RE: "The problem doesn't exist"

RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (Full Version)

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joether -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 5:50:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri But, but, but, but...but nothing. The law says that Citizens have the right to vote. If you aren't a Citizen, you do not have the right to vote. I wonder how we could figure out who is and who isn't a Citizen, easily. Its called 'EVIDENCE'. You make an "ACCUSATION" to a member of the 'LAW ENFORCEMENT" that 'so-and-so' is not whom them claim to be and/or claim to live at the address. Why should I have to show an ID? I state who I am and where I live. If someone wishs to state that one of those two is untrue, its up to them to produce the burden of proof, not myself. Why should I have to subject myself to being searched against my will? Isn't there an Amendment that talks about this in the US Constitution? From all that I have seen, voter fraud taking place in this country is below the 5% mark. But if we were to believe the GOP, that number would be as high as 30%. Its typical for conservatives to throw down the 'Fear' Card about as often as Sharpton and Jackson through the 'Race' Card.....

farglebargle -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 6:01:22 AM)
Can you imagine the actual law-enforcement ass-reaming which would have ensued has this nitwit actually committed voter fraud?

mnottertail -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 6:13:11 AM)
quote: Yeah, ACORN sure does seem to come up, a lot. But it is more than just that... quote: Mirable Dictu! A 'get out vites and petitions organization shows up alot...' Much as you would expect issues of little consequence in chicken little the sky is falling genre with anecdotal joetheplumberisms to show up in people who borrow and spend and set us on the edge of bankruptcy who are told to go down there and fix their fuckups (but are inept) would show up aligned with teabaggers and neo-cons.

Real0ne -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 8:06:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri But, but, but, but...but nothing. The law says that Citizens have the right to vote. If you aren't a Citizen, you do not have the right to vote. I wonder how we could figure out who is and who isn't a Citizen, easily. Its called 'EVIDENCE'. You make an "ACCUSATION" to a member of the 'LAW ENFORCEMENT" that 'so-and-so' is not whom them claim to be and/or claim to live at the address. Why should I have to show an ID? I state who I am and where I live. If someone wishs to state that one of those two is untrue, its up to them to produce the burden of proof, not myself. Why should I have to subject myself to being searched against my will? Isn't there an Amendment that talks about this in the US Constitution? From all that I have seen, voter fraud taking place in this country is below the 5% mark. But if we were to believe the GOP, that number would be as high as 30%. Its typical for conservatives to throw down the 'Fear' Card about as often as Sharpton and Jackson through the 'Race' Card..... in wisconsin you can drop by from claifornia hang out for a couple weeks and vote. Milwaukee a few years ago had more votes counted in one district than there were voters. Once upon a time it used to be land owners that voted and everyone knew who they were. Now its more profitable for everyone to vote.

