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RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 11:22:58 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		So, who is proposing "more harassment if they don't bow down to your demands"?  Where in the hell did you even come up with that?

You also don't seem to quite understand what "free speech" is.  Is someone proposing a law to shut down Rush?  Is someone proposing a law making it illegal for Angie's list to advertise on Rush?  No?  Well, then, their rights to Free Speech are fully intact.  And yes, I have the absolute right to object to speech I find offensive.  If that means telling an advertiser I won't buy his products, then why is that any of your business?
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

He has a right to spew bs.
You have a right to say you are not going to use angies list because of it.
and angies list has the right to say they don't care.

Now it could end there or you could threaten even more harassment if they don't bow down to your demands.

sorry but it still sounds like you are all for free speech as long as they say what you want them to say.


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 11:26:32 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Surely you arent saying this is any different. But, in case you are, could you explain how?

Yes, I am. It's different because of its purpose. Boycotting companies that profit from slave labor is one thing. Threatening their revenues in an effort to silence somebody whose ideas you don't like is an attack on freedom of speech.

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/24/2012 11:28:59 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 11:27:46 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And yes, I have the absolute right to object to speech I find offensive.  If that means telling an advertiser I won't buy his products, then why is that any of your business?




You see, in the real world without all the droolingly ignorant rhetoric, this here above is also free speech.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 11:28:16 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Surely you arent saying this is any different. But, in case you are, could you explain how?

Yes, I am. It's different because of its purpose. Boycotting companies that profit from slave labor is one thing. Threatening their revenues in order to silence somebody whose ideas you don't like is an attack on freedom of speech.

K.


Both are a result of a group of people being repressed.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 11:34:28 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Both are a result of a group of people being repressed.

C'mon, we're talking about speech here...

The only women that Rush gets to oppress are the ones who date him.

K.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 11:48:16 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Says you.  I say I can elect, or not elect, to buy a product or service for any goddamn reason I want.   Who are you to tell me what is an acceptable reason and what isn't?  Telling someone you won't buy their product because you don't like where they advertise is NOT an attack on freedom of speech, by even the loosest definition.  Why are you having such a problem understanding that?  Rush is free to spew all the BS he wants.   Angie's list is free to buy advertising anywhere they wish.  I am free to refuse to buy their products.  Who exactly is being "silenced" here?  Ain't America great?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Surely you arent saying this is any different. But, in case you are, could you explain how?

Yes, I am. It's different because of its purpose. Boycotting companies that profit from slave labor is one thing. Threatening their revenues in an effort to silence somebody whose ideas you don't like is an attack on freedom of speech.

K.





_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 12:03:24 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Says you. I say I can elect, or not elect, to buy a product or service for any goddamn reason I want.

Of course you can. I never said you couldn't. It's the intent, the purpose, the goal of this movement that I find troubling.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/24/2012 12:07:50 PM >

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 12:05:10 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Both are a result of a group of people being repressed.

C'mon, we're talking about speech here...

The only women that Rush gets to oppress are the ones who date him.

K.


I have to disagree with you. The more vocally acceptable something becomes, the more society tends to want to change as a result.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 12:12:27 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

It's the intent, the purpose, the goal of this movement that I find troubling.


My goal is to send a strong message that misogyny is unacceptable.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 12:15:15 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The more vocally acceptable something becomes, the more society tends to want to change as a result.

There is something to what you say. That's why the Chinese government operates on the principle that free speech is dangerous. But I thought that we were supposed to value it. Instead, we're trying to do what in the name of our ideals we have expressly forbidden our government to do.

K.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 12:31:32 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

It's the intent, the purpose, the goal of this movement that I find troubling.


My goal is to send a strong message that misogyny is unacceptable.

The message you're sending is that free speech stops at misogynistic remarks.

Are there any other freedoms you'd be content to see curtailed? I ask because, if the Religious Right organized a movement to threaten the revenues of companies that support programs containing speech or depictions objectionable to Bible-believing Christians, they would only be exercising their perfect right to buy from whomever they want.

Just like you.

K.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 12:40:24 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The more vocally acceptable something becomes, the more society tends to want to change as a result.

There is something to what you say. That's why the Chinese government operates on the principle that free speech is dangerous. But I thought that we were supposed to value it. Instead, we're trying to do what in the name of our ideals we have expressly forbidden our government to do.

K.


We do value it. We also value the political process. This is nothing but a form of protest, regardless of who is holding it and the why behind it. If it works, then it works. If it doesnt, then it doesnt. But there is nothing illegal or immoral about what is being done.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 12:42:59 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

It's the intent, the purpose, the goal of this movement that I find troubling.


My goal is to send a strong message that misogyny is unacceptable.

The message you're sending is that free speech stops at misogynistic remarks.

Are there any other freedoms you'd be content to see curtailed? I ask because, if the Religious Right organized a movement to threaten the revenues of companies that support programs containing speech or depictions objectionable to Bible-believing Christians, they would only be exercising their perfect right to buy from whomever they want.

Just like you.

K.


