"The problem doesn't exist"

"The problem doesn't exist" (Full Version)

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truckinslave -> "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 8:16:26 AM)
John Stedman is going to be very upset.... Really hilarious voter I.D. video: Project Veritas

DaddySatyr -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 8:26:10 AM)
Yeah, we don't need laws requiring people to prove that they're eligible to vote. No one is talking about changing the voting requirements; just that people prove that they meet them. If this isn't a good indication (especially the Eric Holder part) that ID laws are needed, I don't know what possibly could be. The "mole" even suggests that he should go and get his ID and the poll worker poo-poos the idea. I wish common sense was a requirement for voting/working for the FEC or SEC. Peace and comfort, Michael

mnottertail -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 8:37:23 AM)
It is fucking stupid. a republican primary. Cant the republicans come up with somebody who has enough brains to pour piss out of a boot?

Hillwilliam -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 8:39:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Cant the republicans come up with somebody who has enough brains to pour piss out of a boot? I wish to hell they could but, unfurtunately, the answer seems to be no.[&o]

Musicmystery -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 8:59:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Cant the republicans come up with somebody who has enough brains to pour piss out of a boot? I wish to hell they could but, unfurtunately, the answer seems to be no.[&o] That's because those people would be rinos.

PatrickG38 -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 9:04:31 AM)
In fairness, Mitt Romney is a highly intelligent man.

Hillwilliam -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 9:30:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Cant the republicans come up with somebody who has enough brains to pour piss out of a boot? I wish to hell they could but, unfurtunately, the answer seems to be no.[&o] That's because those people would be rinos. No, they would be Fiscal conservatives who had their head out of their ass, cared about the country and didn't feel like that had to kowtow to the Bible Beaters........................ Yah, you're right, Rinos.

SoftBonds -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 9:51:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Yeah, we don't need laws requiring people to prove that they're eligible to vote. No one is talking about changing the voting requirements; just that people prove that they meet them. If this isn't a good indication (especially the Eric Holder part) that ID laws are needed, I don't know what possibly could be. The "mole" even suggests that he should go and get his ID and the poll worker poo-poos the idea. I wish common sense was a requirement for voting/working for the FEC or SEC. Peace and comfort, Michael Here I think is the ultimate question: Is it better to prevent a person from voting who has the right to vote, or allow someone to vote fraudulently. My argument would be that both are equally bad, as they both shift the vote by one. Therefore the question becomes, which is more likely. The overwhelming evidence is that vote fraud is rare, and that laws that require proof of eligibility that exclude things like student ID's stop far more legal voters than illegal voters. So you create a less accurate vote with voter ID laws than without. However, if you don't care about that since the folks whose legal right to vote you are stopping are voting for the other party, then these laws are great! Oh, and BTW, saying "They can go and get an ID" while ignoring the time and cost of doing so is a great way to put your head in the sand like an Ostrich.

DaddySatyr -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 9:57:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds The overwhelming evidence is that vote fraud is rare, ... I'd ask that you watch the video that the OP posted and tell me how many fraudulent voters could vote at that polling place. I'd like to see your "overwhelming evidence" about how rare voter fraud is. Don't give me how many people are denied the right to vote (for now). Give me this overwhelming evidence. I'll even help you out: According to Vice President Gore's people, there was a huge amount of it in Florida in 2000. Start there. I'll need to see records of actual arrests or, at least criminal voter fraud charges being filed (algore's civil actions won't count). Peace and comfort, Michael

mnottertail -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 10:02:17 AM)
give me the overwhelming evidence it is not rare. a disingenuous staged for hysteria clip by a group of some teabaggers would not be considered by anyone to be overwhelming evidence of anything execpt joetheplumberism.

