quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

You went wrong when you described it as playing a role. It isn't. Submissive is my authentic self, I am not dominant. Hell, I'm not even capable of topping. And I pity the poor person who would sub to me, to be asked anxiously if it hurt too much, are they okay, and so on. Every two minutes.

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ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

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ORIGINAL: Karmastic
Where along these two extremes do you fall? Assuming it's one or the other, don't you see room for both? Is a switch really "better", or just more empathetic? Is a true blood dom or sub really any more or less devoted than a switch filling that role?

I used to be a dyed in the wool 100% submissive. Then, somewhere along the way, I started to be curious about & feel like switching. I did so and then I found out that it didn't work so well. The Dom I had at the time kept trying to control things, including me, which went over very shittily. Then I found that, over time, I was becoming more Dominant and not wanting to put up with that controlling me crap, so here I am, a Domme. And I'm happy being one.

NBMG

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ORIGINAL: Focus50

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ORIGINAL: Karmastic

I posted this here because I think it applies to everyone, switches, doms, and subs, and all can give their own perspective.

I think it's safe to say for any complimentary relationship, that playing the other role helps one understand it better, and compliment that role when playing it's opposite. Switches, I get that, and happen to agree.

Then there's the other side that says how can you be the truest true blood dom or sub if you don't devote yourself to that role. Reminds me of Spartans and Ninja warriors, and certainly resonates with me.

Where along these two extremes do you fall? Assuming it's one or the other, don't you see room for both? Is a switch really "better", or just more empathetic? Is a true blood dom or sub really any more or less devoted than a switch filling that role? Does experimenting or being flexible by offering to switch pollute one role? That view reminds me of a sleeping with the enemy perspective.

My take on it - I used to wish I was bi-sexual, so that I could have twice as many options (and fun). But hairy bodies and cocks never turned me on. Now I sort of wish I was a switch. Sort of because I'm careful what I wish for.

As Elvis Costello put it, what's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

Your "other side" implies you're talking two halves of the one whole - and it just ain't...!

I'm a Dom, I don't switch - and that's *my* truth. For those who think you have to submit to appreciate your domliness; well that's their truth - and a whole lot of bunk to me.

Same as my hetero needs. A female complements that aspect of my sexuality and that's all the inside info I need to know. You sayin' we fellas need to spend time in a dress and heels, maybe some lippy etc, so we can be real men, too? pffft...!

And just so I'm clear.... There are those who are all Dom/me and those who are all sub. So no, a switch doesn't have all the insight to both as you may think. No-one can be 200% of a whole. Switches have *some* insight and what you get is generally what you've got for them to respond to. The (admittedly few) switches I've known r/l sure weren't showing any signs of domliness when I was talking to them.

So who's really most comfortable in their own skin? Not them (perhaps?) - and not you, it seems to me.... What you have here is a personal issue, not a lifestyle philosophy! Hmmm, two issues, from the sounds of that bi comment....

Focus.

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ORIGINAL: Bhruic

My personal opinion is - and common sense dictates - that someone who explores both sides of a coin has more understanding of the whole coin than someone who only looks at one side.

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ORIGINAL: RaspberryLemon

I don't think this is one-size-fits-all. Some people are better off and benefit from experiencing both sides of the dominant/submissive spectrum, and others don't need it. Neither way is superior or correct in the grand/general sense. I don't even think that one who experiences both is necessarily always more empathetic. It's an individual thing, some will benefit from it and some will not.

For me personally, I've never needed to try being dominant or in charge, because that's just not who I am in relation to the man I love. I understand him perfectly well, not because I've ever tried to be him, but because he is my Master, the one I love, and we have an intimate connection facilitating plenty of communication and intense empathy. Switching just isn't necessary, nor desired. And him? Likewise, he understands perfectly well the effects his leadership has on me, for those same reasons. He doesn't need to be me to understand me, either.

So it's all relative. It matters only on the individual scale.

