RE: Bullying... the results

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Kaliko -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 3:36:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 FR You want to end bullying? Simple enough, teach the kids over the internet. They'll never have to leave their house, or get picked on, and just think of the billions we could save by eliminating schools, and way overpaid administrators! One teacher per fifteen students, is your answer. Cyberbullying. In class, in front of the teacher? I doubt it. No, cyberbullying doesn't often take place in front of the teacher. Yet schools are responsible for addressing it, just the same. If you mean home schooling, that would be a different story, but I gathered that you meant distance teaching over the internet, from a classroom with a teacher, to a "class" of students, each at their home.

Kaliko -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 3:47:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko Cyberbullying. true enough, which seems to be even worse than face to face, psychologically speaking. And which is so much easier to stop. Every social media outlet has privacy settings. Email can be deleted. Cyberbullying is not so much easier to stop. Email is the least of the problems. A student can avoid Facebook, yes. (To his detriment, I believe, but that would be another topic.) But his peers may not. And his peers may post hateful things about him. And his peers print out those postings, and repeat those postings verbally. Stories spread off the internet just like they do on it. I've seen it. Over and over. Cyberbullying is bullying that one doesn't need muscles and brawn for and comes with an automatic audience and a mechanism for feedback. The internet is a spawning ground for bullying.

tazzygirl -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 4:05:28 AM)
quote: This is amazing. I think having a martial arts program come into the school and teach things could be a great way to reduce/eliminate bullying. What your son and his friends made of that opportunity is just awesome, and made me regain a little hope in humanity. Thanks for that! Thank you for actually seeing what I was trying to say.... and what DM was trying to twist. Creating an atmosphere among many students is far different than telling a child "stick up for yourself". Too bad DM simply cant see that.

joether -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 4:13:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: CastleRock32 Absolutely. I'm not remotely opposed to people learning to defend themselves. But we (or at least I and I HOPE you as well) don't suggest to society that the solution to rape is for the victims to learn to defend themselves. The SOLUTION to the problem is not to require the victim to change. Yes, in individual cases this can help. That doesn't mean it is the way we should respond to bullying as a society. It's easier to decrease the victim pool by teaching everyone self-defense than it is to change every bully. So, if everyone learns some self-defense, POOF, no more bullies? That is the most silly, ignorant, and naive thing I've read on this thread so far. You actually believe that if someone knows self-defense they can handle a bully? How about the bully's friends? Does your self-defense teach you how to deal with eight or nine bullies at once? How about four on one odds? What happens when the bully is a good student of martial art's (i.e. the old 'Karate Kid' movie)? You really have this silly attitude, that if THAT doesnt work, one has to 'ratchet up' the level of potential violence. This creates a micro-scale 'arms race', with each side growing increasingly hostile with arms, armor, numbers, and anger. How does this possibly work in the victims favor? How does the story usually end? quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: CastleRock32 This is appalling and not even logical. Even in actual battle, there are many non-cowardice reasons to retreat. But we aren't talking about war. We aren't even talking about adults who (ideally) have learned how to deal with emotions but are overwhelmed. We are talking about kids whose life turns into hell and they can't make it stop. When you call them cowards, that IS a form of blaming the victim. And yet it's still called the "easy way out" in every suicide prevention class or show I've ever seen. You have absolutely no clue what drives a child to suicide when bullies are beating on them. In fact, by simply stating that, I view you less of a person and more of the very bully that this thread is talking about. You seen to enjoy spreading chaos, hated, anger, terror, and suffering. All the things bullies enjoy. Are you an adult bully? Has your 'emotional' level not matured enough? Do you enjoy bullying others in a BDSM session? What drives them to suicide? When their mind is tired of fighting the anger, sadden and sorrow and their body is just numb to the pain. Its a horrible tragedy and often missed before its to late because most people are not aware of the warning signs. But what do you care? You seem to 'get off' on other people's suffering in life. quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: CastleRock32 This statement makes me think you really have no concept of what cyberbullying is. It isn't about someone hacking your facebook account and sending you mean emails (necessarily). It is about a concerted effort perpetuated by a group of your peers (at an age when peers are EVERYTHING) to make every aspect of your life hell. They can do it to you no matter when you are now, and for a kid, it is unbearable. Privacy settings don't prevent someone from setting up a fake FB account for you and causing humiliation. If you have no online presence, it makes it really hard to be cyber-bullied. Any attempt to cyber-bully someone who doesnt go online kinda falls on deaf ears, dont you think? The whole point of bullying is to get the fear reaction from the victim. If the victim doesnt see it, they can't give the bullies the reaction they want. Hell everyone here is advocating having the victims run and taddle. Why not just have them stay offline and ignore it? Yes, you REALLY have no idea what cyberbullying actually is? This generation of kids (and the one before it) are so tied into technology as to be almost seamless when compared to generations before that. Some bullies are pretty crafty in their torments of victims. Does one have to be 'online' to be a victim of cyber-bullying? Not really. quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: CastleRock32 Deleting emails doesn't prevent bullies from posting video online of them beating you up. No, but it does prevent you from seeing them. Also, if they are physically beating you up, that's not really cyber bullying. Wow, Mr. 'Humanitarian' your just so 'thoughtful' and 'caring' of those victims. The victims will see those videos sooner or later. The bully simply attacks them again, grapples them, shows the video and makes ANOTHER video of them watching their first humilation and defeat, before 'Youtubing' it. And he'll make sure to posted it for all the kids to see, further undermining the victim's credibility and existance in the school.

