RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 5:06:04 AM)

quote:

Don't forget that while Sarah Palin was mayor, Wasilla made women pay for their rape kits because a woman who reported a rape would get counseling that mentioned abortion, so to save the babies, it was decided to discourage rape reporting by charging the victims a few grand.


I heard that and then I heard this...

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/mccain-palin-and-rape-kits/

"A few weeks ago, we wrote about the pervasive rumor that Sarah Palin, when she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, made women pay for their own forensic testing when reporting a rape. The verdict: This policy was enforced for at least some reported rapes in Wasilla, and in 2000, complaints about rape kit charges in Wasilla and other rural areas drove then-Gov. Tony Knowles to pass legislation requiring police departments to pay for the testing. The Wasilla police chief opposed the new state law and defended the practice, saying that it avoided burdening taxpayers with the cost of testing. As for Palin’s role in the whole thing, it was unclear whether she ever supported the practice."





farglebargle -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 5:08:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

My objection to abortion is not based on religion; that's just another diversion since your last one didn't pan out.



If you're opposed to ending life, then it must be hard, since you can only eat things which fall out of trees, ( although eating nuts and fruit might be problematical, since every apple you eat would be multiple apple-tree abortions... ) or perhaps carrion which drops dead peacefully of natural causes due to old age?




farglebargle -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 5:10:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Don't forget that while Sarah Palin was mayor, Wasilla made women pay for their rape kits because a woman who reported a rape would get counseling that mentioned abortion, so to save the babies, it was decided to discourage rape reporting by charging the victims a few grand.


I heard that and then I heard this...

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/mccain-palin-and-rape-kits/

"A few weeks ago, we wrote about the pervasive rumor that Sarah Palin, when she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, made women pay for their own forensic testing when reporting a rape. The verdict: This policy was enforced for at least some reported rapes in Wasilla, and in 2000, complaints about rape kit charges in Wasilla and other rural areas drove then-Gov. Tony Knowles to pass legislation requiring police departments to pay for the testing. The Wasilla police chief opposed the new state law and defended the practice, saying that it avoided burdening taxpayers with the cost of testing. As for Palin’s role in the whole thing, it was unclear whether she ever supported the practice."




So... People don't think that investigating rapes is a legitimate use of police resources, and as such it's an OPTION you can choose to purchase?

Nice.




thishereboi -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 5:14:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Don't forget that while Sarah Palin was mayor, Wasilla made women pay for their rape kits because a woman who reported a rape would get counseling that mentioned abortion, so to save the babies, it was decided to discourage rape reporting by charging the victims a few grand.


I heard that and then I heard this...

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/mccain-palin-and-rape-kits/

"A few weeks ago, we wrote about the pervasive rumor that Sarah Palin, when she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, made women pay for their own forensic testing when reporting a rape. The verdict: This policy was enforced for at least some reported rapes in Wasilla, and in 2000, complaints about rape kit charges in Wasilla and other rural areas drove then-Gov. Tony Knowles to pass legislation requiring police departments to pay for the testing. The Wasilla police chief opposed the new state law and defended the practice, saying that it avoided burdening taxpayers with the cost of testing. As for Palin’s role in the whole thing, it was unclear whether she ever supported the practice."




So... People don't think that investigating rapes is a legitimate use of police resources, and as such it's an OPTION you can choose to purchase?

Nice.


That is certainly how it sounds. I wonder if they use the same reasoning if one of their ATV's gets stolen?




farglebargle -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 5:15:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

So... People don't think that investigating rapes is a legitimate use of police resources, and as such it's an OPTION you can choose to purchase?

Nice.


That is certainly how it sounds. I wonder if they use the same reasoning if one of their ATV's gets stolen?


CSI:Wasalia




kalikshama -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 5:26:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pghays04

It's not just about what is funded by taxpayers now. It is more about what some groups are trying to get the taxpayers to pay for.


Stop with this red herring.

Can someone help me with stats on how much anti-choice legislation was introduced in state legislatures since 2010? IIRC, it's upwards of 1,100 bills.

This article is from June 2011.

