RE: Bullying... the results

RE: Bullying... the results (Full Version)

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joether -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 1:38:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: When I was in middle school I had no one. I was picked on routinely until someone pushed me too far. A few bruised jaws and a weight-lifting class later -- no one fucked with me anymore. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4096444 No problems on my end... you seem to forget what you write. Oh no...the problem is still on your end. Read that sentence carefully. I stated I was picked on in middle school until I was pushed too far. I never stated the weight-lifting class was in middle school, merely that after it, no one messed with me anymore. In other words, it's what's called making a long story short. I saw no reason to detail an intricate timeline for people who wouldn't read it anyway. Reading comprehension is your friend, well...apparently not yours, but most people's. You can state it how you wish, DM. What you wrote implies that you took up weight-lifting classes in middle school. If that is untrue, its not Tazzy's or my fault; Your original post was not made clear enough. If we were to post the original message as a poll, and ask when the person voting thought you took up weight-lifting classes, I believe most would state 'Middle School'. As you give no evidence you took up such a class at any other time in your education. Finally, insulting people for your mistakes is a bit....over the line....

DarqueMirror -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 1:54:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether You can state it how you wish, DM. What you wrote implies that you took up weight-lifting classes in middle school. If that is untrue, its not Tazzy's or my fault; Your original post was not made clear enough. If we were to post the original message as a poll, and ask when the person voting thought you took up weight-lifting classes, I believe most would state 'Middle School'. As you give no evidence you took up such a class at any other time in your education. Finally, insulting people for your mistakes is a bit....over the line.... You know, if that one post existed in a vacuum, with no other subsequent posts or conversation, you might have a point. However, as the subsequent posts elaborated on that summary, I'd say things were very clear. It was her mistake to assume that each post existed on its own and that I was "changing my story," when in fact I was just providing additional details. See claims like hers that I'm "changing my story" is really all she can default to because it's unfathomable to her that my stance on this issue could be what it is if I was been bullied in school and had to stand up for myself. See, simply taking my word that I was bullied doesn't help her position that I am "just stirring things up." So she has to claim that I was never bullied and claim as her "evidence" that I'm "changing my story" based off one post. So yes, the problem is on her end. I do have the stance I do and I hold that stance after having been bullied and standing up to those bullies. The rest of this is just smokescreen antics at their finest.

joether -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 2:40:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: joether You can state it how you wish, DM. What you wrote implies that you took up weight-lifting classes in middle school. If that is untrue, its not Tazzy's or my fault; Your original post was not made clear enough. If we were to post the original message as a poll, and ask when the person voting thought you took up weight-lifting classes, I believe most would state 'Middle School'. As you give no evidence you took up such a class at any other time in your education. Finally, insulting people for your mistakes is a bit....over the line.... You know, if that one post existed in a vacuum, with no other subsequent posts or conversation, you might have a point. However, as the subsequent posts elaborated on that summary, I'd say things were very clear. It was her mistake to assume that each post existed on its own and that I was "changing my story," when in fact I was just providing additional details. See claims like hers that I'm "changing my story" is really all she can default to because it's unfathomable to her that my stance on this issue could be what it is if I was been bullied in school and had to stand up for myself. See, simply taking my word that I was bullied doesn't help her position that I am "just stirring things up." So she has to claim that I was never bullied and claim as her "evidence" that I'm "changing my story" based off one post. So yes, the problem is on her end. I do have the stance I do and I hold that stance after having been bullied and standing up to those bullies. The rest of this is just smokescreen antics at their finest. You failed in three paragraphs to set the record straight. That is about as simple as I can make it. Ever heard of the expression "If your in a hole, stop digging'? I dont know your personal history, so pardon me if I get it wrong in retelling it.... "Ok, what I said was not totally correct, so allow me to set the record straight. I was bullied in middle school. When I was about to venture into high school, I took weight lifting classes in the summer of my freshman year. In those three or four short months I went from being scrawny to decently muscular. Showing alittle muscle made the bully think twice about picking on me in the future." I was pointing out that you were attacking Tazzy over some 'reading comprehension' when it appeared what you stated would lead me to the same conclusion. Simply stating the record straight would save you alot of headaches. If your not comfortable with posting your life's history, send a private message. Tazzy doesnt bite....much....[:D]

tazzygirl -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 4:21:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Good for you! Not every middle school has one. Not every kid who is bullied can bench press. And not every bully backs down. Blaming the victim for the crimes of the bully is just another form of bullying. I'm not blaming the victims. I'm blaming those who don't show them how to stand up for themselves and who coddle them by telling them to rat out those mean kids (assuring they only get bullied more for being a snitch). http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4097017 He didnt clear it up here... where I specifically pointed out his statement... In fact, his back peddling didnt start until two of his posts later. And of course I dont bite... much.... only as much as you guys enjoy [;)]