Kaliko -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 4:17:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 FR You want to end bullying? Simple enough, teach the kids over the internet. They'll never have to leave their house, or get picked on, and just think of the billions we could save by eliminating schools, and way overpaid administrators! One teacher per fifteen students, is your answer. Another point on this...though I do feel that this is the way that education is going regardless, to do so is the equivalent of running and hiding from physical bullying situations, no? Perhaps your post was more tongue-in-cheek than I'm taking it, but I did reflect a bit more on it. I can see the initial appeal of this type of teaching environment to end some social struggles kids have, but if it were to be anything more than hypothetical, it would be a drastic change to just about everyone's lifestyle and educational process, done at the mercy of the few. Now that is control.

joether -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 4:35:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ DM, You assert that suicide is the coward's choice. It isn't. It happens when the pain someone is in exceeds a person's resources for coping with that pain. And thus they are afraid to go on, and think it's the only way out. It's retreating from life. Ie...a coward's choice. How much pain and suffering have you EVER been in? I'm guessing the most you have experienced is a paper cut. Your are entirely oblivious to the reality such a person suffers through. You lack wisdom, kindness, compassion, and even mature thought. You also lack experience. If you actually had any of these....human...qualities, I know you would never speak on such things. I've never met an individual whom had these qualities and STILL behaved as you do. And I've met quite a number of people in life. But keep posting as you are. You simply undermine your credibility and worth as a person with each post. In light of evidence to this point, I'd have to seriously ask if you actually know and live by the concept of 'SSC' in BDSM?

Kaliko -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 4:37:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether In light of evidence to this point, I'd have to seriously ask if you actually know and live by the concept of 'SSC' in BDSM? Well, to be fair, I don't believe everybody does. That doesn't make them nuts.

angelikaJ -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 4:57:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ DM, You assert that suicide is the coward's choice. It isn't. It happens when the pain someone is in exceeds a person's resources for coping with that pain. And thus they are afraid to go on, and think it's the only way out. It's retreating from life. Ie...a coward's choice. Fear has nothing to do with it except in the case of terminal illness. Pain is pain, whether it is emotional or physical in it's origin. Fear is about the future, suicide (for the most part) is about the immediate present; the pain someone is in now. It is why (to my knowledge) the most effective ways of preventing suicide are A) Getting them to postpone that decision B) Work on their coping skills Edit: verb tense