Real0ne -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 8:10:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne yeh but someone has to be literally in a political coma to say something liek that in the first place LOL http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/08/ohio-voting-machines-contained.html So far 2010 has been a banner year for ACORN voter fraud prosecutions. In Milwaukee, former ACORN worker Maria L. Miles, who worked with Clancy, pleaded guilty to “falsely procuring voter registration.” She will be sentenced next month. In Washington state, ex-ACORN canvasser Kendra Lynn Thill was convicted of voter registration fraud and given a 12-month deferred sentence. In Pennsylvania, former ACORN workers Alexis Givner, Mario Grisom, and Eric L. Jones, were convicted of voter registration fraud-related offenses. All three were sentenced to two years probation The trial of ACORN for conspiracy to commit felony voter registration fraud was scheduled to begin Nov. 29, but ACORN lawyer Lisa Rasmussen had a scheduling conflict and the proceeding has been postponed. The trial will likely proceed in 2011. Hafen won’t be heading the prosecution’s team because he was recently elected a justice of the peace. Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/11/23/the-voter-fraud-hall-of-shame-milwaukee-voter-fraud-conviction-makes-acorn%e2%80%99s-2010-total-at-least-15/#ixzz1rbb6WCg6 Diebold voting machines can be hacked by remote control Exclusive: A laboratory shows how an e-voting machine used by a third of all voters can be easily manipulated http://www.salon.com/2011/09/27/votinghack/ oh wait that cant be right, conspiracies never happen in america! LOL Yeah, ACORN sure does seem to come up, a lot. But it is more than just that. There's an intertesting article by Roger Hedgecock and a fellow (Andy Pierotti) down in Tampa on television news exposed a little scheme where people who are not citizens have either been voting for years or are registered to vote, the elections board shows they voted, but they say they have never voted. This reporter broke this story two days after the Tampa Bay Times ran an article that voter fraud "doesn't exist". How were their names found? Comparing jury duty excuses to voter registration rolls. You see, under the 1992 Motor Voter Act, officials are not allowed to ask people to prove citizenship, when they are registering to vote. The act was also designed to get as many welfare recipients as possible registered which is fine but, we all know that not all registered voters actually vote (at least, not themselves). In a lawsuit, initiated by ACORN to defend the Motor Voter Act, who do you suppose was one of the people standing with Acorn? I'll give you a hint: He was born in "Hawaii" and attended a Christian school and his registration paperwork listed him as a Muslim. Peace and comfort, Michael tell me its not so! LOL yeh in waukesha and the walker ordeal one woman was forced to step down for improprieties. as long as there are electronic voting machines, voting is a complete waste of time. at least we can take solice knowing we have a british president who will save us from ourselves.

RacerJim -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 8:22:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PatrickG38 It is really simple. One party encourages democratic participation, one discourages it. Not complicated at all. It is indeed really simple. One party encourages voter fraud, the other party discourages it. Not complicated at all.

DomKen -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 8:22:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I don't do peoples' research for them, anymore. I gave two examples a few posts back (one involved 9 people in Florida in 2010 in an election where one person got 72% absentee ballots). You're claiming the Madison case is vote fraud? This is what the 9 involved are accused of: Having absentee ballots sent to a PO Box. They are not accused of filling out the ballots themselves, as a matter of fact the FDLE has stated that the accused took the ballots to the voters and waite while they filled them out and them took them and mailed them to the appopriate election official. So what should they get for helping citizens vote? the chair? Maybe just life without parole?

RacerJim -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 8:30:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 At some point....if the cons keep using this fake issue to keep Americans from voting.....we`re going to have to have another voting rights act. Seems to me that voting is one of the most basic rights we have and that great efforts should be made to make sure as many Americans as possible get to participate in the democratic process. Voting is indeed one of the most basic rights we have, therefore great efforts should be made to make sure that as many Americans as possible do not have their votes offset by those who can't prove they have the right to vote.

mnottertail -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 8:32:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: PatrickG38 It is really simple. One party encourages democratic participation, one discourages it. Not complicated at all. It is indeed really simple. One party encourages voter fraud, the other party discourages it. Not complicated at all. Since Bush had filed a lawsuit to stop the Florida recount in 2000, (never a presidential candidate prior to that has), and gave the ambulance chaser that filed it for him a Supreme Court job, I am going to assume that you speak of republicans and voter fraud. Since the felon at the republican primary and the election official at the republican primary were in cahoots to commit vote fraud, and caught on tape..... Thank you for your efforts to uncomplicate the issue for us. We see it clearly now.

RacerJim -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 8:47:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: PatrickG38 It is really simple. One party encourages democratic participation, one discourages it. Not complicated at all. It is indeed really simple. One party encourages voter fraud, the other party discourages it. Not complicated at all. Since Bush had filed a lawsuit to stop the Florida recount in 2000, (never a presidential candidate prior to that has), and gave the ambulance chaser that filed it for him a Supreme Court job, I am going to assume that you speak of republicans and voter fraud. Since the felon at the republican primary and the election official at the republican primary were in cahoots to commit vote fraud, and caught on tape..... Thank you for your efforts to uncomplicate the issue for us. We see it clearly now. Since the DNC/Gore campaign filed all sorts of challenges to prevent military absentee ballots from being counted in Flordia in 2000 (never a political party/candidate prior to that had), and filed the first law suit re recounts wanting recounts only in overwhelmingly Democratic districts (as opposed to State-wide), and Democrats comprised the majority of Florida's Election Board in 2000, and every recount showed Bush as the winner, it's obvious that you can't handle the truth.