DarqueMirror -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 4:53:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether You failed in three paragraphs to set the record straight. Your failure to grasp a simple concept doesn't equate to my failure to "set the record straight." There's no record to set straight. I've plainly stated what happened. I can't and won't spoon feed the illiterate. quote: ORIGINAL: joether "Ok, what I said was not totally correct, so allow me to set the record straight. I was bullied in middle school. When I was about to venture into high school, I took weight lifting classes in the summer of my freshman year. In those three or four short months I went from being scrawny to decently muscular. Showing alittle muscle made the bully think twice about picking on me in the future." Nope. quote: ORIGINAL: joether I was pointing out that you were attacking Tazzy over some 'reading comprehension' when it appeared what you stated would lead me to the same conclusion. Simply stating the record straight would save you alot of headaches. If your not comfortable with posting your life's history, send a private message. Tazzy doesnt bite....much....[:D] I wasn't "attacking" anyone. I was commenting on her lack of reading comprehension...which you seem to share.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 4:56:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4097017 He didnt clear it up here... where I specifically pointed out his statement... I didn't "clear it up there" because there was nothing to "clean up." You didn't mention in that reply that you didn't understand what I meant. You just continued right along with the conversation, suggesting (incorrectly) to those you were addressing that you comprehended what they what was said. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl In fact, his back peddling didnt start until two of his posts later. God I love the inevitable "back peddling" accusations. They really show who can comprehend and who cannot. Let me try and help you both out -- Message boards are like a internet "conversation." Suppose the three of us were sitting face-to-face talking and I said my original comment about the bullying and weight-lifting. If you both didn't understand, I'd see a look on your face suggesting that. After you asked for more details or clarification, you'd get it. That wouldn't be "back peddling" it would be continuing the conversation and clearing up something you obviously misunderstood. Again...what I said was perfectly plain english. So, if you got the wrong idea, you should have ASKED for clarification before continuing the conversation as though you knew what you were talking about. To FAIL to ask for clarification is roughly akin to simply smiling and nodding in a face-to-face conversation even though you have no clue what was just said.

tazzygirl -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 5:09:40 AM)
~yawns You are still trying. and failing. Have a wonderful day!

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 8:19:07 AM)
The other problem with the whole "stand up for yourself" attitude is that it just isn't practical. If you are a 105 lb geek being picked on by the 200 pound football player, how are you going to stand up for yourself, short of taking a weapon to school? Not exactly a positive approach. Parents and the schools do need to be more actively involved, and there needs to be substantial penalties for parents who take the attitude that their kids' bullying behavior is just kids being kids. Parents need to teach their kids that not only is bullying not OK, witnessing it in silence isn't ok either. The schools need to intervene, too. A young girl here recently hung herself. When the story was first reported, no one seemed to know her motive. The school provided grief counseling and her schoolmates held a candlelight vigil, the little assholes. Then it came out that this girl was the victim of nonstop, widespread bullying that no one did a thing about. She desperately changed her hair, lost weight, changed the way she dressed, in an attempt to stop the cruelty, until finally, she gave up. A co worker treating another like that is unproductive and wouldn't be tolerated in a work situation. Why do we put up with it in schools?

DarqueMirror -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 8:52:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl You are still trying. and failing. Have a wonderful day! And you're still illiterate. Have a wonderful day yourself!

DarqueMirror -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 8:55:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet The other problem with the whole "stand up for yourself" attitude is that it just isn't practical. If you are a 105 lb geek being picked on by the 200 pound football player, how are you going to stand up for yourself, short of taking a weapon to school? As I said before, the act of standing up for yourself doesn't guarantee you won't get hurt or that you'll win and be the hero. It just means you take a stand and show the bully you aren't an easy target. I didn't "win" all the times I stood up for myself. But I made damned sure that the bully felt some pain too. quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Not exactly a positive approach. Neither is telling them to run, hide and taddle. Because they do that, and the next day they get bullied just as hard...perhaps in a place the teachers can't see/get to. Then where's the victim going to be? quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet She desperately changed her hair, lost weight, changed the way she dressed, in an attempt to stop the cruelty, until finally, she gave up. Those last three words are the key in that statement. She. gave. up. She let them win. She tried to appease them, like Churchill to Hitler...and it didn't work.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 9:07:10 AM)
Whatever DM. As a parent, I was not interested in sending my kid to a place where they were physically injured and tortured by their peers. I think we have more of a responsibility to our kids than that. Bottom line, if I were the 105 weakling, I would opt to take the weapon to school,rather than engage in a quixotic attempt to fight back and cause the bully a little pain, little being the operative word. Your school years sound like they were very sad. I am sorry. Yes, the poor girl gave up. Guess she should have shot up the fucking lunch room, instead, and taken a few of the little assholes with her.