Kirata -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 6:01:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether How much pain and suffering have you EVER been in? I'm guessing the most you have experienced is a paper cut. Your are entirely oblivious to the reality such a person suffers through. You lack wisdom, kindness, compassion, and even mature thought. You also lack experience. If you actually had any of these....human...qualities, I know you would never speak on such things. I've never met an individual whom had these qualities and STILL behaved as you do. And I've met quite a number of people in life. But keep posting as you are. You simply undermine your credibility and worth as a person with each post. In light of evidence to this point, I'd have to seriously ask if you actually know and live by the concept of 'SSC' in BDSM? You sound like a professional victim whose forte is being a verbal bully when he doesn't get any sympathy. Back to facts: Bullies don't pick on just anyone. They engage in a "shopping process" to find their victims. Studies have shown that, "at the beginning of the school year, when children do not know each other well, about 22 percent of children report having a victimaztion experience... but by the end of the school year, only 8 percent of kids wind up being regularly singled out by bullies." Targets of bullies have identifiable characteristics. They tend to be "pervasively nonassertive" in social situations, seldom making overtures or initiating conversations. Often this results in them having only a small social circle. And when they are bullied, it grows smaller. "No one likes a bully, but no one likes a victim either." A failure or inability to stick up for oneself makes other kids uncomfortable, and the victim's social contacts tend to erode. Bullies are created in the home. "Studies suggest that aggression begins in the early caregiver-child interaction." And while it is almost a cliche to indict testosterone, "boys who were rated (by peers and teachers) most physically aggressive at ages six to 12 had lower testosterone levels at age 13 than ordinary peers." Bullying is not hormone-driven, it is learned. The best defenses against a being targeted by a bully are assertiveness and self-confidence. But while these qualities can be encouraged in "pervasively nonassertive" children, the fact remains that victims tend to be smaller and weaker than bullies (who choose them partly for those qualities). Thus, immediate and decisive adult intervention is necessarily the critical factor in curbing the behavior and protecting its victims. > Quotations in the above post are from a long but excellent 1995 article in Psychology Today. K.

LadyPact -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 6:48:06 AM)
As far as the settlement goes, I completely understand why the school district paid. Anybody working within a progressive discipline structure, whether that be a school or a place of employment with such a policy, knows that you document everything. Even if you just do a verbal counseling, you log it. The (at the time) twelve year old created a paper trail and the school did not. That's just not very bright on the school's part. The 4.2 mil? I can't say much about the amount. The kid may have additional medical expenses for the rest of his life. Yes, it really does come from the taxpayer and schools are financially burdened the way it is, but expensive lessons like this tend to teach the faculty at other schools as well. On the subject of bullying itself, I think it is harder on kids now than it was just a few decades ago. There really isn't a reprieve because between the bullying that happens at the school and what happens on line, for some of these kids, it probably feels like it never stops. I think that is what is pushing some of these kids over the edge. There's another quote about suicide that I think is a better application in this discussion. "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." As adults, we can understand that concept. To a kid, it's not so easy. We're talking about children who, at their maturity level, live completely in the here and now. Plus, when it's a case of someone who has already been bullied for a certain length of time, it's really hard to convince them that it's not going to last forever. Schools are going to have to take a more proactive approach on this issue. They aren't dealing with the old fashioned "there's going to be a fight after school" idea of bullies that came from years past. It's a lot more complex now.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 8:40:59 AM)
Your blame the victim attitude is just as distressing as the parents who blow off their child's bullying behavior as "normal." As for your comment about kids learning the skills to handle it on their own, I believe that by the time people are 30 and their brains are fully formed ( you do know kids' brains are different, right?)' they are more civilized then when they are in school. Not to mention that no employer would tolerate the level of bullying that goes on in schools. It would be too unproductive. Not to mention that adults would be arrested for committing the level of battery that commonly goes on at schools. And I stand by my statement. I did not send my kids to school to be picked on and physically attacked. It is not conducive to learning. I certainly don't want them to learn to look the other way when behavior like that is going on, which seems to be what many school systems are unconsciously teaching their students. So I am glad for you that you were the proverbial 98 lb weakling that got sand kicked in his face until he took a Charles Atlas course and could fight back, while all the while believing he was somehow superior. That approach is not going to work for kids who are smaller, weaker or physically handicapped in some way. In other words, the usual victims of bullying. Nor would it work for the kind of verbal bullying that girls more commonly engage in, and which drove the girl I mentioned earlier to suicide. Please tell me you aren't a parent. Please. quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Whatever DM. As a parent, I was not interested in sending my kid to a place where they were physically injured and tortured by their peers. Really? What are you going to do when your kids are 30 and still having trouble? Gonna fight all their battles for them? Or would you rather they had the skills to handle things on their own? quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet I think we have more of a responsibility to our kids than that. Bottom line, if I were the 105 weakling, I would opt to take the weapon to school,rather than engage in a quixotic attempt to fight back and cause the bully a little pain, little being the operative word. Which would make you no better than them.