The Avalanche of Anti-American Tea Party Legislation Since 2010

o Anti-abortion Laws

Republican legislators have introduced a wide array of laws designed to either outlaw abortion outright or to discourage it by making ridiculous and sometimes humiliating requirements of women who might consider having a pregnancy terminated.
Rep. George Lavender, R-Texarkana, has proposed a bill (House Bill 2988) that would prevent any abortion except in cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother.
In Georgia, a bill (SB 209) sponsored by Sen. Barry Loudermilk, R-Cassville, would close all abortion clinics in the state and require abortions to be performed in hospitals
South Dakota wants to require “spiritual” counseling (House Bill 1217) at religious centers before allowing an abortion to take place. The bill was signed into law in March 2011 and challenged in court by Planned Parenthood and the ACLU in May.
The Texas State House of Representatives has passed the Sonogram Bill (HB 15), a measure requiring women to get a sonogram before ending a pregnancy, forcing even victims of rape to have a sonogram at least 24 hours before the procedure. Gov. Rick Perry has signed the bill into law, which takes effect September 1, 2011. There are exceptions in cases of rape and incest.
Georgia State Representative Bobby Franklin has introduced a bill that would not only make abortion illegal but would make miscarriages illegal.
Indiana (House Bill 1210) wants to force doctors to lie to women about abortion causing breast cancer despite medical evidence to the contrary in order to discourage women from having abortions
Rep. Chris Smith (R-N.J.) introduced a bill in the U.S. House of Representatives, the “No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act,” (HR 3) that would limit the rape exemption for abortion to “forcible rape” which would have defined many rapes, for example, statutory rape of a minor, as non-forcible and therefore not covered by federal assistance. Mother Jones has reported another aspect of this legislation, that the IRS would be turned into abortion-cops: “Were this to become law, people could end up in an audit, the subject of which could be abortion, rape, and incest,” says Christopher Bergin, the head of Tax Analysts, a nonpartisan, not-for-profit tax policy group. “If you pass the law like this, the IRS would be required to enforce it.”
Representative Joe Pitts (R-PA) introduced a bill (HR 358) would allow states to deny insurance coverage for birth control meaning hospitals could deny abortion procedures and transport to a facility that would provide a woman with an abortion even if failure to provide an abortion would mean the death of the woman
· Louisiana State Rep. John LaBruzzo, R-Metairie wants to sentence both women and doctors who commit this crime the ban to 15 years hard labor. The law would make no exceptions for cases of danger to the health of the mother, incest or rape.
The U.S. House of Representatives passed (by a 234-182 vote) an amendment sponsored by Virginia Foxx (R-NC) prohibiting teaching hospitals from receiving federal funding if they teach doctors how to perform abortions. Unfortunately, as a result of this legislation new physicians will not receive the training needed to save women’s lives. As Correntewire.com puts it, “234 members of the House voted to ban the teaching of medical procedures that are vital in saving the lives of women who have miscarried, or have complications that endanger their health, or who aren’t even pregnant.”
In Ohio, Janet Porter’s “Heartbeat Bill” criminalizing abortion and which was backed by Newt Gingrich and Michele Bachmann, passed the Ohio State House on June 28, 2011. “It prohibits abortions after only about six weeks, a time when many women do not yet even know they are pregnant,” said Armond Budish, leader of the Democratic caucus in the House.
Also in Ohio, The state budget, approved June 28, 2011 by the Senate, bars state hospitals from performing abortions.
Mother Jones reports that “Every abortion provider in the state of Kansas has been denied a license to continue operating as of July 1 [2011].” This is the result, according to Mother Jones, of passage in April of a law “directing the Kansas Department of Health and Environment to author new facility standards for abortion clinics, which the staunchly anti-abortion GOP governor, Sam Brownback, signed into law on May 16.”
On July 1, 2011 a budget impasse shut down the government of the state of Minnesota. The Republican majorities in the house and senate refuse to negotiate in good faith, insisting that a list of social issues be included in the budget, including abortion restrictions.
In Arizona, the House of Representatives passed House Bill 2443 sponsored by Republican Rep. Steve Montenegro, on February 21, 2011. The bill, if passed into law, would criminalize abortions being performed because of the race or sex of the fetus. Montenegro claims that “there are targeted communities that the abortion industry targets.” If made law, HB 2443 would require that “women seeking abortions in Arizona will have to sign a statement declaring that race or sex was not the reason they sought the procedure.”