DaddySatyr -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 8:55:25 AM)
Voter Fraud HuffPo Black Voices quote: ORIGINAL: from the article While lawyers for Crumitie and the others arrested in Florida -- a group that came to be known in local civil rights circles as the Madison 9 -- declined to give details of what their clients allegedly did, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement said the charges were clear cut. Crumitie was charged with four felony counts of voter fraud and one count of providing a false report to law enforcement authorities, according to the FDLE. and ... quote: ORIGINAL:from the article Henderson, who is white, took a 53 percent majority among voters in the runoff election, while Johnson had 72 percent of the absentee votes, according to the Sunshine State News account pulled from an affidavit for Johnson's arrest. The story went on to say that *a poll worker told investigators there were several instances where voters arrived at the polls only to find out they had already voted. And another voter who arrived to find that he had already cast a ballot told investigators that "Tina Johnson had brought him a ballot and helped him vote because he didn't understand it." ... and ... quote:* According to the FDLE, the investigation revealed that Johnson, her husband and others approached prospective voters and asked them to sign an absentee ballot request form. Then an alternate address, one other than the person's own, was written on the form without their consent. The ballots were never mailed to the registered voters, the FDLE has said. The Johnsons retrieved the ballots from the third party locations, brought the ballots to the voter, waited for the person to vote, and then returned the ballots to the Supervisor of Elections, according to a release on the FDLE website. In some instances, it said, the voters were only presented with the absentee ballot signature envelope to sign and never received the actual ballot to cast their vote. Johnson, 43, was charged with 10 counts of fraud in connection with casting votes, and two counts of absentee ballots and voting violations. Her husband Ernest Sinclair Johnson, Jr., 45, was charged with 11 counts of fraud in connection with casting votes, one count of corruptly influencing voting, and one count of perjury by false written declaration, according to the FDLE. Jada Woods Williams, 34, Madison County Supervisor of Elections, was charged with 17 counts of neglect of duty and corrupt practices for allowing the distribution of these absentee ballots, contrary to Florida state statute. I count: 24 counts of "fraud in connection with casting votes" 2 counts of absentee ballots and voting violations. 1 count of corruptly influencing voting 1 count of perjury by written declaration 1 count of providing a false statement to Law Enforcement 26 counts of voter fraud/misconduct. Yeah, not a problem, at all. Peace and comfort, Michael

mnottertail -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 8:56:55 AM)
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html http://www.janrainwater.com/htdocs/absentee.htm Learn to read, Gore did no such thing, only Bush did.

erieangel -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 8:58:03 AM)
quote: 26 counts of voter fraud/misconduct. Out of how many millions of votes cast? Gotta put it in perspective. Like I said in an earlier post, I have a better of winning the lottery than having my identity stolen by somebody wishing to cast a fraudulent ballot.