joether -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 3:30:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata You sound like a professional victim whose forte is being a verbal bully when he doesn't get any sympathy. Back to facts: Bullies don't pick on just anyone. They engage in a "shopping process" to find their victims. Studies have shown that, "at the beginning of the school year, when children do not know each other well, about 22 percent of children report having a victimaztion experience... but by the end of the school year, only 8 percent of kids wind up being regularly singled out by bullies." Targets of bullies have identifiable characteristics. They tend to be "pervasively nonassertive" in social situations, seldom making overtures or initiating conversations. Often this results in them having only a small social circle. And when they are bullied, it grows smaller. "No one likes a bully, but no one likes a victim either." A failure or inability to stick up for oneself makes other kids uncomfortable, and the victim's social contacts tend to erode. Bullies are created in the home. "Studies suggest that aggression begins in the early caregiver-child interaction." And while it is almost a cliche to indict testosterone, "boys who were rated (by peers and teachers) most physically aggressive at ages six to 12 had lower testosterone levels at age 13 than ordinary peers." Bullying is not hormone-driven, it is learned. The best defenses against a being targeted by a bully are assertiveness and self-confidence. But while these qualities can be encouraged in "pervasively nonassertive" children, the fact remains that victims tend to be smaller and weaker than bullies (who choose them partly for those qualities). Thus, immediate and decisive adult intervention is necessarily the critical factor in curbing the behavior and protecting its victims. > Quotations in the above post are from a long but excellent 1995 article in Psychology Today. Let me see if I get this straight. Your basing your entire set of arguements on a document that was published more than seventeen years ago? Your a smart guy, Kirata (or at least I think you are). Wouldn't it be wise to use multiple sources (each well documented from credible origins) that are more 'up-to-date' within the last five years? Seventeen years is a long time to discount anything new from being learned, studied and/or researched. I too could play the game of 'I heard a study from [insert name of University or College] that said....' and not source the information as well. Its a dishonorable practice to use in discussions. When the nature of that discussion is 'kids being bullied', wouldn't it be wise to be both mindful and considerate? Bullies, like the victims they prey upon come in all sorts of ages, sizes, colors, upbrings, and even current economic health. There is no 'one size fits all' when dealing with bullies, because they are as individual in nature as their victims. A wise educator, school admin and parent would approach the issue knowing this. Unfortunately most end up doing unwise actions that lead to a situation that was worst than before. I'm not a professional medical or psychological doctor. I just have experience and observation to go with on this topic. From what I understand of your arguements, you have not clearly sat down and thought on it beyond a very basic point of view. Why do the students stand on the 'side-lines' when they are taught to stand up for the little guy? Could there be more than just one bully? Could those bullies be working together from different angles in a coordinated conspiracy to undermine the victim's ability to defend and retailate? Do students whom are by-standers step in to help the bully for fear that they'll be next? Or that the students become 'inspired' to help the bully? Tell me you have an indepth answer for each of these questions? If your going to bash me as some sort of 'professional victim', I guess I would have to accuse you of being some sort of 'professional bully'. But to answer your question, I'm not a professional victim. I really don't care if you think that I am or not.

Kirata -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 3:55:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether I too could play the game of 'I heard a study from [insert name of University or College] that said....' and not source the information as well. Its a dishonorable practice to use in discussions.... I'm not a professional victim. I regret that you felt victimized by my "dishonorable practice" of not citing my source. If I could still edit the post, I would change the link's font size to 4 and bold it for you. K.