papassion -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 10:22:56 AM)
Sometimes it takes a threat of a lawsuit to make the school adminstators do their job to protect all students. We had a situation in our school district (Johnstown school district) where a lesbian was giving unwanted advances to another female student. The school officials were informed and did nothing. (the school administrator, at the time, is gay. I don't know if this had anything to do with no action taken by the school) The parents got tired of the "no action" by the school and got a lawyer and went to the police. The (Johnstown) police investigated and the lesbian was charged with assault. Thats how bad it got. The lame excuse the school administrators gave for their intolerable "ignorning" the situation, was they didn't want to give the impression of being biased against the lesbian student! Can any normal person see how correcting a bully, (gay or straight) would be seen as bias? These administrators should have been fired en mass for such stupid liberal logic! I had the court case number here somewhere but don't know how the lawsuit went. Anyone who thinks this is bullshit and knows how to find it, can go to our paper, Tribdem.com (The Johnstown Tribune Democrat ) Johnstown, Pennsylvania

tazzygirl -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 10:24:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl You are still trying. and failing. Have a wonderful day! And you're still illiterate. Have a wonderful day yourself! lol.. you wish I were. Problem is, I am not, and that pisses you off when you are caught in your own web of lies.

subrob1967 -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 11:37:53 AM)
FR You want to end bullying? Simple enough, teach the kids over the internet. They'll never have to leave their house, or get picked on, and just think of the billions we could save by eliminating schools, and way overpaid administrators! One teacher per fifteen students, is your answer.

tazzygirl -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 11:41:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 FR You want to end bullying? Simple enough, teach the kids over the internet. They'll never have to leave their house, or get picked on, and just think of the billions we could save by eliminating schools, and way overpaid administrators! One teacher per fifteen students, is your answer. I did homeschool my son past the 6th grade. Wasnt because of bullies, he learned to handle them with help of karate.

CastleRock32 -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 11:56:28 AM)
DM: You say you aren't blaming the victims, but your suggestion for solving the problem is for the victims to change. If the discussion were about rape, and you suggested that to avoid rape, scantily dressed women should wear more modest attire, that would be called blaming the victim. Don't you see how insulting it is to say that the solution is for the peaceful child to learn violence? I'm not saying anti-bullying programs always work, and I'm sure as hell not saying that kids should not be taught (as in, on an ongoing basis, as part of growth) to learn independent problem solving. Adults are around b/c kids don't know everything about being adults. And in this case, the fault is NOT with the victimized kids. It's with the bullies. You indicated that someone made a better victim by not becoming like their bullies. Your statements indicate that you did in fact turn into a bully yourself. After all, in your mind, becoming like your bullies is what made you less of an "easy target" right? Your accusation of cowardice towards KIDS who kill themselves due to bullying further shows this. I actually believe you that you were bullied. I simply find your response to it (to become a bully yourself) sad, unfortunately typical, and a demonstration of why OTHER means of handling bullies are desperately needed.

Moonhead -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 1:57:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CastleRock32 I'm sure as hell not saying that kids should not be taught (as in, on an ongoing basis, as part of growth) to learn independent problem solving There have been a few objections to that one raised, often from the right. The loathsome Jerry Pournelle once observed that if you give a bunch of novices fencing gear and leave them to it, they'll quickly problem solve their way to so many bad habits that they'll never be able to learn to fence worth a damn...

thishereboi -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 3:43:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Yes, you did. You said your parents were bullies. Ohhhhh another illiterate one. Please show me where I said that my parents were bullies. I'd love to see that. You're right, I read it wrong. quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I am also guessing that is why you decided to start lifting weights so you could defend yourself. You'd be wrong. I stared lifting weights because it was the only gym class that appealed to me in high school. quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi And now you think all kids should be raised with this approach? Sorry, but to me it's just sad. What's sad to me is how we're pussifying the country by telling our kids to run and hide from or rat on anyone who "hurts their feelings." Pretty soon, we'll see penalty flags thrown and charges filed in an NFL game for "trash talk." That's right, teach them that kicking someones ass is the answer to all their problems. That should help[8\|]

angelikaJ -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 4:03:59 PM)
DM, You assert that suicide is the coward's choice. It isn't. It happens when the pain someone is in exceeds a person's resources for coping with that pain.

Kaliko -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/23/2012 5:18:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 FR You want to end bullying? Simple enough, teach the kids over the internet. They'll never have to leave their house, or get picked on, and just think of the billions we could save by eliminating schools, and way overpaid administrators! One teacher per fifteen students, is your answer. Cyberbullying.

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