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ORIGINAL: Karmastic

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

You went wrong when you described it as playing a role. It isn't. Submissive is my authentic self, I am not dominant. Hell, I'm not even capable of topping. And I pity the poor person who would sub to me, to be asked anxiously if it hurt too much, are they okay, and so on. Every two minutes.

Thanks for observing a great point and where I was ambiguous. I agree, it's much more than a role for m2, it's who I am. I used the word "role" too loosely, partly because I imagine for the switches, it is one of two or more roles they play, as they empathetically tailor themselves to their partner. That really cuts to the heart of one side's argument, that it's not as good cus it's a role being played. I can't reconcile that view.

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ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
I posted this here because I think it applies to everyone, switches, doms, and subs, and all can give their own perspective.

I think it's safe to say for any complimentary relationship, that playing the other role helps one understand it better, and compliment that role when playing it's opposite. Switches, I get that, and happen to agree.

Then there's the other side that says how can you be the truest true blood dom or sub if you don't devote yourself to that role. Reminds me of Spartans and Ninja warriors, and certainly resonates with me.

Where along these two extremes do you fall? Assuming it's one or the other, don't you see room for both? Is a switch really "better", or just more empathetic? Is a true blood dom or sub really any more or less devoted than a switch filling that role? Does experimenting or being flexible by offering to switch pollute one role? That view reminds me of a sleeping with the enemy perspective.

My take on it - I used to wish I was bi-sexual, so that I could have twice as many options (and fun). But hairy bodies and cocks never turned me on. Now I sort of wish I was a switch. Sort of because I'm careful what I wish for.

As Elvis Costello put it, what's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

where are you getting this shite from? switches are "better"??? wtf? imo switches are inferior,.. they cant make up their friggin mind what they are.. jmo..

I am not interested in switches or subs or bi-sexual men..

me thinks you have been gazing at your navel too long.. go out and enjoy the sunshine..

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ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Incidentally, your post said to me, "I can't stop thinking about this stuff, but I haven't met anyone in real life yet to ground my ideas in reality." I think you need to meet some people. A lot of these issues suddenly become simpler, and yet more complex, if that makes any sense.

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a su

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

I posted this here because I think it applies to everyone, switches, doms, and subs, and all can give their own perspective.

I think it's safe to say for any complimentary relationship, that playing the other role helps one understand it better, and compliment that role when playing it's opposite. Switches, I get that, and happen to agree.

Then there's the other side that says how can you be the truest true blood dom or sub if you don't devote yourself to that role. Reminds me of Spartans and Ninja warriors, and certainly resonates with me.

Where along these two extremes do you fall? Assuming it's one or the other, don't you see room for both? Is a switch really "better", or just more empathetic? Is a true blood dom or sub really any more or less devoted than a switch filling that role? Does experimenting or being flexible by offering to switch pollute one role? That view reminds me of a sleeping with the enemy perspective.

My take on it - I used to wish I was bi-sexual, so that I could have twice as many options (and fun). But hairy bodies and cocks never turned me on. Now I sort of wish I was a switch. Sort of because I'm careful what I wish for.

As Elvis Costello put it, what's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

My perspective is that ME, trying to be submissive, feels wrong and just makes me very angry. If tried long enough, I get depressed and withdraw into myself. It's a survival mode and nothing more. It sure as hell isn't a way to live life. Been there, done that, and have great gaps in memory to prove it. As soon as I escaped that relationship I began to bloom again. At first tentitively, then with more and more confidence. Today, if for some catastrophic reason, I had to try and go back to that mindset it would hell. I am strong enough I know I could do it, especially if the lives of those I love depended on it, but it would be a role for me. And misery.

Being a dominant person, only wanting a power exchange relationship of this sort, with a woman, is who I am. I COULD top a man in BDSM play but it wouldn't do anything for me. The only relationship I can tolerate with a man is one of mutual respect, vanilla, less sexual and yet with a power based tipped slightly in my favour. I have that. It is with one of the few men, if not only man, I have ever respected and fully trusted in all ways. I sincerely doubt there will ever be another regardless of this one's life span. My sexuality is primarily inspired by women and 99.999% of men do not interest me in that way, at all. It's just the way I'm built.