o Arguing that it is “morally wrong to take the tax dollars of millions of pro-life Americans and use them to fund organizations that provide and promote abortions,” Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind, introduced a bill (HR 217) in the U.S. House of Representatives to strip Planned Parenthood of federal funding, despite the many other services Planned Parenthood provides to both men and women, including contraception and STD testing

o Legalizing the Murder of Abortion Doctors
South Dakota flirted with a law to make the murder of an abortion doctor legal as self-defense
When South Dakota was forced to drop the idea of murdering abortion doctors, Nebraska and Iowa picked up the idea

o “Personhood Laws” and Fetal Rights

Seven states are now considering laws that would give fertilized eggs the rights of “personhood” – in other words, fertilized eggs would have the same rights as you or me – a blatant ploy to attack women’s reproductive rights.
In Iowa a pregnant woman was arrested for falling down a flight of stairs. Yes, for falling down a flight of stairs. You see, following a fight on the phone with her husband, Christine Taylor fell down a flight of. Like any responsible pregnant woman would, she went to the hospital to check on the fetus – and was arrested thanks to one of the many state laws that grant fetuses rights separate from the mother. Iowa has a “feticide” law that pertains to the second trimester and beyond, and since Taylor confessed that she had contemplated abortion but had chosen to have the baby, the nurse and doctor at the hospital decided to phone the police and accuse her of trying to terminate her pregnancy illegally. She was fortunate not to be charged with a crime – for falling down the stairs.
Nebraska banned abortions after 20 weeks on the unscientific grounds that fetuses feel pain at that gestational age. Shortly thereafter, Danielle Deaver discovered at 22 weeks she had a pregnancy that could not result in a living baby. Yet Nebraska law denied her an abortion. Nebraska is not alone, and Deaver will not be alone. Legislators in 12 other states — Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, New Mexico and Oregon — are considering similar laws. But banning abortion could not save Deaver’s fetus: With undeveloped lungs, the baby likely would never survive outside the womb, and because all the amniotic fluid had drained, the tiny growing fetus slowly would be crushed by the uterus walls. On Dec. 8, Deaver delivered 1-pound, 10-ounce Elizabeth, who, as doctors had predicted, lived for only 15 minutes outside the womb.
Idaho is the latest state, inspired by Nebraska’s example, to put such a law on the books. Senate Bill 1165 bans abortion after 20 weeks but leaves no loophole even for cases of rape. Their justification? The bill’s House sponsor, state Rep. Brent Crane, R-Nampa, told legislators that the “hand of the Almighty” was at work. “His ways are higher than our ways,” Crane said. “He has the ability to take difficult, tragic, horrific circumstances and then turn them into wonderful examples. And Rep. Shannon McMillan, R-Silverton says, “Is not the child of that rape or incest also a victim?” asked “It didn’t ask to be here. It was here under violent circumstances perhaps, but that was through no fault of its own.”[...]
On February 11, 2011, the North Dakota House of Representatives passed House Bill 1450; a bill which seeking to define a fertilized egg as a human being. As Planned Parenthood reports, “HB 1450 is backed by a national activist group, Personhood USA, working to make North Dakota the epicenter of a heated national debate.”
The Oklahoma House of Representatives voted 94 to 2 to a ban on abortion’s later than 20 weeks of gestation similar to Nebraska’s in what it called the “Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act.” Bill 1888 will go on to the state Senate.
A personhood bill in Louisiana sponsored by Republican State Rep. John LaBruzzo that would have banned all abortions in the state was defeated when a House vote sent it to the House Appropriations Committee, which shelved the measure. This is not the end, however, as this fall a referendum on a personhood amendment.

The War on Special Supplemental Nutritional Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)

o Having ensured that children will be born through their anti-abortion legislation, House Republicans have now ensured those children will be deprived of proper nutrition once they come into the world, ensuring that 300,000 millionaires will have more money in their pockets at the expense of nearly 500,000 women and children. Republicans on the House Appropriations Committee approved the appropriations bill which reduces WIC funding from $6.73 billion this year to $5.90 billion in 2012. The bill will also cut $38 million from the Commodity Supplemental Food Program (CSIP), as well as $63 million from the Emergency Food Assistance Program (TEFAB). If the Republicans had been truly interested in slashing the federal budget they could have saved more money by ending tax cuts for the rich or slashing subsidies to the oil companies. Instead they starve the infants and elderly. Why do I say that? WIC could be fully funded at the cost of just one week of Bush’s tax cuts for millionaires. According to the Center for American Progress, “one day’s worth of millionaire tax cuts would feed needy families for a year.”

