm from reaching the womb, and they also can prevent implantation. Or do you think the morning after pill taken 72 hours after sex finds a bunch of sperm swimming in circles and hands them a map that says "to the egg," but actually points them back to the vaginal opening?
By that time, the egg is fertilized, but birth control pills (morning after pill, triple dose of regular pills) can trick the woman's body into Menses, which will prevent implantation and expel the fertilized egg. Is that "Murder," or not?
Likewise, an IUD may prevent sperm from reaching the egg, or it may prevent implantation. Is getting an IUD premeditated murder?


Now, you're changing the parameters. You said birth control pills. You did not say "morning after".

Since I'm in a teaching mood, here we go:

What the Plan B pill does is to make the uterin wall acidic and prevent the fertilized egg from attaching.

While you're trying to paint me into a corner, I am in full support of the "Plan B" pill, also (as you know from another thread).

However, your actual statement was that birth control pills constituted murder and they don't.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 4/9/2012 1:15:18 PM >

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 2:57:38 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: yummee
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

Why so condescending and patronizing?

Name calling is considered an attack. You have no evidence I was either.

Wait, you can tell people they are just butthurt, but I can't call you on your condescension?


According to the Tazzy school of debating an attack isn't an attack if Tazzy thinks it's true.

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 3:25:09 PM   
tazzygirl


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_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 272
RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 7:05:29 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-mississippi-abortion-issue-20120406,0,4316068.story?track=lat-pick

Oh, that's right. They're still not happy that their slaves are free. So it's not surprising how they feel about woman's rights, is it?

And again, these "I continue to believe that every life begins at conception" retards don't even know enough science to know that the egg and sperm are both alive BEFORE conception. Fucking morons.

Anti-Family-Planning, because Family Planning gives women freedom.


Life begins at conception.

There's no debate.

Tons of conjecture.


If the egg and sperm are without question alive themselves, then how does "Life begin at conception?"

Do the sperm and egg die along the way, and zombie sperm and zombie eggs fuse to create the blastocyst?

This is just the same crazy talking-point, with no basis in reality.

And since there's no scientific basis for your belief founded on this extremist religious dogma, why don't you Join the rest of us in the 21st Century, where we know that life is a continuum.

Then maybe you can rephrase your position in terms which aren't insane.





A seed has life in it.....but it isn't "life" yet.

Water and soil have life as well....when it emerges...breaks through...it is life.

Same with sperm and egg.

Both have life within them...when they combine (water/earth/seed...and all the other "right" components)....it is life.

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/9/2012 8:42:47 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

A seed has life in it.....but it isn't "life" yet.

Water and soil have life as well....when it emerges...breaks through...it is life.


And when a birth occurs, breaking through from the womb into the world, and that first breath is taken, that first arm wave, the first movement, then it is a life.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/10/2012 5:53:48 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
A seed has life in it.....but it isn't "life" yet.


You might not have noticed this, being stuck in the 19th century and shit, but hominids don't come from seeds.

quote:


Water and soil have life as well....when it emerges...breaks through...it is life.


Water and soil are "matrices" which serve as environments for various lifeforms, yes. I don't know what you mean about 'when it emerges". Do you believe that fish and worms, for example, aren't alive while they're moving through water or soil respectively?

quote:


Same with sperm and egg.


The sperm and egg are not environments within various lifeforms make their homes, like soil and water.


quote:


Both have life within them...when they combine (water/earth/seed...and all the other "right" components)....it is life.


So, you're saying -- contrary to all scientific knowledge -- that the sperm and egg aren't living cells?

I think we might have a new "Stupidest Fucking Thing I've Ever Heard", and it's not even 9am yet.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/10/2012 8:10:16 AM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
A seed has life in it.....but it isn't "life" yet.


You might not have noticed this, being stuck in the 19th century and shit, but hominids don't come from seeds.

quote:


Water and soil have life as well....when it emerges...breaks through...it is life.


Water and soil are "matrices" which serve as environments for various lifeforms, yes. I don't know what you mean about 'when it emerges". Do you believe that fish and worms, for example, aren't alive while they're moving through water or soil respectively?

quote:


Same with sperm and egg.


The sperm and egg are not environments within various lifeforms make their homes, like soil and water.


quote:


Both have life within them...when they combine (water/earth/seed...and all the other "right" components)....it is life.


So, you're saying -- contrary to all scientific knowledge -- that the sperm and egg aren't living cells?

I think we might have a new "Stupidest Fucking Thing I've Ever Heard", and it's not even 9am yet.


No, Fargle, I think she's agreeing with us.
Sperm and Egg are alive, and when they "break through" (are born), it is life.
Plant a seed in the ground, it isn't a plant yet. Once the seed germinates and reaches the point that it can break the soil, it is a plant.
By that reasoning, until a fetus is born, it isn't a baby...

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/10/2012 8:10:28 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
A seed has life in it.....but it isn't "life" yet.

Water and soil have life as well....when it emerges...breaks through...it is life.

Same with sperm and egg.

Both have life within them...when they combine (water/earth/seed...and all the other "right" components)....it is life.


Um no, the sperm and egg are both living single celled organisms. Your position is just plain factually wrong.

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/11/2012 1:35:52 PM   
SadoDuncan


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Status: offline 		So softbonds, based on the beliefs of you and fargle, you are oppose to someone being charged with murder for assaulting a pregnant woman and the fetus does not survive or a double homicide for murdering a pregnant woman?

< Message edited by SadoDuncan -- 4/11/2012 1:40:05 PM >

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/11/2012 1:52:13 PM   
Edwynn


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Laws like that are already on the books in some states, more on the way. It's a backdoor stratagem to get around Roe-Wade, to establish 'personhood,' etc., and rightfully opposed for that reason. Now it's gone further with proposals for the mother being charged with murder if any of her actions could in any conceivable way could have possibly even if inadvertently induced a miscarriage, much flimsy pseudo-evidence allowed for that prosecution.

Do try to keep up.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/11/2012 1:56:54 PM >

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RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? - 4/11/2012 2:33:22 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadoDuncan

So softbonds, based on the beliefs of you and fargle, you are oppose to someone being charged with murder for assaulting a pregnant woman and the fetus does not survive or a double homicide for murdering a pregnant woman?


When you assault someone, that's assault. When you murder someone, that's murder.

Since the baby isn't it's own legal person, you are correct. It's not murder until it's a legal person. That happens at birth.

And since one charge of capital murder is enough to send you to the electric chair, why does your crazy religion compel you to charge it twice?

Of course, you shouldn't have ANY problem really with killing people, because aren't you just sending them back to Jesus anyway?
Of course, since you're "Pro-Life", you oppose capital punishment, right? So why bother even prosecuting murderers if all you do is warehouse them in comfort?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/11/2012 2:34:01 PM >

_____________________________

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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