CastleRock32 -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 5:42:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: CastleRock32 Absolutely. I'm not remotely opposed to people learning to defend themselves. But we (or at least I and I HOPE you as well) don't suggest to society that the solution to rape is for the victims to learn to defend themselves. The SOLUTION to the problem is not to require the victim to change. Yes, in individual cases this can help. That doesn't mean it is the way we should respond to bullying as a society. It's easier to decrease the victim pool by teaching everyone self-defense than it is to change every bully. But it's not ethical. So I guess we may just have to disagree with our goals in stopping. I insist on a way that doesn't put blame on the victim. You claim not to be doing so (and I don't think you even intend to), but can't acknowledge how your arguments do that, b/c you are so convinced your arguments work. I will point out you have yet to address the people who are physically less strong (you certainly seem intelligent enough to understand hormones contribute to this, so it's not in a child's control), people who are being bullied to the point of suicide with words, and those who are slightly or fully handicapped. In other words, you do not seem to be addressing the victims who aren't like you. The problem is, I think you do feel like you've addressed them: Your solution is they need to get tougher. You don't see how that wouldn't work for a lot of kids. quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: CastleRock32 This is appalling and not even logical. Even in actual battle, there are many non-cowardice reasons to retreat. But we aren't talking about war. We aren't even talking about adults who (ideally) have learned how to deal with emotions but are overwhelmed. We are talking about kids whose life turns into hell and they can't make it stop. When you call them cowards, that IS a form of blaming the victim. And yet it's still called the "easy way out" in every suicide prevention class or show I've ever seen. What the hell suicide prevention classes have you been taking???? God, please don't try your technique with someone actually contemplating suicide. angelikaJ is correct about the best practices for handling suicidal people: quote: A) Getting them to postpone that decision B) Work on their coping skills As a mental health professional, I have NEVER observed any (taught) method of dealing with suicide that involves viewing suicide as the easy or coward's way out. Because it simply isn't. Even when we are talking about adults. And we're talking about kids. Others addressed your thought re cyberbullying better than I could have. I'm beginning to think your arguments are simply outdated, in that you do not recognize that what kids face today is different than what kids faced 20-40 years ago. And within the last 10 years, it has become simply unrealistic to expect any adolescent to stay disconnected from the Internet. They have a presence there starting well before junior high, and therefore well before they see any need to avoid it so they don't get bullied. And, again, why should the victim have to avoid an important social networking avenue to appease the bully? I don't get it, you seem like a literate, intelligent being. But you completely misunderstand the issue of bullying and what kids face.

subrob1967 -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 5:55:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 FR You want to end bullying? Simple enough, teach the kids over the internet. They'll never have to leave their house, or get picked on, and just think of the billions we could save by eliminating schools, and way overpaid administrators! One teacher per fifteen students, is your answer. Another point on this...though I do feel that this is the way that education is going regardless, to do so is the equivalent of running and hiding from physical bullying situations, no? Perhaps your post was more tongue-in-cheek than I'm taking it, but I did reflect a bit more on it. I can see the initial appeal of this type of teaching environment to end some social struggles kids have, but if it were to be anything more than hypothetical, it would be a drastic change to just about everyone's lifestyle and educational process, done at the mercy of the few. Now that is control. That's the whole point isn't it? To protect and coddle the children so nothing ever bad happens to them, like losing in sports, or not winning a trophy? Progressives want it both ways, they want to coddle the kids, and make them all believe their all winners, but want the government responsible for the upbringing. Schools can either direct their resources into actually teaching, or protecting the kids from all forms of bad... They simply can't do both, no matter how much money is thrown at them. Either accept that home internet classes are the safest route, or deal with the fallout of kids getting picked on when in a social environment.

Owner59 -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 6:21:16 PM)
"And thus they are afraid to go on, and think it's the only way out. It's retreating from life. Ie...a coward's choice." Notice folks...the blaming of the victim and then the dehumanizing and degradation of them...all to make it ok to not give a fuck...........not care at all. "That's the whole point isn't it? To protect and coddle the children so nothing ever bad happens to them, like losing in sports, or not winning a trophy? Then there`s the exaggerations. Parents(their choice,mind your own business) wanted to get away from the unhealthy "winning isn`t everything...it`s the only thing" approach to sports and have a more kid friendly program and cons blew a mass blood vessel(and apparently haven`t recovered). But don`t have a problem with teaching kids that the earth is only 6-10 thousand years old......[8\|] "Progressives want it both ways, they want to coddle the kids, and make them all believe their all winners, but want the government responsible for the upbringing. Schools can either direct their resources into actually teaching, or protecting the kids from all forms of bad... They simply can't do both, no matter how much money is thrown at them." More bullshit......more extreme bullshitting......"want the government responsible for the upbringing".....why do cons regurgitate this bullshit? This irrational fear/loathing of government is con-lore. Normal parents just want their local school boards(big government[8\|]) to be sensitive to their concerns and address them as best as possible.Some cons just don`t like the trends and results. No wants "the government" to reshape the world or raise everyone`s kids......great show at concern tho[8\|].....sincere even.....[8\|]