DesideriScuri -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 12:11:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Yeah, we don't need laws requiring people to prove that they're eligible to vote. No one is talking about changing the voting requirements; just that people prove that they meet them. If this isn't a good indication (especially the Eric Holder part) that ID laws are needed, I don't know what possibly could be. The "mole" even suggests that he should go and get his ID and the poll worker poo-poos the idea. I wish common sense was a requirement for voting/working for the FEC or SEC. Peace and comfort, Michael Here I think is the ultimate question: Is it better to prevent a person from voting who has the right to vote, or allow someone to vote fraudulently. My argument would be that both are equally bad, as they both shift the vote by one. Therefore the question becomes, which is more likely. The overwhelming evidence is that vote fraud is rare, and that laws that require proof of eligibility that exclude things like student ID's stop far more legal voters than illegal voters. So you create a less accurate vote with voter ID laws than without. However, if you don't care about that since the folks whose legal right to vote you are stopping are voting for the other party, then these laws are great! Oh, and BTW, saying "They can go and get an ID" while ignoring the time and cost of doing so is a great way to put your head in the sand like an Ostrich. Shouldn't students vote in their home districts? All they need do is request an absentee ballot. The Brennan (Brannan?) Tax Center was linked to info showing that up to 10% of the voting age public don't have ID's. That isn't 10% of Registered Voters, which isn't even the same as 10% of likely voters. How many people does a voter ID law actually effect? Time and cost of an ID? http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/03/24/152765/ohio-voter-id-law/ quote: In just eight days, House Republicans hustled through HB 159, a bill that would require voters to show one of five forms of ID to vote in person: an Ohio driver’s license, state ID, military ID, U.S. passport, or “a new, free photo ID that State Bureau of Motor Vehicles would dispense to indigent citizens who qualify.” Currently, voters must show a photo ID or present a utility bill, bank statement, paycheck or government document with a current name and address. Unlike other states’ photo ID laws, HB 159 would not even allow students to use IDs issued by state colleges. But, but, but, but...but nothing. The law says that Citizens have the right to vote. If you aren't a Citizen, you do not have the right to vote. I wonder how we could figure out who is and who isn't a Citizen, easily.

DomKen -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 1:11:29 PM)
So let me get this straight. A right wing felon filmed a co conspirator stealing the US AG's identity and this is supposed to be proof of anything beyond why O'Keefe and friend should be in prison?

SoftBonds -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 3:12:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Yeah, we don't need laws requiring people to prove that they're eligible to vote. No one is talking about changing the voting requirements; just that people prove that they meet them. If this isn't a good indication (especially the Eric Holder part) that ID laws are needed, I don't know what possibly could be. The "mole" even suggests that he should go and get his ID and the poll worker poo-poos the idea. I wish common sense was a requirement for voting/working for the FEC or SEC. Peace and comfort, Michael Here I think is the ultimate question: Is it better to prevent a person from voting who has the right to vote, or allow someone to vote fraudulently. My argument would be that both are equally bad, as they both shift the vote by one. Therefore the question becomes, which is more likely. The overwhelming evidence is that vote fraud is rare, and that laws that require proof of eligibility that exclude things like student ID's stop far more legal voters than illegal voters. So you create a less accurate vote with voter ID laws than without. However, if you don't care about that since the folks whose legal right to vote you are stopping are voting for the other party, then these laws are great! Oh, and BTW, saying "They can go and get an ID" while ignoring the time and cost of doing so is a great way to put your head in the sand like an Ostrich. Shouldn't students vote in their home districts? All they need do is request an absentee ballot. The Brennan (Brannan?) Tax Center was linked to info showing that up to 10% of the voting age public don't have ID's. That isn't 10% of Registered Voters, which isn't even the same as 10% of likely voters. How many people does a voter ID law actually effect? Time and cost of an ID? http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/03/24/152765/ohio-voter-id-law/ quote: In just eight days, House Republicans hustled through HB 159, a bill that would require voters to show one of five forms of ID to vote in person: an Ohio driver’s license, state ID, military ID, U.S. passport, or “a new, free photo ID that State Bureau of Motor Vehicles would dispense to indigent citizens who qualify.” Currently, voters must show a photo ID or present a utility bill, bank statement, paycheck or government document with a current name and address. Unlike other states’ photo ID laws, HB 159 would not even allow students to use IDs issued by state colleges. But, but, but, but...but nothing. The law says that Citizens have the right to vote. If you aren't a Citizen, you do not have the right to vote. I wonder how we could figure out who is and who isn't a Citizen, easily. I love how only the indigent get a free id, and you say there is no cost. BTW, you like hanging out at the DMV until they have time to serve you? But you are right, every citizen has a social security card, use that!