SoftBonds -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 9:11:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Voter Fraud HuffPo Black Voices quote: ORIGINAL: from the article While lawyers for Crumitie and the others arrested in Florida -- a group that came to be known in local civil rights circles as the Madison 9 -- declined to give details of what their clients allegedly did, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement said the charges were clear cut. Crumitie was charged with four felony counts of voter fraud and one count of providing a false report to law enforcement authorities, according to the FDLE. and ... quote: ORIGINAL:from the article Henderson, who is white, took a 53 percent majority among voters in the runoff election, while Johnson had 72 percent of the absentee votes, according to the Sunshine State News account pulled from an affidavit for Johnson's arrest. The story went on to say that *a poll worker told investigators there were several instances where voters arrived at the polls only to find out they had already voted. And another voter who arrived to find that he had already cast a ballot told investigators that "Tina Johnson had brought him a ballot and helped him vote because he didn't understand it." ... and ... quote:* According to the FDLE, the investigation revealed that Johnson, her husband and others approached prospective voters and asked them to sign an absentee ballot request form. Then an alternate address, one other than the person's own, was written on the form without their consent. The ballots were never mailed to the registered voters, the FDLE has said. The Johnsons retrieved the ballots from the third party locations, brought the ballots to the voter, waited for the person to vote, and then returned the ballots to the Supervisor of Elections, according to a release on the FDLE website. In some instances, it said, the voters were only presented with the absentee ballot signature envelope to sign and never received the actual ballot to cast their vote. Johnson, 43, was charged with 10 counts of fraud in connection with casting votes, and two counts of absentee ballots and voting violations. Her husband Ernest Sinclair Johnson, Jr., 45, was charged with 11 counts of fraud in connection with casting votes, one count of corruptly influencing voting, and one count of perjury by false written declaration, according to the FDLE. Jada Woods Williams, 34, Madison County Supervisor of Elections, was charged with 17 counts of neglect of duty and corrupt practices for allowing the distribution of these absentee ballots, contrary to Florida state statute. I count: 24 counts of "fraud in connection with casting votes" 2 counts of absentee ballots and voting violations. 1 count of corruptly influencing voting 1 count of perjury by written declaration 1 count of providing a false statement to Law Enforcement 26 counts of voter fraud/misconduct. Yeah, not a problem, at all. Peace and comfort, Michael OK, again I ask, is it better to prevent a valid voter from voting, than to allow a fraudulent vote? My answer, they are equally bad, so we should balance each VOTE equally. In other words, if to prevent TWENTY-SIX fraudulent votes, we make THOUSANDS, Tens of thousands, or HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of legitimate voters unable to vote, are we really doing anything for democracy? Or are the folks whose votes you are preventing voting against you, so you are happy to suppress their votes? BTW, how do you feel about the frequent Republican tactic of telling new voters (younger voters are more likely to vote for the Democrat) that voting is on Wednesday (the day after the election)? How do you feel about Republican robo-calls at 3 AM to swing voters designed to seem like they come from the Democrat? Or is that kind of voter fraud just peachy?

Real0ne -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 10:41:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds OK, again I ask, is it better to prevent a valid voter from voting, than to allow a fraudulent vote? nah its easier this way: Hacking Democracy Main article: Hacking Democracy A nonprofit organization founded by Harris, Black Box Voting, was invited by Ion Sancho, Leon County, (Florida) Supervisor of Elections to conduct a series of tests election of Diebold's GEMS central tabulator and Diebold's optical scan voting machines. The tests took place February 14, 2005; May 2, 2005; May 26, 2005 and December 13, 2005 and allege to prove that Diebold machines were not secure and could be hacked and results altered.[6] Her work to expose security weaknesses in electronic voting systems was assisted by Kathleen Wynne and is featured in an HBO documentary, Hacking Democracy. The film follows a series of investigations, many of them captured live on videotape by Kathleen Wynne. Harris discovered that counterfeit audit records[7][unreliable source?] had been provided to Black Box Voting in a public records request. Harris subsequently found some of the original records in the garbage at a Volusia County warehouse. Florida Fair Elections Coalition founder Susan Pynchon and Broward Election Reform Coalition founder Ellen Brodsky found more original poll tapes in the garbage behind the Volusia County elections office.[citation needed] Harris, Wynne, and Andy Stephenson audited the originals against those given out by Volusia County in public records requests. Data on several of the poll tapes found in the garbage did not match data on the tapes provided in public records; many key audit items were missing, and unusual errors (such as a date-stamps 16,000 years in the future on one tape) indicated the alterations appeared to be due to alterations in programming the device that produces the poll tapes. Harris, Wynne and Emmy-nominated Hacking Democracy Researcher/Producer Russell Michaels, arranged for a series of hacking demonstrations on the "GEMS" central tabulator and also the hacking of memory cards. The finding of the records in the trash, along with the hacks, can be viewed in the HBO documentary "Hacking Democracy," which premiered November 2, 2006.[6] Other investigations In March 2006, a nonprofit organization founded by Harris, Black Box Voting, was contacted by elections official Bruce Funk, from Emery County, Utah. Black Box Voting again secured the services of Harri Hursti and Dr. Herbert Hugh Thompson and examined the Diebold TSx touch-screen (DRE) system. Hursti, Thompson, and a member of the Black Box Voting board of directors, Jim March, found flaws which prompted emergency warnings and last minute corrective actions in Pennsylvania, California, and other states.[8][9][10] Harris's investigations into the testing labs that examine voting system software were revealed in a hidden camera interview in the HBO film "Hacking Democracy"; she also obtained test lab reports which showed that the Ciber Laboratories omitted security testing on the machines.[11][unreliable source?] Harris also identified and broke the story on the criminal records of a number of individuals who owned, programmed, and printed ballots in the elections industry.[12][unreliable source?][13][unreliable source?][14][15] [edit] Diebold lawsuit Together with Jim March, Harris filed a whistleblower lawsuit alleging that Diebold Election Systems had made false claims when selling their system to Alameda County, California. Diebold paid the state of California $2.6 million to settle the case,[16] and paid approximately $76,000 to Harris, which she donated to the nonprofit Black Box Voting organization.[17] VoteHERE investigation She has been served with four cease and desist notices and in 2004, was interviewed by the US Secret Service Cybercrime Task Force five times in connection with a claim by the VoteHere company that their site had been "hacked" with their source code stolen. In connection with this, Harris received a gag order from a U.S. Attorney in preparation for a federal grand jury investigation. An article by The Seattle Weekly covered this. The 'Hursti Hack' forms the climax of the film and proved for the first time that votes stored on Diebold's memory cards can be changed undetectably. In fact our ground breaking hack was scientifically proven to be completely true. California's Secretary of State commissioned a special report by scientists at UC Berkeley to investigate the Hursti Hack.