I've a good friend that is a switch. 99.999% of her relationships are lesbian and with her as the dominant partner. Her daughter's father was the only male she has had a sexual relationship with. I am the only dominant person she ever has had a submissive relationship with.

You see Karma, it's not always black and white. Some of us can honestly say that it's taken some life and living to come to an understanding of what fulfills us, fits us, best. It doesn't mean we haven't tried other things or that there isn't the possibility of other things, but working with our experiences, we have a pretty fair idea of what will work best for us........NOW.

Some people seem to come out of the gate, just knowing, and never really deviated from that path. They follow it and are happy and fulfilled with it. Others spend a lifetime wandering around, visiting other paths, maybe even following a completely different one for awhile. Not really feeling any need to remain limited to any one way. Knowing that there are multiple paths available to them, given the right circumstances. Others of us, were shoved down one, trudged on because it was expected, just doing what was required. Not happy but not really understanding why. Then one day, had the great fortune to see that there are MANY optional paths and decided to test a few of them out until they found one that felt more like home.

Another thing to consider, human beings are not always stagnant beings. A life path that a person can, quite happily follow for a period of time can begin to not fit. That person has grown and some of the wants and needs have changed with that growth. I believe one of the previous posters mentioned a similar experience in her life. Change and relationship dynamics are either inspired from within and our own growth and change, other people and how they affect us, but usually a combination of both.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bucephalus

My view is live and let live. If being a switch works for someone and their relationship with another(s), so be it. What does effect anyone outside their personal circumference? I know I'm much happier being on top rather than the bottom, and doubt I could be comfortable in that role in a D/s relationship. I've felt like I *had* to be the 'bottom' in a previous (vanilla of course) relationship, and it really didn't suit me. It sort of made me feel like shit because I wasn't able to feel confident about being me in that situation. I don't think a switch should be condemned for enjoy it both ways, much like a bisexual shouldn't be condemned or called confused in what they want. You like what you like. If it happens to be both, more power to ya. Now, that said, I do think a switch does have the potential to be more empathetic toward each role, having likely experienced both sides of it. They are able to see things in both lights.

quote:

My view is live and let live. If being a switch works for someone and their relationship with another(s), so be it. What does effect anyone outside their personal circumference? I know I'm much happier being on top rather than the bottom, and doubt I could be comfortable in that role in a D/s relationship.

I don't think a switch should be condemned for enjoy it both ways, much like a bisexual shouldn't be condemned or called confused in what they want. You like what you like. If it happens to be both, more power to ya. Now, that said, I do think a switch does have the potential to be more empathetic toward each role, having likely experienced both sides of it. They are able to see things in both lights.

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ORIGINAL: Lucifyre

meh,

Bi Switch....I am not confused, just greedy ;)

Lucifyre

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ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I guess I'm not sure I even recognize this continuum you're talking about. I don't think I fit into any of the boxes you've described. Or, more accurately, I think I'm pretty much everywhere on that continuum all at the same time.

My own assessment is that people's performance in a role mirrors that whole "99% perspiration, 1% inspiration" line. Carol may naturally have a worldview that lends itself to obedience... that's the 1%. The 99% perspiration is actually obeying. I have a fairly dominant viewpoint pretty much all the time. But you can bet that if I decided that obedience was the best route then I'd be wanting to do a good job of it.... much like Carol.

Really, when all is said and done, I get in relationships with people, not with labels.

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ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I'm not sure which hypothesis you are referring to? If I am expounding any particular single idea, it is that the broader ones spectrum of experience, the greater ones knowledge and understanding. I wouldn't call that a hypothesis though. It is borne out in human experience as an empirical fact.

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

The more time I spend on an adult BDSM site watching people reason the spiritual depths of what they are, the more I feel like I'm in the wrong place altogether. Get over yourself guys, dominance and submission really doesn't make you all that special!

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

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ORIGINAL: Karmastic

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

You went wrong when you described it as playing a role. It isn't. Submissive is my authentic self, I am not dominant. Hell, I'm not even capable of topping. And I pity the poor person who would sub to me, to be asked anxiously if it hurt too much, are they okay, and so on. Every two minutes.