tweakabelle -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 10:54:02 PM)
quote: That's the whole point isn't it? To protect and coddle the children so nothing ever bad happens to them, like losing in sports, or not winning a trophy? Progressives want it both ways, they want to coddle the kids, and make them all believe their all winners, but want the government responsible for the upbringing. Schools can either direct their resources into actually teaching, or protecting the kids from all forms of bad... They simply can't do both, no matter how much money is thrown at them. Either accept that home internet classes are the safest route, or deal with the fallout of kids getting picked on when in a social environment. Occasionally, a little part of me envies some people's capacity to see things in such black-and-white colours, to reduce everything to two simple options and them magically stumble across the universal solution that solves the issue for every single person in the world in all conceivable situations. This feeling usually lasts for about two seconds ... then I stop daydreaming. I've been suggesting for a while now that those who advocate the "toughen them up/blame the victim" approach to bullying are doing so for ideological reasons - their real purpose is to produce a specific type of person that conforms to their notion of what a person should be and how they should behave. So, these people propose this solution not because they are interested in solving the issue at hand but in order to confirm their world view, and their view of themselves. The ideological underpinnings of this flawed approach are self evident in this post. It doesn't matter that the proposed solution doesn't work for innumerable children, or that even if it works, the bullies simply move on and find another victim to bully. This selfish approach has nothing to do with educating children or with preventing bullying, it is all about confirming and replicating the warped narrow worldview of Rightwing ideology. Any child who (for whatever reason) fails to confirm this perspective is automatically labelled a 'failure', a 'loser' or a 'coward' and thrown to the trash heap. It's truly sad that these people are so trapped and insecure in their worldview that they need to use bullied children to validate themselves and their ideologies. If they stopped thinking about themselves for a moment, and considered the child's needs first, they would see the shortcomings of their proposals very quickly and investigate and adopt other strategies. Alas, that might be asking more than they can deliver, or perhaps more accurately, more than they feel they can afford to deliver.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 11:29:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaquin And again you're still arguing with such a narrow view on bullies. You seem to think that if you haven't come across some type then they don't exist. You fail to follow any course of action that doesn't support your idea of the solution. Tell me, what happens if you stand up to a bully, lift some weights, bulk up... and they just bring friends, or a bat, and beat you to a pulp? What happens when your "just stand up for yourself and don't show fear" spiel doesn't make bullies leave you be? Try to beat the snot out of them instead? What if a meteor strikes while the bully is messing with you? You can "what if" all you like, it doesn't change th undeniable fact that bullies will always exist. Best to learn how to deal with that than to try and train it out of them. quote: ORIGINAL: Jaquin Oh but you're not advocating violence right? You just expect every bully in the world to back down if you let them know you aren't afraid. Did the thought ever cross your mind that there are bullies out there who will just take that as a challenge to make you afraid? Some will back down. Some won't. I've said more than once (and will repeat it for you one more time) tha standing up for yourself doesn't mean you won't get your ass kicked. It just means you are not a passive victim who has to run and hide. quote: ORIGINAL: Jaquin Probably not, after all your bully experience seems to revolve around this one guy who backed down and left you alone when he knew you weren't afraid. One guy....how cute. quote: ORIGINAL: Jaquin Well let me tell you one of my stories. I knew this guy, real piece of work; short temper and major entitlement issues. Him and I, we never got along - I knew he was a piece of shit the moment he opened his mouth and started demanding stuff from people who owed him nothing. Well so one day some argument breaks out and there's a lot of shouting going on and, in your advocated "solution" to bullies: I stood my ground even when he was screaming in my face like he was a drill sergeant. Know what happened next time? Despite the fact that I stood up to him like you advise, and I let him know I wasn't afraid, he decided to use my head as a punching bag - nearly gave me a concussion. He got arrested for that, you think that stopped him? No, next guy who got in his way he stabbed. Arrested again. Stopped? Nope. Open your eyes DM, there aren't just little passive bullies who make some jokes and go all meek when someone says stop, there are some evil bastards out there who take defiance and opposition as a reason to be worse. And would trying to "teach him that he hurt your feelings" have stopped him? No.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 11:31:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko No, cyberbullying doesn't often take place in front of the teacher. Yet schools are responsible for addressing it, just the same. And what happens when there's no school official to run and taddle to? How does some deal with this when they are no longer in school? The answer to that question should be the answer to both.

DarqueMirror -> RE: Bullying... the results (4/24/2012 11:33:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko Cyberbullying is not so much easier to stop. Email is the least of the problems. A student can avoid Facebook, yes. (To his detriment, I believe, but that would be another topic.) But his peers may not. And his peers may post hateful things about him. And his peers print out those postings, and repeat those postings verbally. Stories spread off the internet just like they do on it. I've seen it. Over and over. And? I'm reminded of a phrase - "Those who are your friends won't believe the bullshit. Those who believe the bullshit aren't worth your friendship."

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