Read more: http://www.politicususa.com/the-avalanche-of-anti-american-tea-party-legislation-since-2010/




Edwynn -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 6:41:51 AM)


Wow fargle, did you read all that? Sure are a LOT of states all over the place not happy their slaves are free, innit?

Sic 'em boy!









tazzygirl -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 7:05:33 AM)

quote:

Since one can "advocate the protection of human embryos and fetuses on the grounds that it is taking of a human life" while still understanding there are instances (such as medical risk to the mother) that at least some compromise may be necessary, there is no reason to believe one can't be pro-life while accepting the necessity for exceptions.

And since the basis of hypocrisy is that it is a pretense, and those pro-lifers who admit the need for exceptions are demonstrating what they believe with no pretense, your charge of hypocrisy has no merit.


My charge of hypocrisy is very founded. Look at Santorum and his stand against abortions. Yet, when it affected his own family, he and his wife admitted they both were giving it heavy consideration.

Pro life.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

Try that "they arent hypocritical" charge again. They are, in fact, pro choice, as long as you agree with THEIR choice.




tazzygirl -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 7:11:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Don't forget that while Sarah Palin was mayor, Wasilla made women pay for their rape kits because a woman who reported a rape would get counseling that mentioned abortion, so to save the babies, it was decided to discourage rape reporting by charging the victims a few grand.


I heard that and then I heard this...

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/mccain-palin-and-rape-kits/

"A few weeks ago, we wrote about the pervasive rumor that Sarah Palin, when she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, made women pay for their own forensic testing when reporting a rape. The verdict: This policy was enforced for at least some reported rapes in Wasilla, and in 2000, complaints about rape kit charges in Wasilla and other rural areas drove then-Gov. Tony Knowles to pass legislation requiring police departments to pay for the testing. The Wasilla police chief opposed the new state law and defended the practice, saying that it avoided burdening taxpayers with the cost of testing. As for Palin’s role in the whole thing, it was unclear whether she ever supported the practice."





quote:

Wasilla clearly had the policy. Bloggers have portrayed it as a heartless rule seeking money from rape victims, but they have neglected to mention that the policy seems to have been aimed more at getting money from insurance companies than from victims.

We can’t find that Palin ever commented on the policy, pro or con. But as mayor, she indirectly endorsed it by approving city budgets that relied on the revenue. So we find the bloggers' charge to be Half True.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/sep/22/palin-rape-kit-controversy/




Truthness -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 8:38:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My charge of hypocrisy is very founded. Look at Santorum and his stand against abortions. Yet, when it affected his own family, he and his wife admitted they both were giving it heavy consideration.



You're moving the goalposts. Your claim was that the act of calling yourself pro-life while allowing some exceptions was hypocrisy. That was the claim that was without merit, as I have shown.

Picking instances where individuals have shown hypocrisy for one reason or another does not validate your faulty claim.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 8:59:47 AM)

I don't see where "giving [something] heavy consideration" but, in the end, opting to stick to your personal beliefs is hypocrisy.

Where I come from, we call that a "crisis of faith"



Peace and comfort,



Michael




Truthness -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 9:21:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I don't see where "giving [something] heavy consideration" but, in the end, opting to stick to your personal beliefs is hypocrisy.

Where I come from, we call that a "crisis of faith"



That too, but Tazzy is bad enough about going off on tangents unrelated to the initial point so I was trying to contain it there.




tazzygirl -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 10:09:32 AM)

quote:

That too, but Tazzy is bad enough about going off on tangents unrelated to the initial point so I was trying to contain it there.


Ah, just as I thought. Who are you? Everyone outs themselves eventually.

But to respond to your charge of moving goalposts. I never set any. I said pro lifers are hypocrits, and have backed up my statements. But, since you wish to get all bogged down into definitions...

Pro-life

adjective
opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prolife

Pro-Life is the self-description for those in North America and Great Britain who are of the general political opinion that abortion is morally wrong and should not be legal.