TrekkieLP -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 3:19:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr No one is talking about changing the voting requirements; just that people prove that they meet them. Really? We already have laws that say that people who don't have state-issued photo ID can't vote? :)

DaddySatyr -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 3:24:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds I love how only the indigent get a free id, and you say there is no cost. BTW, you like hanging out at the DMV until they have time to serve you? But you are right, every citizen has a social security card, use that! I know there's been some changes over the years but my card reads: "Not to be used for identification purposes" The problem with a SS card (aside from the fact that government promised us it wouldn't be a way of turning us into nothing more than numbers and that's exactly what it's become) is that there are no photos on them. I want to know that the person claiming to be Mr. Xxxxxxxxxx is, indeed, that person (to the best of my ability). I happen to know for a fact that there are people that regularly share their SS cards with their friends for illicite purposes. It's a stupid thing to do but it does get done. If a person isn't indigent, why would requiring them to pay $11.00 for a state issued ID be an issue? Honestly, I think that it comes down to the fact that voter fraud is probably a lot more prevailant than some people are willing to admit and I can't help but think that the people that won't admit that are probably convinced that the voter fraud provides them with some sort of advantage. If you truly love this country, why wouldn't you vigorously defend the rights that are reserved only to citizens of it? Surely, you don't want foreign nationals deciding how our government is to run? If you do, I would posit that if you love those foreign nationals so much, perhaps you should go to their country to live. That way, you can convince that country that you should have a say in their government and you can leave American citizens to decide how to govern themselves. Peace and comfort, Michael

mnottertail -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 3:31:12 PM)
Ja, I don't know how many times I have thought just that --- all them goddamn finlanders voting in a strictly norwo-american election. When teabaggers are interested in saving this country and defending our rights by damning the corporations are people, quit the borrow and spend, quit bloating and servile appeasement and capitulation to the military industrial complex, quit making war on our middle class, lower class and women; minorities, then maybe we will entertain some of the sky is falling sky is falling bullshit, to humor us and you.

TrekkieLP -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 3:33:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Time and cost of an ID? Well, I recently spent over a year, and around $150, getting photo ID for my Mother. (She has Alzheimer's, so I had to do it for her. I intentionally let her Driver's License expire, because she thinks she can still drive.) Now, her case no doubt wasn't typical. I had a lot of trouble getting her birth certificate from Oklahoma, because apparently her maiden name is spelled differently on her birth certificate. OTOH, my mother isn't homeless, either. She has a fixed address, where she's lived for the past 20 years. She (I) have a phone, email. I even got a fax machine for the house so I could fax documentation back and forth. So, when it comes to getting state-issued ID, Mom had some disadvantages. But she had some advantages over some people, too.

TrekkieLP -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 3:39:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr If a person isn't indigent, why would requiring them to pay $11.00 for a state issued ID be an issue? Well, there's The time and expense of getting a copy of a birth certificate. W-2 forms, or some other document showing your SSN. Recent utility bills or bank statements, showing your address. If you don't have utility bills in your name, then signed forms from the person who does have the utility bills in his name. But, once you do all that, THEN it's just $11 (and the time, and a trip to the office) to get the ID.

PatrickG38 -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 3:52:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So let me get this straight. A right wing felon filmed a co conspirator stealing the US AG's identity and this is supposed to be proof of anything beyond why O'Keefe and friend should be in prison? Exactly. The irony is that people not voting is a serious problem. No one cares enough to vote who is not eligible which is why there is no voter fraud except for right-wing pranksters. Hopefully O'Keefe is finally thrown in jail. Americans are so stupid. Thanks Fox.

DaddySatyr -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/9/2012 3:56:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Ja, I don't know how many times I have thought just that --- all them goddamn finlanders voting in a strictly norwo-american election. When teabaggers are interested in saving this country and defending our rights by damning the corporations are people, quit the borrow and spend, quit bloating and servile appeasement and capitulation to the military industrial complex, quit making war on our middle class, lower class and women; minorities, then maybe we will entertain some of the sky is falling sky is falling bullshit, to humor us and you. No, Ron. It's not the Finlanders and you know damned well it isn't. It's the illegal aliens. It's the 9 people in Florida, arrested for voter fraud in 2010(Collecting absentee ballots for people and filling them out for them, etc.) for a fucking school board election. It's "get out the vote" drives that register anyone and everyone so that they have lots of extra names on the rolls to fake more ballots. I had a couple of these people come to my door, once and I decided to fuck with them. I didn't need any ID. I didn't need anything at all except to open my door and tell them my name. Now, while that may not exactly be agregious, it's a little too "willy-nilly" for my tastes. No, I think voting rights should be almost as regulated as gun ownership. I'm not talking about excluding convicted felons or psychiatric patients (as gun laws do) but, I think we should know that the person coming to cast a ballot is really that person, not someone who is paid by one of the political parties to drive to different districts and use different names to "punch up the numbers". I'm really a bit surprised that you're so willing to just let any ol' Tom, Dick or Harry that may not be allowed to vote break the law. After all, weren't you making a lot of noise about the FDLE not following the law. I guess it's a fluid thing? Peace and comfort, Michael

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