DaddySatyr -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 10:45:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds OK, again I ask, is it better to prevent a valid voter from voting, than to allow a fraudulent vote? My answer, they are equally bad, so we should balance each VOTE equally. In other words, if to prevent TWENTY-SIX fraudulent votes, we make THOUSANDS, Tens of thousands, or HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of legitimate voters unable to vote, are we really doing anything for democracy? Or are the folks whose votes you are preventing voting against you, so you are happy to suppress their votes? BTW, how do you feel about the frequent Republican tactic of telling new voters (younger voters are more likely to vote for the Democrat) that voting is on Wednesday (the day after the election)? How do you feel about Republican robo-calls at 3 AM to swing voters designed to seem like they come from the Democrat? Or is that kind of voter fraud just peachy? NO voter fraud is okay with me. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Not only should we not be the world's policemen but we shouldn't be their nursemaid's either. If you allow voting fraud to exist, you denegrate elctions. People will really start to believe that their votes mean nothing (and rightfully so). It's the first step back to Tamminy Hall or Chicago under Daley (Sr.). Ya know, I understand that as adults; we can find ourselves on different sides of issues and I am prepared to admit that there's more than one valid viewpoint but your view on this issue as you have just stated is silly, short-sighted and (in my mind) completely indefensible. You're advocating a course of action that could, quite literally, bring down the election process, entirely. I can no longer take you seriously on this issue. I'm sorry. You're a decent guy but in this instance, based upon this last post, you're so far from the the field that I can't even respect your viewpoint. Peace and comfort, Michael

mnottertail -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 10:55:05 AM)
Yup, you know, with the massive debt and brink of bankruptcy and no jobs and a dismal future, I guess nobody is going to respect your viewpoint either, it is an faux outrage that is rather hysterical in comparison.

DaddySatyr -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 10:58:56 AM)
But, the current Oval Office Employee has fixed the economy. He cut the deficit in half. He ended the Iraq war within a year of taking office. His econimic stimulus plan (which was partially a continuation of King George II's fucked up policy) was a great success. Jobs are returning to our country and everyone loves each other. Peace and comfort, Michael

mnottertail -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 11:04:11 AM)
If thats what a libertarian believes, I hope you aint spreading that shit on youtube too, as well though....we have enough of those.......

DaddySatyr -> RE: "The problem doesn't exist" (4/10/2012 11:07:16 AM)
Feel free to debate me there (if you have the gonads). If you just want to ridicule and continue contrarian behavior, I understand, entirely. Peace and comfort, Michael

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