They have, and they do.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 12:51:23 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

The message you're sending is that free speech stops at misogynistic remarks.


Please refer back to http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4099385

For instance, neither the basic principle of freedom of speech nor the First Amendment says the following:

- you have the right to be heard (you have the right to speak, but nobody has an obligation to listen – the right to hear or not to hear is the unwritten right upon which it’s all based)

- you have the right not to be disagreed with (nope, just the opposite – freedom to speak exposes you to other people’s right to speak and subjects you to the judgment of the community)

- other people have an obligation to provide you a forum in which to speak (nope – you have a right to speak, but you have no right to speak in my yard)

- others have an obligation to sponsor or finance your speech (no – choosing to advertise or otherwise patronize your speech is a function of the other party’s freedom and they have the right to turn the faucet on and off as they wish and for whatever reasons they wish)

- you have a right to be free from the consequences of your speech (no – if you offend the community, they have the right to end their association with you; they have the right to speak freely to your sponsors, if you have any, and to ask said sponsor to cease supporting you)

- you have the right to be opposed only by those whose values mirror yours (duh, no – people have the right to oppose you for the noblest of reasons or the most despicable; if they opt for the latter, then they become subject to the rights of others within the community to speak and act against them)

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 12:55:29 PM   
Mupainurpleasure


Posts: 393
Joined: 4/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

It's the intent, the purpose, the goal of this movement that I find troubling.


My goal is to send a strong message that misogyny is unacceptable.

The message you're sending is that free speech stops at misogynistic remarks.

Are there any other freedoms you'd be content to see curtailed? I ask because, if the Religious Right organized a movement to threaten the revenues of companies that support programs containing speech or depictions objectionable to Bible-believing Christians, they would only be exercising their perfect right to buy from whomever they want.

Just like you.

K.

I respect the point. it is principled if you apply it to groups like FRC as well. i think it overstates what "free speech" means in much the same way citizens united did. No one is preventing him from speaking or silencing him or trying to. they are bringing commercial pressures to end a commercial program they find objectionable. He has no right of succuss as a broadcaster and broadcasters who offend ennough get hounded that isnt new. it's a tactic honed by a group Rush has strongly supported the FRC Rush has not critisized FRC for doing the same tactic for 20 yrs. We have the media research center who went after several media figures and shows for using the word slut and now defening Limbaugh. If Limbaugh hadnt been calling for a boycott of GM a few yrs ago he wouldnt come off as such a whiney victim. the same for so many critisizing this effort. the were all for it on different targets. You strike me as very libertarian so my assumption is you feel.felt the samme was about FRC and GM as this. I get so sick of the victim status and poor media persecuted cictim these clowns play whenever they cross the line and get called on it. I support Rushes rght to boycott GM and mine to boycott his sponsors. i dont like his product and he doesnt like GMs. poor Rush he ws s jooooking and in the next seconf but look at the joke AMahr told as if false equivalency is a defense for being a pig

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 1:00:04 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
I understand there are strong feelings involved, and I understand that people have a right to buy or not buy from whomever they want for whatever reason suits them. But if freedom of speech is one of our ideals, it remains my opinion that this effort to silence Rush belies it.

K.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 1:09:07 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I just find it pathetic that nobody who's bitching about poor Rush's freedom of speech being infringed had an issue with that. Particularly given that Rush was among those calling for the Dixie Chicks to be lynched back in the day.

How would you know? You weren't here then.

In fact, most of the people who are here now weren't. The freaking P&R forum wasn't even here!

And p-fucking-s, it's Nathalie Maines. Not "Gaines".

K.

If Rush didn't think that Nathalie Whatever had a right to free speech, why is his own an issue? That's a bit of a hole in the whole "PC censorship" argument.
(And just so we're clear on this one: his advertisers being petitioned to stop funding him has nothing to do with stopping free speech. Accepting the consequences of shooting one's mouth off is part of that, you'll find.)





_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 1:09:57 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Let's say people organized a boycott of businesses (just hypothetically) supporting the Westboro Baptist Church's demonstrations at soldier's funerals to promote their idea that tolerance of homosexuality causes troopers to be killed.

Would you say people are suppressing free speech? Or would you say the boycotters have a right to lawfully protest?

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 1:23:19 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Surely you arent saying this is any different. But, in case you are, could you explain how?

Yes, I am. It's different because of its purpose. Boycotting companies that profit from slave labor is one thing. Threatening their revenues in an effort to silence somebody whose ideas you don't like is an attack on freedom of speech.

If all Rush did was express ideas then he wouldn't be the subject of a boycott. How he speaks not what ideas he expresses is what this is about.




(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Tell Angie's List: drop your support of Rush Limbaugh - 4/24/2012 1:25:18 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Both are a result of a group of people being repressed.

C'mon, we're talking about speech here...

The only women that Rush gets to oppress are the ones who date him.

K.

You're really claiming Rush does not contribute to the conservative movements attempts to roll back the progress achieved by the feminist movement? Were you living under a rock for the last 2 years?

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 60
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