Thanks for observing a great point and where I was ambiguous. I agree, it's much more than a role for m2, it's who I am. I used the word "role" too loosely, partly because I imagine for the switches, it is one of two or more roles they play, as they empathetically tailor themselves to their partner. That really cuts to the heart of one side's argument, that it's not as good cus it's a role being played. I can't reconcile that view.

You know, when I took on the role of motherhood I didn't do so lightly. I mean, it wasn't some game or something I was just when my children were around. It is a permanent and very natural role, at least to me.
Why would a dominant or submissive role be any more valuable? That valuable in fact that it shouldn't be demeaned by calling it a 'role'
The more time I spend on an adult BDSM site watching people reason the spiritual depths of what they are, the more I feel like I'm in the wrong place altogether. Get over yourself guys, dominance and submission really doesn't make you all that special!

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ORIGINAL: Karmastic

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ORIGINAL: Lucifyre

meh,

Bi Switch....I am not confused, just greedy ;)

Lucifyre

yep! I wish I could have those desires and be greedy myself.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

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ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I'm not sure which hypothesis you are referring to? If I am expounding any particular single idea, it is that the broader ones spectrum of experience, the greater ones knowledge and understanding. I wouldn't call that a hypothesis though. It is borne out in human experience as an empirical fact.

I would love a link to information that gives your opinions credence as fact. Specifically in how it applies to personal relationships.

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ORIGINAL: Karmastic
I don't think calling it a role is demeaning, and believe the word is neutral

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ORIGINAL: JeffBC

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ORIGINAL: Karmastic
I don't think calling it a role is demeaning, and believe the word is neutral

It is... in a sociological sense. But my observation of lifestyle discussions is that the word "role" is always attached to "playing" as in "roleplaying".

Honestly, even independent of that I'm not sure I'd use the word "role" to describe myself. I am dominant (in the way I conceive of that word). When I refer to myself as dominant I'm referring to the lens through which I view the world and most or all of my interactions in it. It would be like saying I am "color blind" -- it's that basic. If affects everything else. And if you are color blind, there is no way you can see colors. You might be able to imagine them, but you cannot see them.

That is vastly different than the roles I occupy throughout my life in a sociological sense. They are not "role playing". Rather, they are me taking the tools available to me in my base personality and deploying them in a given situation. Accordingly, one of my roles is as Carol's owner. If my marriage changed and suddenly it was more beneficial for me to be wearing the collar then I'd have a new role. But that would not change my base personality in any way. It wouldn't make me suddenly "not color blind".

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ORIGINAL: Karmastic

Great answer and thoughts - made me think a lot. What you said about cross dressing made me think (and I know you didn't mean it in any gay context, which cross dressing is not), is that to be a better lover as a man, one doesn't need to go have a gay experience. I think the concept is stepping into their shoes, to better know what they want. But that doesn't mix with "I know who the F I am and what I want".

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ORIGINAL: Karmastic
Thanks for observing a great point and where I was ambiguous. I agree, it's much more than a role for m2, it's who I am. I used the word "role" too loosely, partly because I imagine for the switches, it is one of two or more roles they play, as they empathetically tailor themselves to their partner. That really cuts to the heart of one side's argument, that it's not as good cus it's a role being played. I can't reconcile that view.

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ORIGINAL: Bhruic
LadyPact... My comment was not meant to be taken personally, or as a judgement of you or any particular person. I was just responding to your opinion. I just don't personally think that there are many GOOD Doms who are inflexibly Dom because they are so smart that they automatically understand the the needs and situation of people who are in roles that they themselves would never consider exploring. That's all... and yes, it is a personal opinion :) But personal opinions seem to be the stock in trade here.

As to bottoming, I don't hold the personal opinion that you have to bottom to every sensation at least once, by several different tops to figure out that you don't like bottoming in general.  Maybe there is some magic number that everybody can agree that are enough times to qualify that a person doesn't like the experience.