To some, "Pro-Life" is a loaded term: it contains the connotations that people who oppose the political opinions it describes are against "life" and are in favor of "death", in particular in the death of an "unborn child". Both "Pro-Life" and "Pro-Choice" are examples of political framing: they are terms which purposely try to define their philosophies in the best possible light, while by definition attempting to describe their opposition in the worst possible light (being anti-life or anti-choice). Because of this, it is often criticized as being "inaccurate" by its critics, who note that some of those who call themselves "Pro-Life" are in support of capital punishment, a potential contradiction (those who label themselves as "Pro-Life" generally do not see it as such).


http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Pro-life

pro-life noun against abortion, antiabortion, antiihetic to abortion, diametrically opposed to abortion, hossile to abortion, in favor of barring abortion, in favor of life, in favor of prohibiting abortion, in opposition to abortion, inimical to abortion, opposed to abortion, pro-human life, right-to-life advocate

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Prolife

Definition of PRO-LIFE

: opposed to abortion

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pro-life

pro-life - definition

believing that pregnant women should not be allowed to have an abortion

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/pro-life

adjective

opposing the legal right to obtain an abortion

http://www.yourdictionary.com/pro-life

All those definitions, since you are so fond of definitions... hypocritical.




Truthness -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 10:21:15 AM)

Wrong. I already demonstrated why.




tazzygirl -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 10:38:35 AM)

How can definitions be wrong... they cant. People can apply a word wrongly, which is what your survey showed.

Only 23% of those were "prolifers", the rest agreed to legal abortions in some cases, making them not "prolife" by the very definition of the word. Applying that word to themselves either shows their hypocrisy or their ignorance of the term.

No matter how much you want others to believe otherwise. [;)]




Truthness -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 10:44:12 AM)

If someone is pro-sports...then someone makes a sport that has a high fatality rate and that person disagrees with it, that does notmake that person automatically no longer pro-sports.

Likewise, someone who is Pro-life can still understand the necessity for exceptions to their beliefs...this does not automatically make them no longer believe abortions are a bad thing.

Applying the word "hypocrisy" to those people shows your ignorance of the term.

No matter how much you want others to believe otherwise.




tazzygirl -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 11:03:23 AM)

quote:

Likewise, someone who is Pro-life can still understand the necessity for exceptions to their beliefs...this does not automatically make them no longer believe abortions are a bad thing.


Then they should have chosen a better word and definition for their belief.

quote:

Applying the word "hypocrisy" to those people shows your ignorance of the term.


The term as defined is what I base my use of that word upon. But, of course you will ignore that simply because it makes your opinion as hypocritical as theirs.

You do not have to agree with me. Enough people already do.




Truthness -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 11:09:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Then they should have chosen a better word and definition for their belief.


I actually agree, but since I didn't chose the word, and it's been used long enough to have a definition in the dictionary that most are capable of understanding, I see no reason to not use it now.


quote:

The term as defined is what I base my use of that word upon. But, of course you will ignore that simply because it makes your opinion as hypocritical as theirs
.

I already demonstrated why there is no hypocrisy there.




outhere69 -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 11:34:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

Here is a simple solution:
ATell the women they are getting abortions.
Once the woman is under, pull the premie out, put him in an incubator, save his/her life.
Woman goes home none the wiser, and once the kid is old enough to survive without the expensive machines, you can adopt him/her out, since there is so much demand for babies.
Of course, if you are not willing to do this, then you are pretty much just demanding the state spend money for your wants, which kinda sounds communist and lefty to me...

We don't have abortion on demand. You can't get an abortion in the 3rd trimester (which coincides with viability) under Roe v Wade unless there's harm to the mother.

RE: article on pain perception. They said "late in gestation", which isn't 8 weeks.

Abortion was legal right into the early 20th century. Without reliable birth control for women, abortion WAS family planning for mothers who knew they couldn't afford more children, etc. The methods and doctors were common knowledge among women of the family (grandmothers, mothers, aunts, etc.) Men were usually involved only for finding a doctor for the resulting sepsis/hemorrage and on a few occasions, paying for the abortion. Abortion was simply part of life for much of history in the US.




tazzygirl -> RE: Go Fuck Yourself, Mississippi. Why do you hate women? (4/8/2012 11:48:52 AM)

quote:

I actually agree, but since I didn't chose the word, and it's been used long enough to have a definition in the dictionary that most are capable of understanding, I see no reason to not use it now.


Of which the definition means... against abortion. Allowing abortion even in the case of maternal life is contrary to the definition. Therefore, hypocrisy.




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